Gamethread: Sox vs. Beaneaters, 7:10 PM 09/29

[fathom]

Just saw one of the worst calls of all time on the play with Morel at 1st base.

[elgonzo4sox]

Just saw one of the worst calls of all time on the play with Morel at 1st base.

 

That wasn't even close - not even a bang-bang play. Definitely the worst missed call at first I've seen this year.

 

C'mon Sox - Beckett is definitely shaky....

 

[dmbjeff]

Why not just let Ozzie and Kenny fix the DH mistake they made this year, and see what happens next year? If that's all it would take to contend, then we're real close and only need to make that incremental improvement, plus deal with a few other issues such as closer (where we have multiple options in-house already) and the timing of Peavy's return to the rotation. Why clean house? The Twins never clean house - they have more stability than the White Sox...

 

financially heading into the offseason we have 68 mil tied up in only 10 players. assuming the thornton option is picked up and what danks will get in ARB, i see that being about 80 mil for 12 guys. throw in beckham, sale and another bullpen guy who are pre arb, we are at about 83mil for 15 guys. 10 more spots filled with about 20 million more? it is going to be very hard to fix the problems. i didnt even include quentins arb if we offer it. there is no way aj and pk both come back. we are going to see flowers,viciedo and/or morel all get a chance to play. next year could be a really brutal season.

[Quin]

43 year old phenom.

[elgonzo4sox]

But every year it is something that goes wrong basically. Last year it was Wise as an everyday guy, along with Fields. Then we have the Erstad, Mackowiak year. We have had bullpen issues in years past.

 

My point is, as soon as we fix one problem, another one opens up. It is like having 2 wounds and only 1 bandaid. Next year we may solve the DH problem and then have an issue with SP, bullpen, OF, IF etc. Right now looking into the near future, we have very good SP. That is the one huge plus at the moment. We have some other positives, Alexei and Beckham will continue to grow into next year and Rios reestabilished himself. Pierre proved to be what we expected, but nothing great in terms of baseball value.(OPS, WAR etc) We have huge gaping holes at DH, 1B,3B,RF heading into the offseason. I say RF cause CQ has been mediocre for 2 seasons now. That is alot to fix in my opinion.

 

DH: sign an aging preferably LH slugger, or put Viciedo on the 25 man roster and use him primarily as DH, with some rotation.

 

1B: sign Paulie at $10M to $12M

 

3B: Morel for his glove, and live with his bat as it develops (the Crede approach)

 

RF: Give Quentin another chance. Even with the subpar year this year, his slugging numbers were good overall, although he's very streaky.

 

 

[elgonzo4sox]

financially heading into the offseason we have 68 mil tied up in only 10 players. assuming the thornton option is picked up and what danks will get in ARB, i see that being about 80 mil for 12 guys. throw in beckham, sale and another bullpen guy who are pre arb, we are at about 83mil for 15 guys. 10 more spots filled with about 20 million more? it is going to be very hard to fix the problems. i didnt even include quentins arb if we offer it. there is no way aj and pk both come back. we are going to see flowers,viciedo and/or morel all get a chance to play. next year could be a really brutal season.

 

Now you're citing a real potential problem for Kenny. I don't know what the money situation looks like. I've been surprised with the Sox' ability to add salary (e.g. Manny), so maybe Jerry can give Kenny the money to basically keep the current team intact, including re-signing Konerko.

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

kotsay, go out with a bang.

[fathom]

Stone really hates Manny Ramirez.

[The Ginger Kid]

Stone really hates Manny Ramirez.

what's not to hate?

[fathom]

Is Kotsay still hitless vs LHP this season? It's really incredible how scared Ozzie is to use Viciedo.

[dmbjeff]

DH: sign an aging preferably LH slugger, or put Viciedo on the 25 man roster and use him primarily as DH, with some rotation.

 

1B: sign Paulie at $10M to $12M

 

3B: Morel for his glove, and live with his bat as it develops (the Crede approach)

 

RF: Give Quentin another chance. Even with the subpar year this year, his slugging numbers were good overall, although he's very streaky.

 

even with CQ at a small raise in arb, lets say 4 and paulie at 10, we are up to another 14 mil of the 20 or so million you had to play with. signing a vet for dh will still cost a few million or go cheaper with viciedo who you are already paying a million to. havent addressed catcher yet, i assume flowers then right? that puts us with 3 rookies in the lineup in morel, flowers and viciedo. that is about the only way we can hang on to paulie too. those are 3 huge question marks. i think they all have potential, no doubt, but if they fail, we are in some real trouble.

 

we need to free up money somewhere. jackson or danks i think are sure to be traded this offseason. the other big contracts will be nearly impossible to move.

[dmbjeff]

Is Kotsay still hitless vs LHP this season? It's really incredible how scared Ozzie is to use Viciedo.

 

just wait next year when viciedo is our 1B/DH and ozzie constantly benches him in favor of some aging vet who has no business taking his ab's.

Edited September 30, 2010 by dmbjeff

[elgonzo4sox]

JJ!!!

 

Thornton!!!

 

Good job putting out Freddy's minor fire.

 

I hope we can keep this bullpen duo together for next year...

[elgonzo4sox]

even with CQ at a small raise in arb, lets say 4 and paulie at 10, we are up to another 14 mil of the 20 or so million you had to play with. signing a vet for dh will still cost a few million or go cheaper with viciedo who you are already paying a million to. havent addressed catcher yet, i assume flowers then right? that puts us with 3 rookies in the lineup in morel, flowers and viciedo. that is about the only way we can hang on to paulie too. those are 3 huge question marks. i think they all have potential, no doubt, but if they fail, we are in some real trouble.

 

we need to free up money somewhere. jackson or danks i think are sure to be traded this offseason. the other big contracts will be nearly impossible to move.

 

I agree - with Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Jackson and Sale under control for next year, I agree that we have a 6 man rotation when we can probably afford 5 at best, so this would be the logical place to free up some money.

 

 

[scenario]

I agree - with Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Jackson and Sale under control for next year, I agree that we have a 6 man rotation when we can probably afford 5 at best, so this would be the logical place to free up some money.

 

Don't assume we have a 6-man rotation until we see Peavy can pitch.

 

 

[Quin]

Brenterview

[elgonzo4sox]

Brenterview

 

Can we get the Sox to have Morel trade numbers with Viciedo? Morel looks like the second coming of Joe Crede right now...

 

[Quin]

Can we get the Sox to have Morel trade numbers with Viciedo? Morel looks like the second coming of Joe Crede right now...

 

And Viciedo is the second coming of Pods?

[elgonzo4sox]

And Viciedo is the second coming of Pods?

 

Viciedo, if he could get more consistent with the bat, add a little more power, and learn how to draw walks, is more like the second coming of Frank Thomas - a potentially great hitter, but a suspect fielder. He will never be a Morel or Crede at third base - first base / DH is definitely his best shot at playing time.

 

Ideally we'd have Konerko and Viciedo on the roster next year to play 1B/DH, with Konerko getting more time at 1B until Viciedo can improve his fielding more.

 

 

[Whitewashed in '05]

Viciedo, if he could get more consistent with the bat, add a little more power, and learn how to draw walks, is more like the second coming of Frank Thomas - a potentially great hitter, but a suspect fielder. He will never be a Morel or Crede at third base - first base / DH is definitely his best shot at playing time.

 

Ideally we'd have Konerko and Viciedo on the roster next year to play 1B/DH, with Konerko getting more time at 1B until Viciedo can improve his fielding more.

I think you're going out on a limb on that one a little bit... just a little bit.

[elgonzo4sox]

I think you're going out on a limb on that one a little bit... just a little bit.

 

Viciedo's nowhere near Frank's talent level, agreed. But I think Viciedo at best is a good 1B/DH who hits the ball hard - that's what I meant by the Frank comparison. Frank Thomas was amazing from his start in the majors, and I agree that Viciedo isn't equivalent to a rookie Frank yet. But Viciedo's also only 19, I believe...

 

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Viciedo, if he could get more consistent with the bat, add a little more power, and learn how to draw walks, is more like the second coming of Frank Thomas - a potentially great hitter, but a suspect fielder. He will never be a Morel or Crede at third base - first base / DH is definitely his best shot at playing time.

 

Ideally we'd have Konerko and Viciedo on the roster next year to play 1B/DH, with Konerko getting more time at 1B until Viciedo can improve his fielding more.

 

His power/bat speed is already there to be a 30+ HR guy.

 

Viciedo's nowhere near Frank's talent level, agreed. But I think Viciedo at best is a good 1B/DH who hits the ball hard - that's what I meant by the Frank comparison. Frank Thomas was amazing from his start in the majors, and I agree that Viciedo isn't equivalent to a rookie Frank yet. But Viciedo's also only 19, I believe...

 

He's actually 21, which is still obviously quite young.