Players who failed when it counts/against the Twins

[witesoxfan]

He sure is look at the Twins, they lost their $12M shut down closer for the year and before acquiring Capps had something like a 31/33 conversion rate on saves. That just shows you right there that an adequate closer is good enough to win 95 games and get to the playoffs. Also, Capps blows, I think his ERA, WHIP, and BAA were even worse than the Twins in house candidates. And they still did fine and hardly blew a save. The closer is just one more quality arm in the pen, of course it must be a quality arm, not Andrew Sisco.

 

You entire argument is a contradiction. You say that the closer is meaningless, and then say that the closer has to be a quality arm. Maybe it's just me, but by suggesting that the closer has to be a quality arm, then they can't really be meaningless, can they?

 

Capps was also pretty damn good with Minnesota. ERA of 2.00, WHIP of 1.19, solid K/9, solid BB/9...Twins fans certainly aren't complaining.

[Dick Allen]

And for those reasons Danks would fetch a s***load more than Floyd. If you can recognize that, it is obvious to the rest of MLB as well.

And Albert Pujols would fetch a lot more than anyone else but St. Louis isn't trading him. Trading Danks would be a mistake. Trading Floyd may be a mistake or it could be perfect timing.

[Balta1701]

And for those reasons Danks would fetch a s***load more than Floyd. If you can recognize that, it is obvious to the rest of MLB as well.

D1 has a couple things going for him that aren't worth noting there. First...generally better numbers. 2nd...pitches with his left hand. Both of those make him reasonable as a trade option.

 

The reason the Sox might actually do it though is his FA status.

[southsider2k5]

D1 has a couple things going for him that aren't worth noting there. First...generally better numbers. 2nd...pitches with his left hand. Both of those make him reasonable as a trade option.

 

The reason the Sox might actually do it though is his FA status.

 

And that is the biggest difference between Danks and Floyd. Floyd is locked up to a friendly deal. Danks isn't.

[Balta1701]

I'm so sick of this. Every year it's the same story. One team we can't beat. Every time we're up in the game, and then either our starting pitching craps out or our bullpen craps out. Did we even win a game against them last year? They get so demoralized, and then all they can talk about is how great the other team is.

 

I swear, things are never going to change until there's some accountability. Gardenhire should be fired yesterday.

 

Wait, which board am I on?

[Milkman delivers]

I'm so sick of this. Every year it's the same story. One team we can't beat. Every time we're up in the game, and then either our starting pitching craps out or our bullpen craps out. Did we even win a game against them last year? They get so demoralized, and then all they can talk about is how great the other team is.

 

I swear, things are never going to change until there's some accountability. Gardenhire should be fired yesterday.

 

Wait, which board am I on?

 

I saw where you were going immediately with this.

 

Still though, you think there's no difference between continually making the playoffs and missing the playoffs the vast majority of the time?

 

(Cue World Series rebuttal)

 

That was five years ago, and they haven't come close to repeating it since. They win one title, and since everyone is used to never being competitive, every non-player has job security for life.

[southsider2k5]

I saw where you were going immediately with this.

 

Still though, you think there's no difference between continually making the playoffs and missing the playoffs the vast majority of the time?

 

(Cue World Series rebuttal)

 

That was five years ago, and they haven't come close to repeating it since. They win one title, and since everyone is used to never being competitive, every non-player has job security for life.

 

And yet the team are supposed to emulate hasn't won a title in 20 years, and choke every year in the first round.

[LittleHurt05]

And yet the team are supposed to emulate hasn't won a title in 20 years, and choke every year in the first round.

 

3-17 in their last 20 playoff games

[BigSqwert]

And yet the team are supposed to emulate hasn't won a title in 20 years, and choke every year in the first round.

 

Why do we have to emulate the Twins? How about Philly? Can we emulate Philly?

[gatnom]

3-17 in their last 20 playoff games

 

What does that say about us, the team they continually beat the s*** out of?

[Milkman delivers]

Why do we have to emulate the Twins? How about Philly? Can we emulate Philly?

 

Yeah, where is this written? Just because the Twins are the team that humiliate us on a regular basis, we don't have to emulate them. We just have to emulate a team that wins.

 

It's almost a straw man argument. We get it thrown in our faces that the Twins can't win anything in the postseason, but we're really just upset that we can't beat them in the regular season. The postseason has nothing to do with the argument. They prevent us from winning in the regular season, and that's the main point.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, where is this written? Just because the Twins are the team that humiliate us on a regular basis, we don't have to emulate them. We just have to emulate a team that wins.

 

It's almost a straw man argument. We get it thrown in our faces that the Twins can't win anything in the postseason, but we're really just upset that we can't beat them in the regular season. The postseason has nothing to do with the argument. They prevent us from winning in the regular season, and that's the main point.

 

So we can only listen to people b**** about the Twins beating us, and ignore the rest of the story? That's a pretty crappy discussion if you ask me.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah, where is this written? Just because the Twins are the team that humiliate us on a regular basis, we don't have to emulate them. We just have to emulate a team that wins.

 

It's almost a straw man argument. We get it thrown in our faces that the Twins can't win anything in the postseason, but we're really just upset that we can't beat them in the regular season. The postseason has nothing to do with the argument. They prevent us from winning in the regular season, and that's the main point.

 

The 2005 White Sox are destined to become the '85 Bears.

[BigSqwert]

The 2005 White Sox are destined to become the '85 Bears.

They already are.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So we can only listen to people b**** about the Twins beating us, and ignore the rest of the story? That's a pretty crappy discussion if you ask me.

 

Using 2005 or the Twins' playoff record (doesn't help that they play a 200 million dollar juggernaut every year) as some kinda ultimate security blanket as a rebuttal for them kicking our asses every year is kinda corny. As a fan, I don't give a s*** if the Twins go 0 for their next 80 in the playoffs. I most certainly do care that they're the ones keeping us from getting to the postseason to begin with (save 2008, which was only because of a stupid coin flip).

Edited October 7, 2010 by Jordan4life

[kitekrazy]

I enjoy making rash and vague judgments within small sample sizes too.

 

Yep, "Big game Danks" was not on the list. He would be #1 in my rash and vague judgment list.

 

[kitekrazy]

Yeah, where is this written? Just because the Twins are the team that humiliate us on a regular basis, we don't have to emulate them. We just have to emulate a team that wins.

 

It's almost a straw man argument. We get it thrown in our faces that the Twins can't win anything in the postseason, but we're really just upset that we can't beat them in the regular season. The postseason has nothing to do with the argument. They prevent us from winning in the regular season, and that's the main point.

 

It's not the Twins that prevent them from winning, it's not beating those they should. Some teams have hang ups with other teams. The best way to avoid it is win the games they are suppose to to make it not the only factor. In baseball you get enough chances that winning is division is not totally relied on winning every season series against division foes.

 

[southsider2k5]

Using 2005 or the Twins' playoff record (doesn't help that they play a 200 million dollar juggernaut every year) as some kinda ultimate security blanket as a rebuttal for them kicking our asses every year is kinda corny. As a fan, I don't give a s*** if the Twins go 0 for their next 80 in the playoffs. I most certainly do care that they're the ones keeping us from getting to the postseason to begin with (save 2008, which was only because of a stupid coin flip).

 

The bar keeps changing, that's the problem. All regular season long we hear how anything but winning the World Series is a failure. Then when the Twins beat us out, it is all about how we should be like the Twins. Then when the Twins playoff record comes up it doesn't matter what they do the in post-season anymore. In that first standard, there really isn't a difference between winning 88 games and staying home and winning 94 and being the Yankees b****.

[BigSqwert]

there really isn't a difference between winning 88 games and staying home and winning 94 and being the Yankees b****.

Yes there is. A lot of playoff revenue and most likely increased season ticket sales when your team makes the post season.

[southsider2k5]

Yes there is. A lot of playoff revenue and most likely increased season ticket sales when your team makes the post season.

 

Then by that logic, winning 88 games and getting a crappy draft pick is better than winning 75 and getting a top 10 pick because of the increased revenues as well.

[BigSqwert]

Then by that logic, winning 88 games and getting a crappy draft pick is better than winning 75 and getting a top 10 pick because of the increased revenues as well.

Actually that isn't comparable logic IMO.

[joeynach]

You entire argument is a contradiction. You say that the closer is meaningless, and then say that the closer has to be a quality arm. Maybe it's just me, but by suggesting that the closer has to be a quality arm, then they can't really be meaningless, can they?

 

Capps was also pretty damn good with Minnesota. ERA of 2.00, WHIP of 1.19, solid K/9, solid BB/9...Twins fans certainly aren't complaining.

 

My point is the closer doesnt have to be anything different than a good reliever, it doesnt have to be a $8-$12M guy. It still cant be someone with crappy stuff and bad control (Andrew Sisco), but Im saying it doesnt have to be Bobby Jenks cuz hes a closer or Joe Nathan cuz hes a closer. Jon Rauch is good enough for 30 saves in 32 opportunities for the Twins, why shouldn't Thornton or Sale be good enough for us.

Edited October 7, 2010 by joeynach

[Jordan4life_2007]

The bar keeps changing, that's the problem. All regular season long we hear how anything but winning the World Series is a failure. Then when the Twins beat us out, it is all about how we should be like the Twins. Then when the Twins playoff record comes up it doesn't matter what they do the in post-season anymore. In that first standard, there really isn't a difference between winning 88 games and staying home and winning 94 and being the Yankees b****.

 

Again, I don't care what the Twins do in the playoffs. And I never said I wanted to emulate them. I've said repeatedly that the Phillies are the team I want to emulate because they're outstanding and I feel getting to their level is realistic, unlike the Yankees because they play by a totally different set of rules.

[Jerksticks]

Again, I don't care what the Twins do in the playoffs. And I never said I wanted to emulate them. I've said repeatedly that the Phillies are the team I want to emulate because they're outstanding and I feel getting to their level is realistic, unlike the Yankees because they play by a totally different set of rules.

 

Well we need some better hitters to come out of our system. Watching these playoff games, it seems like most of the hitters on these teams are tough outs. We don't have many tough outs. Juan Pierre should teach all our young guys how to foul off pitches instead of popping them up. He is able to wait for HIS pitch more than anybody. He's the only guy on our team that really sets up pitchers.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well we need some better hitters to come out of our system. Watching these playoff games, it seems like most of the hitters on these teams are tough outs. We don't have many tough outs. Juan Pierre should teach all our young guys how to foul off pitches instead of popping them up. He is able to wait for HIS pitch more than anybody. He's the only guy on our team that really sets up pitchers.

 

I don't want Juan Pierre teaching our young guys anything. Even when he's good, he sucks.