2010-2011 NBA Thread

[Rowand44]

With the new CBA, Deng isn't going anywhere. His value remains highest to the Bulls.

Who knows what the new CBA is going to bring but that's definitely a ton of money for the Bulls to be moving.

 

For me it'd all depend on what we'd have to move to get Dwight, Noah would obviously be an extremely movable piece in such a deal but it'd be intriguing to see what else Orlando would want. Howard is a monster and worth giving up a lot for but I'm not tearing about this Bulls core for him.

[bmags]

That is kind of my point. You have three incredible players on that Miami team, and they still aren't the favorites to win it all. The Bulls would have only two stars, and a complete lack of depth. Haslem is legit, but Miller is the exact type of player the Bulls would be looking at to fill up their roster at minimum wage. He is absolutely a great example of the type of guys the Bulls would have to bring in. Legit players won't sign for that little money.

 

I understand your point... but in my opinion having the best pg + best center in the game will be a better team than best SG + SF combo in the game plus a good powerforward that makes his points on jump shots.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It would be really difficult to root for that dbag Dwight Howard. Not to mention having to hide him late in games on the offensive end. Obviously, physically he's a beast, but he's a limited beast on the offensive end with a VERY slowly evolving, limited arsenal of post moves who can't hit free throws. He's far and away the Magic's best player, yet he gets limited looks late in games. Speaks volumes when SVG would rather have the ball in Jameer Nelson's hands in crunch time.

 

That said, I think he might flourish not having to be the leader of his team because obviously he either isn't mature enough for that role or just doesn't want it.

 

He's a 5-time rebounding champion, 2-time blocked shots champion and 3-time DPOY. His offensive game has improved a ton over the last couple years (career high 23 PPG on elite efficiency this year). And he's only 25. His FT shooting doesn't come into play as much because Rose would obviously be the closer in those situations.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Chisoxfn]

That would be no where near enough to get Howard. Look at what Melo got traded for.

Would it be enough in a straight up trade, no. But if Howard is demanding an early exedus it wouldn't be a bad deal. Orlando gets a C and PF to fill 2 holes for a long time. And aren't taking on any horrific or untouchable deals. Noah's deal is expensive but reasonable for a center and Taj is still on his rookie contract.

 

Laker fans are talking about trading Gasol straight up for him or Bynum. I'd say that the deal the Bulls are offering isnt' that bad and if Howard puts a gun to there head, well, that could put a lot of pressure on them. Throw in a 1st or something to sweeten the deal and they might bight. Of course they will probably try to include Arenas in any deal that involves Howard.

[southsider2k5]

Would it be enough in a straight up trade, no. But if Howard is demanding an early exedus it wouldn't be a bad deal. Orlando gets a C and PF to fill 2 holes for a long time. And aren't taking on any horrific or untouchable deals. Noah's deal is expensive but reasonable for a center and Taj is still on his rookie contract.

 

Laker fans are talking about trading Gasol straight up for him or Bynum. I'd say that the deal the Bulls are offering isnt' that bad and if Howard puts a gun to there head, well, that could put a lot of pressure on them. Throw in a 1st or something to sweeten the deal and they might bight. Of course they will probably try to include Arenas in any deal that involves Howard.

 

IMO, Laker fans are morons if they think that is all it will take to get the job done, even though Bynum or Gasol are way better than any player the Bulls could send to Orlando (obviously you keep Rose).

[Chisoxfn]

One other thing to point out, since this is an offday, is that the new CBA talk is indicating the NBA wants a hard cap at $45M with a 3 year exclusion period (to allow teams to get there cap situations in order) and it sounds like portions of NBA contracts would not be guaranteed.

 

That is a pretty drastic reduction in overall player/salary expenses given that right now there are numerous teams with upwards of 80 to 90M in player payroll (Lakers @ 94M). The luxury tax would also go away.

 

Now that is obviously not a settled upon reality but holy crap, this is gonna be one tough labor negotiation. Makes the NFL problems look small (well, NFL really doesn't have problems other than figuring out who gets to make more money since everyone is pretty much raking in profits). NBA, on the other hand, has tons of franchises losing money.

[Chisoxfn]

IMO, Laker fans are morons if they think that is all it will take to get the job done, even though Bynum or Gasol are way better than any player the Bulls could send to Orlando (obviously you keep Rose).

And I'm not saying that is what it ultimately takes. But those close to Howard indicate he wants to go to Chicago or LA. Many think LA is a huge favorite since they should be able to create cap space to sign him outright as a FA. It all comes down to how scared does Orlando get and how much of an ass can Dwight become.

 

Personally, If I were Orlando, I'd do what I could to win a title next year cause that might just help you save Dwight.

[bmags]

the nba should close those franchises or buy out their horrid owners (maloofs)

[Chisoxfn]

On a sidenote, we all talk about what the Knicks gave up for Melo. How about what a steal the Nets deal for Deron was. Just because one team drastically overpaid doesn't mean that you can't get guys at a fair deal.

 

And the Knicks will be better with an off-season to add a few role players. And they need to get better fast, given that Amare's knees won't hold up too long.

[Soxbadger]

My gut feeling is that the new cba is going to give a pretty large incentive for superstars to stay with their team.

 

I just cant imagine the Magic only taking Noah/Taj plus low future picks.

[southsider2k5]

One other thing to point out, since this is an offday, is that the new CBA talk is indicating the NBA wants a hard cap at $45M with a 3 year exclusion period (to allow teams to get there cap situations in order) and it sounds like portions of NBA contracts would not be guaranteed.

 

That is a pretty drastic reduction in overall player/salary expenses given that right now there are numerous teams with upwards of 80 to 90M in player payroll (Lakers @ 94M). The luxury tax would also go away.

 

Now that is obviously not a settled upon reality but holy crap, this is gonna be one tough labor negotiation. Makes the NFL problems look small (well, NFL really doesn't have problems other than figuring out who gets to make more money since everyone is pretty much raking in profits). NBA, on the other hand, has tons of franchises losing money.

 

Wow, there will be a strike before that happens.

[whitesoxfan99]

One other thing to point out, since this is an offday, is that the new CBA talk is indicating the NBA wants a hard cap at $45M with a 3 year exclusion period (to allow teams to get there cap situations in order) and it sounds like portions of NBA contracts would not be guaranteed.

 

That is a pretty drastic reduction in overall player/salary expenses given that right now there are numerous teams with upwards of 80 to 90M in player payroll (Lakers @ 94M). The luxury tax would also go away.

 

Now that is obviously not a settled upon reality but holy crap, this is gonna be one tough labor negotiation. Makes the NFL problems look small (well, NFL really doesn't have problems other than figuring out who gets to make more money since everyone is pretty much raking in profits). NBA, on the other hand, has tons of franchises losing money.

 

If the NBA is set on getting a hard cap of $45 million we aren't going to be seeing any NBA games next year.

[Balta1701]

Wow, there will be a strike before that happens.

Technically the NBA does the lockout thing just like the NFL.

 

But yes, there is going to be a long lockout next year.

[Balta1701]

If the NBA is set on getting a hard cap of $45 million we aren't going to be seeing any NBA games next year.

Remember, the owners in this league have already broken the Union once. They have every reason to expect that the Union won't be able to endure a strike again.

[ZoomSlowik]

There may be a hard cap, but the chances of it being $45 mil are basically zero.

 

You know how many teams have a payroll below $45 mil right now?

 

The answer is one: the Sacramento Kings at $44 mil.

 

They are the only team under $52 mil in salary and 22 of them are above $64 mil.

 

That's just WAY too huge a dropoff to be practical.

[bmags]

$45 is absurd though. I understand it sucks when joe johnson and rudy gay get the max, but i'd argue that the true superstars in the nba could probably make that themselves and deserve it.

[Balta1701]

There may be a hard cap, but the chances of it being $45 mil are basically zero.

 

You know how many teams have a payroll below $45 mil right now?

 

The answer is one: the Sacramento Kings at $44 mil.

 

They are the only team under $52 mil in salary and 22 of them are above $64 mil.

 

That's just WAY too huge a dropoff to be practical.

The NBA would clearly have to offer another version of the Allan Houston rule or something like a league-wide 30% salary drop to make that happen.

 

Frankly, with some of the contracts owners handed out last year, I wouldn't be surprised if they were expecting something like that.

[Balta1701]

$45 is absurd though. I understand it sucks when joe johnson and rudy gay get the max, but i'd argue that the true superstars in the nba could probably make that themselves and deserve it.

That's the real problem though. There are 4-5 guys in the league who are probably worth >$30 million a year to their teams, but there are 30 teams after those guys.

 

If you let the teams bid openly, then those people will wind up making $50 million a year in NYC, LA, and maybe Chicago.

 

If Instead, you limit the max deal, then every team winds up having the ability to sign guys to max contracts, and you wind up with the situation we have now, where 5-6 top guys are clearly underpaid relative to what they bring to a franchise, while the next tier is ridiculously overpaid as those teams try to compete with the top 5-6 guys.

[Chisoxfn]

There may be a hard cap, but the chances of it being $45 mil are basically zero.

 

You know how many teams have a payroll below $45 mil right now?

 

The answer is one: the Sacramento Kings at $44 mil.

 

They are the only team under $52 mil in salary and 22 of them are above $64 mil.

 

That's just WAY too huge a dropoff to be practical.

I don't disagree and it is a negotiation, but still, I was blown away that the owners were going to be starting that low.

[Balta1701]

I don't disagree and it is a negotiation, but still, I was blown away that the owners were going to be starting that low.

Probably about 1/2 the teams in the NBA are close to their break-even point at $50 million player salary.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't disagree and it is a negotiation, but still, I was blown away that the owners were going to be starting that low.

 

They can ask for whatever they want, and they know the players will cave before they do.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say it gets settled at a $60 mil hard cap with higher revenue sharing.

 

Of course this is all frutrating to the fans because the system isn't the reason that so many marginal to decent players are making $7-15 mil and that is the real problem.

[RockRaines]

And I'm not saying that is what it ultimately takes. But those close to Howard indicate he wants to go to Chicago or LA. Many think LA is a huge favorite since they should be able to create cap space to sign him outright as a FA. It all comes down to how scared does Orlando get and how much of an ass can Dwight become.

 

Personally, If I were Orlando, I'd do what I could to win a title next year cause that might just help you save Dwight.

If I am Orlando I am holding onto Dwight until I get a package of young players and a TON of draft picks in the 2012 drafts and beyond. I dont like the prospect of needing to trade him for another Big man either since that guy wont feel his shoes anyway. You get best players offered regardless of position and team and collect as many picks as you can. There are a few decent players coming up through HS and college that MAY be able to help you out down the road, you never know if an Anthony Davis or someone could be the next Durant or Melo.

Edited May 17, 2011 by RockRaines

[Soxbadger]

The problem is that a salary cap is both a floor and a ceiling.

 

If you have a cap, almost every team spends to the cap each year, which means that mediocre players get paid because the team has nothing else to do with the money and fans will crucify them for leaving cap space on the table.

 

An interesting idea would be to set a cap at $50mil and allow teams to buy/trade up to $10mil of cap from other teams. That would prevent a team from throwing away $5-7 mil on a bad player because they would gain an advantage by saving cap and playing a younger guy who maybe turns out to be good.

[southsider2k5]

I don't disagree and it is a negotiation, but still, I was blown away that the owners were going to be starting that low.

 

The bright side is Miami would be screwed. They owe over $20 million each to the Big Three even in 2015-2016.

[ZoomSlowik]

The problem is that a salary cap is both a floor and a ceiling.

 

If you have a cap, almost every team spends to the cap each year, which means that mediocre players get paid because the team has nothing else to do with the money and fans will crucify them for leaving cap space on the table.

 

An interesting idea would be to set a cap at $50mil and allow teams to buy/trade up to $10mil of cap from other teams. That would prevent a team from throwing away $5-7 mil on a bad player because they would gain an advantage by saving cap and playing a younger guy who maybe turns out to be good.

 

Two comments:

 

1) I do like your idea, but I doubt it is implemented.

 

2) The problem is that marginal players get paid plenty anyways. Go check out the Hoops Hype salary resource sometimes and laugh at some of the amazingly ridiculous contracts that are handed out.

 

Some of the things will help. A hard cap will prevent a team from overspending on role players just because they can and the shortened guaranteed deals will lessen the impact for injuries/stupid contracts.

 

However, the only way to "fix" the system is to convince teams that good but not great players shouldn't be making $16 mil a year and that fringe starters and backup big men shouldn't be getting $7 or 8 mil a year. Those are the deals that are killing teams.

Edited May 17, 2011 by ZoomSlowik