Kenny & Ozzie at it again

[Milkman delivers]

He'll get Pujols when he's 39

 

Ha, no doubt.

[greg775]

After reading Cowley's story, I don't see how anybody could want Kenny over Ozzie. Kenny sounds like an egomaniac with his restauranting and pretty boy attitude.

His acquisition of Teahen was a joke and his trade of Hudson for a similar type pitcher was equally dumb.

 

As far as Ozzie, he is an egomaniac as well. But at least he was a far better player than Kenny.

Give Ozzie another GM to work with.

 

Jerry's silence, however, makes me think he will back Kenny on this one. That's dumb. It's Ozzie over Kenny in this battle.

 

It is sad when former players come back to manage the team that made them famous. Because managers are hired to be fired and when Ozzie gets canned there will be hard feelings and he'll probably never be a Sox again.

Hal McRae was a great great Royal; now he never comes back after getting canned as manager.

To a lesser extent, Wathan was a very good Royal and though he works for the team now, there were hard feelings when he got canned.

It's why Frank White can't ever be manager.

Edited September 22, 2010 by greg775

[JorgeFabregas]

As far as Ozzie, he is an egomaniac as well. But at least he was a far better player than Kenny.

What the.

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake. As people say its a lot easier to can a manager than the players, its also easier to can a manager than a GM if you consider yours competent which I believe JR does. Hahn can't get the GM job while Ozzie is managing because Oney called Hahn names and believes you need to play the game professionally (I suppose like he did) to know the game and have the Guillen family's respect. I'm sure that's not Oney's original thought. He got it from his dad.

 

There's enough that has gone down where one of them probably has to go. I'm betting JR sticks with KW. He knows Ozzie will probably land in Florida with a longer committment and raise. He can probably have LaRussa back. Duncan comes with LaRussa, Cooper heads to Miami.

[Kyyle23]

I wish Frank Thomas would be GM. He is the best player the Sox ever had. He knows stuff

 

Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake. As people say its a lot easier to can a manager than the players, its also easier to can a manager than a GM if you consider yours competent which I believe JR does. Hahn can't get the GM job while Ozzie is managing because Oney called Hahn names and believes you need to play the game professionally (I suppose like he did) to know the game and have the Guillen family's respect. I'm sure that's not Oney's original thought. He got it from his dad.

 

There's enough that has gone down where one of them probably has to go. I'm betting JR sticks with KW. He knows Ozzie will probably land in Florida with a longer committment and raise. He can probably have LaRussa back. Duncan comes with LaRussa, Cooper heads to Miami.

 

This would make me very sad

[witesoxfan]

I wish Frank Thomas would be GM. He is the best player the Sox ever had. He knows stuff

 

 

 

This would make me very sad

 

I like Cooper, but Dave Duncan is superior to him. Like I said elsewhere, I think Gavin Floyd would be an incredible pitcher under Dave Duncan.

[Kyyle23]

I know Hawk wouldnt like Dave Duncan being with the Sox. He is not fond of him at all

[fathom]

After reading Cowley's story, I don't see how anybody could want Kenny over Ozzie. Kenny sounds like an egomaniac with his restauranting and pretty boy attitude.

His acquisition of Teahen was a joke and his trade of Hudson for a similar type pitcher was equally dumb.

 

As far as Ozzie, he is an egomaniac as well. But at least he was a far better player than Kenny.

Give Ozzie another GM to work with.

 

Yep, there was a lot of hard hitting, indisputable evidence in that article about Kenny Williams turning into a diva. And as for you saying Ozzie was a better player than Kenny....well, I think I've heard it all now. But hey, KW's kids are better athletes than Ozzie's!

[scenario]

I know Hawk wouldnt like Dave Duncan being with the Sox. He is not fond of him at all

 

Good. Send Hawk to Miami along with Ozzie.

 

Bring Rooney back to Chicago with LaRussa and company.

Edited September 23, 2010 by scenario

[Kyyle23]

I dont believe this quote at all from Ozzie

''It's not the first time [Williams is] going to fire somebody,'' Guillen said. ''I think Kenny has a very tough job, so does Jerry. If they say, 'We're not going to do this,' they're not going to hurt my feelings. They won't.''

[chisoxt]

Honestly, i contend that if the fan base doesn't like what Ozzie is doing, they should stop watching the f***ing White Sox.

You should apply for a job in the marketing department.

[BigSqwert]

But at least he was a far better player than Kenny.

That's an excellent point.

[greg775]

Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake. As people say its a lot easier to can a manager than the players, its also easier to can a manager than a GM if you consider yours competent which I believe JR does. Hahn can't get the GM job while Ozzie is managing because Oney called Hahn names and believes you need to play the game professionally (I suppose like he did) to know the game and have the Guillen family's respect. I'm sure that's not Oney's original thought. He got it from his dad.

 

There's enough that has gone down where one of them probably has to go. I'm betting JR sticks with KW. He knows Ozzie will probably land in Florida with a longer committment and raise. He can probably have LaRussa back. Duncan comes with LaRussa, Cooper heads to Miami.

 

As usual I agree with Dick Allen.

This is probably what will happen.

I think Jerry's backing the wrong guy in Kenny, though.

 

It really seems like a KW-Ozzie showdown and Reinsdorf really can't afford to have another year with the 2 at each other's throats and unable to work together.

 

Reinsdorf could meet with the two of them after offering Oz an extension and demand that they behave. But he's not dumb. It appears to be too late for that to have a chance at succeeding. s***, the 2 of them probably will flat out tell Jerry they can't work together.

Ozzie obviously thinks Kenny is incompetent and looks down on him since he was a s***ty ballplayer. Meanwhile Kenny if you read Cowley wants nothing to do with Ozzie, to just never be near him.

 

I would think what Dick Allen said is the likely scenario. Jerry knows Ozzie has a great landing spot in Florida. Oz will be let go and hook on with Florida (it may be embarrassing timing for a few weeks however; they'll probably call it a resignation to pursue other opportunities) and I bet Jerry will actually will change Kenny's job and keep him in the organization. It'll be a new GM and new manager rather than simply letting KW win this battle.

 

LaRussa for manager and LaRussa picks the GM Hope this works.

Only way I see KW and Oz returning is they assure Jerry of a truce, but how can Jerry trust that? If 2 people hate each other, they really can't work together. Only way to exist is to avoid each other, which the GM and manager can't do.

Edited September 23, 2010 by greg775

[Kyyle23]

As usual I agree with Dick Allen.

This is probably what will happen.

I think Jerry's backing the wrong guy in Kenny, though.

 

It really seems like a KW-Ozzie showdown and Reinsdorf really can't afford to have another year with the 2 at each other's throats and unable to work together.

 

Reinsdorf could meet with the two of them after offering Oz an extension and demand that they behave. But he's not dumb. It appears to be too late for that to have a chance at succeeding. s***, the 2 of them probably will flat out tell Jerry they can't work together.

Ozzie obviously thinks Kenny is incompetent and looks down on him since he was a s***ty ballplayer. Meanwhile Kenny if you read Cowley wants nothing to do with Ozzie, to just never be near him.

 

I would think what Dick Allen said is the likely scenario. Jerry knows Ozzie has a great landing spot in Florida. Oz will be let go and hook on with Florida (it may be embarrassing timing for a few weeks however; they'll probably call it a resignation to pursue other opportunities) and I bet Jerry will actually will change Kenny's job and keep him in the organization. It'll be a new GM and new manager rather than simply letting KW win this battle.

 

LaRussa for manager and LaRussa picks the GM Hope this works.

Only way I see KW and Oz returning is they assure Jerry of a truce, but how can Jerry trust that? If 2 people hate each other, they really can't work together. Only way to exist is to avoid each other, which the GM and manager can't do.

 

 

yeaaaaaaahNo

[greg775]

You don't think a cocky guy like Ozzie deep down looks down on Kenny cause he was a lousy ballplayer and Oz, though he tended to swing at every pitch which was maddening, was a good ballplayer?

 

Big league ballplayers are cocky. That's why Ozzie doesn't give a f*** what the fans say. He'll win any shouting match with KW or a fan, cause he's ozzie. a giu spoiled by the life and money accorded a big league starter/huge contributor.

 

He was a good ballplayer and I think you are naive to think Oz doesn't shove that back in KW's face. KW was a horrible ballplayer; Ozzie a good one.

 

I'm not saying a bad ballplayer can't be a good GM. I think it's something Ozzie can scoff at Kenny during their "discussions" about teams. Yes KW is his "boss" -- sort of.

Edited September 23, 2010 by greg775

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Ozzie is making this a public showdown. If he really wants to stay here, I think he's making a huge mistake.

 

This^_^ It's almost like he's trying to force them to let him go.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/09/22/10/Ozzie-G...&feedID=661

 

He wants a longterm deal.

 

[fathom]

You don't think a cocky guy like Ozzie deep down looks down on Kenny cause he was a lousy ballplayer and Oz, though he tended to swing at every pitch which was maddening, was a good ballplayer?

 

Big league ballplayers are cocky. That's why Ozzie doesn't give a f*** what the fans say. He'll win any shouting match with KW or a fan, cause he's ozzie. a giu spoiled by the life and money accorded a big league starter/huge contributor.

 

He was a good ballplayer and I think you are naive to think Oz doesn't shove that back in KW's face. KW was a horrible ballplayer; Ozzie a good one.

 

I'm not saying a bad ballplayer can't be a good GM. I think it's something Ozzie can scoff at Kenny during their "discussions" about teams. Yes KW is his "boss" -- sort of.

 

Please stop acting like Ozzie was Barry Bonds. I've never heard a worse argument than the one you're trying to make about Ozzie not respecting KW because of their athletic ability. If he really is that arrogant, then why the hell would you want him managing your favorite team?

[TheBigHurt]

I hope they're both done.

 

 

 

Thanks for 2005, Ozzie... but it's time to go.

 

 

 

Please stop acting like Ozzie was Barry Bonds. I've never heard a worse argument than the one you're trying to make about Ozzie not respecting KW because of their athletic ability. If he really is that arrogant, then why the hell would you want him managing your favorite team?

 

It's a lost cause, my friend...

Edited September 23, 2010 by TheBigHurt

[Mr. Wedmesday]

That's probably a good idea. When franchises become soap operas and have their own TV show they usually don't win.

Then again I never trust the credibility of any article that uses the words "unnamed sources".

 

I'm also tired of Kenny discussing contracts, "Oh I don't know, we may not be able to sign this guy".

 

Then there's Reinsdorf's silence. Maybe, just maybe, there may be bigger changes in ownership.

I think Kenny's way of setting up a ball club and Ozzie's philosophy of what a team should be like can't exist unless they are winning.

 

Ozzie has yet to learn the diplomacy of being a manager. Basically being too honest and not knowing when to shut up.

 

Although you clearly position an ownership change as a remote possibility, I'm curious as to what, if any, evidence there is to support your hypothesis.

 

It is certainly the most radical of the changes mentioned here, and I am frankly unsure how I feel about it.

 

I guess it would depend on who took over.....

[witesoxfan]

Although you clearly position an ownership change as a remote possibility, I'm curious as to what, if any, evidence there is to support your hypothesis.

 

It is certainly the most radical of the changes mentioned here, and I am frankly unsure how I feel about it.

 

I guess it would depend on who took over.....

 

There have been rumblings that his son is going to take over within the next few years. It's not insane to think about, considering Reinsdorf is 74 and George Steinbrenner was like 75 or 76 when he gave control of the Yankees to his sons.

[greg775]

Please stop acting like Ozzie was Barry Bonds. I've never heard a worse argument than the one you're trying to make about Ozzie not respecting KW because of their athletic ability. If he really is that arrogant, then why the hell would you want him managing your favorite team?

 

If I'm wrong I'd like a Sox insider to tell me there's no Ozzie superiority complex going on in regards to KW, largely in part because Ozzie will never listen to a guy who was 1/10th the ballplayer Oz was.

Oz could field; he hit better than average. He was a very good player. Big ego ballplayers inherently think they know a lot more about the game than somebody like KW who couldn't play the game.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I never discount egos from professional athletes.

 

The only way this can work in the future is if this season at all humbled Ozzie, and it probably didn't. The media doesn't help by not being more aggressive. He should be getting grilled about the Thome thing and his penchant for playing NL ball in an AL home run park. I despise Mariotti, but Oz would have been taken to task by this year's bad personnel decisions by Mariotti (Thome, Kotsay, Pierre, bunting). The media is OK but nobody has gone after Oz for his dumb GM decisions. If Oz lets another GM actually make all the personnel moves it might work in the future. Oz did prove this year he's not a good judge of the everday talent it takes to win.

 

Edited September 23, 2010 by greg775

[Chisoxfn]

I said it a long time ago, but I think Ozzie will be gone, Kenny will get promoted, and we'll see Hahn running the show as the GM. The question is would the Sox hire Cora or would they hire LaRussa.

[whitesoxfan99]

he hit better than average.

This is the most incorrect statement that has ever been posted on this message board. Ozzie Guillen was an incredibly bad hitter. In fact he was such a terrible hitter his career OBP was .287 and he never posted an OPS as high as Mark f***ing Kotsay's OPS is this year. And the guy also sucked at stealing bases yet tried to steal a ton early in his career anyway. Ozzie played good D and sucked at everything else on the baseball field.

[BigSqwert]

Ozzie played good D and sucked at everything else on the baseball field.

 

But apparently the only GMs he could work for and respect would be former triple crown contenders.

[NorthSideSox72]

Latest from Trib - like the DH decision, KW leaving this up to Ozzie.