DBAHO Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 02:28 AM) Kevin Love is NOT a f***ing top 10 player in the NBA. I care not what PER says on this subject... and points and rebounds are glamorous, but GTFO. Top 10 players don't play on 10-30 teams. They carry their teams to AT LEAST .500. He's a decent passer, and a fantastic rebounder with little competition for that statistic on his roster. Kevin Love. Top 10. NBA. GTFO. I won't even bother to comment on the audacity of calling Blake Griffin a top 10 player in the League right now. I'll re-phrase that. If you were selecting players to build a franchise around for the next 10 years, Love and Griffin would be on my list. EDIT: I also think you have to look at who's coaching both teams and the surrounding talent they have on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So...I'd be content if Boozer and Rose each decided to drop 50 tonight, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 07:49 AM) So...I'd be content if Boozer and Rose each decided to drop 50 tonight, how about you? Just from the free throw line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) Kevin Love is NOT a f***ing top 10 player in the NBA. I care not what PER says on this subject... and points and rebounds are glamorous, but GTFO. Top 10 players don't play on 10-30 teams. They carry their teams to AT LEAST .500. He's a decent passer, and a fantastic rebounder with little competition for that statistic on his roster. Kevin Love. Top 10. NBA. GTFO. I won't even bother to comment on the audacity of calling Blake Griffin a top 10 player in the League right now. The first 3 years of Michael Jordan's NBA career, the Bulls weren't .500. I'm guessingg he was in the top 10. Edited January 15, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:06 AM) The first 3 years of Michael Jordan's NBA career, the Bulls weren't .500. I'm guessingg he was in the top 10. Kevin Love to MJ? Please do not compare Love to Airness. Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Amare, Dirk, Carmelo, Westbrook, and maybe even Ellis so far this year are ahead of Love. But he maybe 11 or 12. Edited January 15, 2011 by Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:06 AM) The first 3 years of Michael Jordan's NBA career, the Bulls weren't .500. I'm guessingg he was in the top 10. You're better than that, DA. I know I've been kinda crazy of late. But not that damn crazy. And you can't even count one of those years because MJ missed 65 games or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Felix @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 05:36 PM) I'd take the guy that averages the same number of points, THREE more rebounds a game and is a far better shooter. I'm not saying Griffin isn't good, but Love is simply better. Less Sportscenter highlights, but that doesn't make him a worse player. And for what it's worth, Griffin is just as bad defensively as Love is. It obviously depends on how you value those things, but let's not pretend Griffin is this defensive stud while Love makes his team suddenly give up thousands of points per game. EDIT: Of course, the site I just linked to thinks Corey Brewer and Wes Johnson are better than Kevin Love. So it's obviously full of s***. Love averages 3 more rebounds a game but Griffin basically does everything else better. Like I said, it's really freakin close if you're just looking at this season alone. If you're building a team and you need to pick one of them, it's a no brainer, you're taking Mr. Griffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Love averages 3 more rebounds a game but Griffin basically does everything else better. Except shoot, which is a fairly big aspect of basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:13 AM) Kevin Love to MJ? Please do not compare Love to Airness. Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Amare, Dirk, Carmelo, Westbrook, and maybe even Ellis so far this year are ahead of Love. But he maybe 11 or 12. I'm not comparing anyone to the best player of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:15 AM) You're better than that, DA. I know I've been kinda crazy of late. But not that damn crazy. And you can't even count one of those years because MJ missed 65 games or so. All I did was point out the flawed thinking that top 10 players carry their teams to at least .500 records. For the record, I don't think of Love as a top 10 NBA player, and would never be foolish enough to compare him to MJ, but saying he's not a top 10 player based on Timberwolves losses isn't exactly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 06:21 AM) I'll re-phrase that. If you were selecting players to build a franchise around for the next 10 years, Love and Griffin would be on my list. EDIT: I also think you have to look at who's coaching both teams and the surrounding talent they have on their roster. Nah, Love wouldn't be in my top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 11:03 AM) All I did was point out the flawed thinking that top 10 players carry their teams to at least .500 records. For the record, I don't think of Love as a top 10 NBA player, and would never be foolish enough to compare him to MJ, but saying he's not a top 10 player based on Timberwolves losses isn't exactly fair. Completely different eras, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Let's not crap on PER. It takes into account defensive impact as well. Statistically, this season, Kevin Love is a top 10 player. And Griffin definitely is going to have a higher FG% as he goes inside much more. Love doesn't dunk like Griffin does, instead he jukes, jives and then shoots. I'm not a Love fan in the least, but he's a heck of a player for at least this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 08:13 AM) Kevin Love to MJ? Please do not compare Love to Airness. Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Rose, Amare, Dirk, Carmelo, Westbrook, and maybe even Ellis so far this year are ahead of Love. But he maybe 11 or 12. I might throw Dwight Howard in there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Link The Detroit Pistons are in a holding pattern as they await the finishing pieces of a blockbuster trade to fall into place, leaving veteran players to question the moves of their second-year coach. The Pistons held out their contribution to the deal -- Richard Hamilton -- for the second straight game Friday night in a 101-95 win over the Toronto Raptors. Hamilton has been the team's scoring leader for the past seven seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 11:48 AM) Let's not crap on PER. It takes into account defensive impact as well. Statistically, this season, Kevin Love is a top 10 player. And Griffin definitely is going to have a higher FG% as he goes inside much more. Love doesn't dunk like Griffin does, instead he jukes, jives and then shoots. I'm not a Love fan in the least, but he's a heck of a player for at least this year. PER counts rebounds, steals and blocks, not exactly the greatest indicators of total defensive ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:26 PM) PER counts rebounds, steals and blocks, not exactly the greatest indicators of total defensive ability. It has to take some version of +/- into account though doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) PER counts rebounds, steals and blocks, not exactly the greatest indicators of total defensive ability. Yeah, you don't need PER to know that Bruce Bowen was one of the best guard/wing defenders of this era. Don't get me wrong. I like it as far as evaluating a player's offensive contributions. But it's pretty flawed defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) It has to take some version of +/- into account though doesn't it? No it doesn't, it's mostly based on rate stats. Love's would be a lot lower if it did since he's only +2.8 when he's on the floor (+7.7 points per 100 possessions offensively, +4.9 (as in their D is worse) defensively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) Nah, Love wouldn't be in my top 10. Who would be FWIW? This is how I'd have it (or thereabouts); Kevin Durant Lebron James Dwight Howard Dwayne Wade Chris Paul Derrick Rose Kevin Love Blake Griffin Carmelo Anthony Russell Westbrook or Rajon Rondo or Eric Gordon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 11:43 AM) Completely different eras, dude. How about Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dewayne Wade, Dwight Howard? They are the same era I would think. They have all played on teams that have finished below .500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 05:02 PM) How about Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dewayne Wade, Dwight Howard? They are the same era I would think. They have all played on teams that have finished below .500. How many of those though were in those players first year or two, where they really weren't top 10 players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Karma's a b****. All reports point to LeBron likely sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) This whole train of thought is getting beyond the point as well. Nit-picking about teams with Kobe or Jordan winning 38-40 games is beside the point. Those teams were still relatively competitive with them and awful supporting casts. The T-Wolves are on pace for 20.5 wins in a league where roughly half of the teams are varying degrees of awful. Plus while their roster in general stinks, they also have another pretty competent player/scorer in Michael Beasley (admittedly his D sucks too). That makes it really hard to argue that Love is a truly elite player when he's not having a huge impact on his team's wins. Even someone like Chris Bosh has been to the playoffs as the best player on his team, and no one talks about him being elite anymore. Edited January 15, 2011 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) This whole train of thought is getting beyond the point as well. Nit-picking about teams with Kobe or Jordan winning 38-40 games is beside the point. Those teams were still relatively competitive with them and awful supporting casts. The T-Wolves are on pace for 20.5 wins in a league where roughly half of the teams are varying degrees of awful. Plus while their roster in general stinks, they also have another pretty competent player/scorer in Michael Beasley (admittedly his D sucks too). That makes it really hard to argue that Love is a truly elite player when he's not having a huge impact on his team's wins. Even someone like Chris Bosh has been closer to the playoffs as the best player on his team, and no one talks about him being elite anymore. Chris Bosh also played on a team in a much weaker league/division. There's a reason the Wolves are ranked 22nd in Hollinger's power rankings right now. They are a much better team than the record says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts