Kenny & Ozzie at it again

[knightni]

Exactly. The 2005 team in and of itself was awesome. Ozzie Guillen's managerial performance in 2005 was also awesome. I just think both were flukes, and the grace period for them is over.

Him being the manager when all the starters got CGs in the playoffs and almost the entire roster became clutch hitters at one time was hardly his doing - at least his alone.

 

He was just in the right place at the right time when everything fell into place.

[whitesoxfan101]

Him being the manager when all the starters got CGs in the playoffs and almost the entire roster became clutch hitters at one time was hardly his doing - at least his alone.

 

He was just in the right place at the right time when everything fell into place.

 

Yeah but he made a lot of right moves that postseason, some of which Rock pointed out earlier. And he does deserve credit for actually letting the starters pitch all but 2/3 of an inning in the ALCS, a lot of guys wouldn't do that. While I think he's not a good manager, I can't begrudge him 2005.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah but he made a lot of right moves that postseason, some of which Rock pointed out earlier. And he does deserve credit for actually letting the starters pitch all but 2/3 of an inning in the ALCS, a lot of guys wouldn't do that. While I think he's not a good manager, I can't begrudge him 2005.

 

I agree, and I do think there would have been a lot of managers who would have "micromanaged," if you will, and gone to their bullpens in those situations. In fact, I'd say pretty much every manager would have done so. Ozzie as of right now would do it too if he were coaching in this year's playoffs. That Sox team had some crazy juju going on, but it's not as if Ozzie managed it poorly and the team made up for his mistakes.

[greg775]

Do YOU ever STOP reading newspapers and actually form a coherent thought BY YOURSELF???

 

This is why someone is telling you that you need a course in logic. Seriously, two people agree with you? That's your argument??? I'm sorry, but your lack of any sort of logic LITERALLY makes you sound like a 9 year-old.

 

BACK UP YOUR OWN OPINION!!! Stop throwing out empty statements because other people say things. I haven't even heard ONE thing from you about WHY you like Ozzie. I haven't heard ONE valid point to support ANYTHING you've ever said on this subject or any other. I'm sorry to be calling you out like this, but I'm going to be frank; your opinion is 100% worthless at this point because you spit in the face of facts and shoot down ideas simply because you like Ozzie... and don't even have a legitimate reason for it or for ANYTHING you say.

 

 

I'm starting to think you're an android. You appear to have NO thought process whatsoever. And if you are going to complain that I'm being mean and insulting, then prove me wrong and MAKE A VALID POINT OF SOME KIND to back up SOMETHING you say. PLEASE.

 

 

Jesus CHRIST...

 

 

Uh no.

 

Ozzie's career high is 4 home runs in a season and he managed a whole 28 in his 16 year career

 

Pierre has a high of 3 home runs and 14 in 11 years.

 

That's hardly more pop "by far."

 

 

1.) Calm down. I don't think everybody on here who knows me wants me to again list all the reasons why I like Ozzie. I have long ago gone into his unorthodox handling of the pitching staff in the 05 postseason, etc. His handling of players, not giving up on them, being a good manager of players and people some of the intangibles that many of you dismiss as meaningless in the world of sabermetrics.

You are out of control. People get on me for stating my comments over and over as whoever put the "ad nauseum" on my name on here would suggest.

 

I have resisted this time putting all the reasons I love Ozzie down ... again to give people a break. So I can't win as you lash out at me for not being "ad nauseum" this time. Geez.

 

As far as the newspapers, I actually wrote my comments before checking the trib and sun times. I saw supporters on there and pointed that out to you all. Sometimes I feel like Soxtalk people's opinions are the majority. Then I read the Trib columnists who are read by millions of people and realize my positions are actually commonplace. Ozzie is popular -- some might say wildly popular and not all are people as dumb as you deem me -- whether you believe it or not.

 

2.) How many doubles and triples did Ozzie have compared to Juan. I guess my memory could be fading but I remember his batting stance and the way he hacked at the ball and it reminds me much more of a real hitter with gap capability than weak Juan. If I'm wrong though, I'm wrong.

 

 

Finally you said "I haven't even heard ONE thing from you about WHY you like Ozzie. I haven't heard ONE valid point to support ANYTHING you've ever said on this subject or any other."

 

I say: How long have you been on here? Seriously longtimers have read my reasons why I like Ozzie. Are you crazy? A lot do have to do with intangibles like the way he deflects criticism off his players by stealing the headlines many times. I think he also has a feel for the game, not evidenced as well this year. Those are some reasons to go with my above mentioned reasons. I think you've lost it though. I guess if you want me to list 10 specifics I can find time to write an essay of sorts for you with specific examples, etc.

Edited September 24, 2010 by greg775

[TheBigHurt]

1.) Calm down. I don't think everybody on here who knows me wants me to again list all the reasons why I like Ozzie. I have long ago gone into his unorthodox handling of the pitching staff in the 05 postseason, etc. His handling of players, not giving up on them, being a good manager of players and people some of the intangibles that many of you dismiss as meaningless in the world of sabermetrics.

You are out of control. People get on me for stating my comments over and over as whoever put the "ad nauseum" on my name on here would suggest.

 

I have resisted this time putting all the reasons I love Ozzie down ... again to give people a break. So I can't win as you lash out at me for not being "ad nauseum" this time. Geez.

 

As far as the newspapers, I actually wrote my comments before checking the trib and sun times. I saw supporters on there and pointed that out to y

ou all. Sometimes I feel like Soxtalk people's opinions are the majority. Then I read the Trib columnists who are read by millions of people and realize my positions are actually commonplace. Ozzie is popular -- some might say wildly popular and not all are people as dumb as you deem me -- whether you believe it or not.

 

2.) How many doubles and triples did Ozzie have compared to Juan. I guess my memory could be fading but I remember his batting stance and the way he hacked at the ball and it reminds me much more of a real hitter with gap capability than weak Juan. If I'm wrong though, I'm wrong.

 

 

Finally you said "I haven't even heard ONE thing from you about WHY you like Ozzie. I haven't heard ONE valid point to support ANYTHING you've ever said on this subject or any other."

 

I say: How long have you been on here? Seriously longtimers have read my reasons why I like Ozzie. Are you crazy? A lot do have to do with intangibles like the way he deflects criticism off his players by stealing the headlines many times. I think he also has a feel for the game, not evidenced as well this year. Those are some reasons to go with my above mentioned reasons. I think you've lost it though. I guess if you want me to list 10 specifics I can find time to write an essay of sorts for you with specific examples, etc.

 

Ugh. First off, is there some reason I;m unaware of why you are quoting/responding to two people at one time instead of separating the two? Jeez...

 

It's sad. I see you displaying an extensive and very impressive vocabulary, yet you seem to lack any semblance of logic or common sense. Well, they say Einstein couldn't even tie his shoes...

 

I believe 2005 is one of your few (and poor) defense mechanisms of Ozzie. Again, that team was so good you practically had to sabotage them to get them to lose.

 

Well, I appreciate you finally somewhat answering my question but I still don't see much. Most of the reasons you give are simply non-existent or don't work anymore because Ozzie has come to a point where he can't manage for s***, s***s on his fans, and seems to have lost a lot of control in the clubhouse. And those reasons enough aren't sufficient. I won't bash your opinion in saying you "like" Ozzie; that's your perogative. But that doesn't change what I'm stating. I would have agreed with SOME of this 2-3 years ago, but Ozzie just seems to be losing it more and more.

 

My problem with you is that you say a lot of things that appear to have no thought process behind them. To say "any win is a well managed game and any loss is a poorly managed game" is utterly ridiculous. To say 2 columnists agree with your point of view so that makes it so... is also utterly ridiculous. Too many times you just say stuff as-is with no reasoning behind it. Although I might be more vitriolic than most, obviously I'm not the only one to call you out on many of your more ignorant posts and generalizations. Plus, what does "millions of people" reading a newspaper have to do with the way two columnists think, much less yourself? s***, Cowley has to be the most despised media guy on this board next to Jay Mariotti, dude. I'm not trying to discredit any single opinion (that is if it follows points to support it) entirely, but you gotta have something solid to support an argument, and entirely too many times you don't, and sometimes it appears you don't even try Sometimes you attempt to elaborate on things it seems you have no clue about.

 

If you're going to make these radical posts constantly, at least add some insight behind them, will ya'? "Ozzie is the best manager in White Sox history, PERIOD?" I mean, COME ON, LOL.

[witesoxfan]

Can we seriously f***ing drop this? It's pointless bickering.

[greg775]

Hurt you have worn me out.

I'll just say I think you are crazy as much as you think I am stupid and I'll leave it at that.

So you win. I'm worn out.

 

p.s. I think many of your statements are as opinionated (without fact) as much as mine (Ozzie seems to be losing it more and more, et. all)

 

I would also like to say I do think a lot of things you've written about me have been pretty personal. The worst thing I've ever called you (or anybody) on here is in this thread, "crazy."

And crazy isn't that bad a word. Some of the s*** you've tossed off the wall regarding me ... wow.

I wouldn't mind others' opinions on whether I should be more mad at you than I am concerning your posts about me.

Edited September 24, 2010 by greg775

[Jordan4life_2007]

This thread rules. I love chaos and confusion.

[LittleHurt05]

This thread rules. I love chaos and confusion.

 

I really enjoyed the fact that a discussion started comparing the power hitting abilities of Juan Pierre vs. Ozzie Guillen.

[Real]

Can we seriously f***ing drop this? It's pointless bickering.

 

Hurt, IMO, is embarassing himself with his internet toughguy tirade. Let it go dude...

 

Just my $.02

[Quin]

I really enjoyed the fact that a discussion started comparing the power hitting abilities of Juan Pierre vs. Ozzie Guillen.

 

+1

[TheBigHurt]

Hurt you have worn me out.

I'll just say I think you are crazy as much as you think I am stupid and I'll leave it at that.

So you win. I'm worn out.

 

p.s. I think many of your statements are as opinionated (without fact) as much as mine (Ozzie seems to be losing it more and more, et. all)

 

I would also like to say I do think a lot of things you've written about me have been pretty personal. The worst thing I've ever called you (or anybody) on here is in this thread, "crazy."

And crazy isn't that bad a word. Some of the s*** you've tossed off the wall regarding me ... wow.

I wouldn't mind others' opinions on whether I should be more mad at you than I am concerning your posts about me.

 

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one calling you these things. And although I've thrown some insults at you, I've also thrown a lot of facts and some challenges. I like that your last post was at least an attempt at some logic, but I refuted what was left and have yet to hear from you regarding what I've quoted from you because those quotes are, as I said, utterly ridiculous. So please tell me in your mind where the logic is behind those statements because you have yet to address them.

[lostfan]

Hurt you're going like way too far with it, farther than anyone else will go.

[Dick Allen]

Uh no.

 

Ozzie's career high is 4 home runs in a season and he managed a whole 28 in his 16 year career

 

Pierre has a high of 3 home runs and 14 in 11 years.

 

That's hardly more pop "by far."

Pierre gets a lot of crap, but he's basically had the same year this year Scotty Pods had in 2005 when he was thought of as almost God-like by some.

[Balta1701]

[chetkincaid]

 

LOL this is funny and sad at the same time. I wish Ozzie could get his s*** together and stay.

[NorthSideSox72]

It bugs me a lot that Ozzie is saying this s*** during the season. One way or another, a lot of these players will be back in 2011, and it can't make them happy to see this going on while they are still playing. It would bother me less if this was November.

 

[Balta1701]

It bugs me a lot that Ozzie is saying this s*** during the season. One way or another, a lot of these players will be back in 2011, and it can't make them happy to see this going on while they are still playing. It would bother me less if this was November.

They're still playing and the season isn't over?

 

I'd consider putting that in green...but really...am I being sarcastic?

[Middle Buffalo]

This whole situation is embarrassing.

 

Ozzie's kids crossed the line when they started tweeting what should be private conversations between Ozzie and his kids. Ozzie should be ashamed that his adult children think it's ok to insult their father's boss publicly and leak info.

 

None of this stuff should be public.

 

That said, I hope both Ozzie and Kenny stay. Ozzie might be a little crazy, but he's good for the national profile of the team, and I think a pretty good manager overall. And Kenny, he might not make all the right moves, but at least he's not afraid to deal. If he makes a mistake, at least it doesn't stop him from making another deal.

[greg775]

And although I've thrown some insults at you, I've also thrown a lot of facts and some challenges.

 

Great great cartoon.

 

I don't know where you came from, but nobody on the board has ever attacked me like this. WTF. It's like I told somebody else, trust me, I'm not as dumb as you think I am.

[greg775]

It bugs me a lot that Ozzie is saying this s*** during the season. One way or another, a lot of these players will be back in 2011, and it can't make them happy to see this going on while they are still playing. It would bother me less if this was November.

 

I agree this was a peculiar one. My only defense of Ozzie is he got asked by it and didn't bring it up.

But he would not be a happy manager if one of his players was doing this during the season. That actually might hurt him in dealings in the future, unless they realize it's Ozzie being Ozzie. I've read those type quotes before.

But he does have a year and option year left so it's not really smart or right for him to be doing it during the season. Especially since Jerry loves him and he could go to him right after the season.

It's all ego and money based which should come as no surprise though.

[TheBigHurt]

Great great cartoon.

 

I don't know where you came from, but nobody on the board has ever attacked me like this. WTF. It's like I told somebody else, trust me, I'm not as dumb as you think I am.

 

Yes they have. Maybe just not as ferociously. As far as you not being as dumb as I think you are... your posts and attempt at logic say otherwise. You STILL have not addressed the things I quoted from you.

[southsider2k5]

Yes they have. Maybe just not as ferociously. As far as you not being as dumb as I think you are... your posts and attempt at logic say otherwise. You STILL have not addressed the things I quoted from you.

 

If people wonder about what happens behind the scenes here, these are the kinds of posts that get you into trouble. Don't make it personal. Usually this stuff isn't made public, but notice there will be a prolonged absence in this case.

[greg775]

Thanks southsider.

 

 

[TheBigHurt]

If people wonder about what happens behind the scenes here, these are the kinds of posts that get you into trouble. Don't make it personal. Usually this stuff isn't made public, but notice there will be a prolonged absence in this case.

 

So... if he makes a senseless post ON THE SUBJECT, I'm not allowed to question him about it and ask him what his logic behind it is while he continues to make post after post without addressing it? That makes ZERO sense. How can you even have a discussion like that?