2010-2011 NBA Thread

[bmags]

So basically a black Kyle Korver with a little more explosive scoring ability at over $35 million dollars through 2014? No thanks.

 

I agree that gordon at that price is not a good fit. But, it's not the "more explosive scoring ability" by itself. Kyle Korver can't dribble, and panics when people play up on him. At least gordon can put the ball down, and even drive. He is a much better all around offensive player.

[Balta1701]

And at the low, low rate of only...

 

11-12 $11,600,000

12-13 $12,400,000

13-14 $13,200,000 (Player Option)

 

/discussion

Under this set of cap rules, I couldn't care less.

 

Under hypothetical future rules...perhaps.

[kjshoe04]

Why all the fascination with Gordon? Jamal Crawford is a free agent this summer, we might as well go sign him if we want a guy who can create, get hot once in a while, and play no defense. At least Crawford has the height to possibly defend 2s.

I said the exact same thing but just deleted it after realizing the Bulls have no cap space and would need to trade to acquire someone.

[Balta1701]

I said the exact same thing but just deleted it after realizing the Bulls have no cap space and would need to trade to acquire someone.

Do we genuinely think that Crawford will get an offer bigger than a couple of seasons at the Mid-Level Exemption this offseason?

 

Under the current cap rules, he'd be a reasonable pickup as well.

[chw42]

I said the exact same thing but just deleted it after realizing the Bulls have no cap space and would need to trade to acquire someone.

 

They could wait until the new CBA gets done and see what happens. Chances are, if there is a hard cap, no teams can afford Crawford and the Bulls are one of the few teams who can still offer him a decent deal since they are one of 4-5 teams currently under the salary cap.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I agree that gordon at that price is not a good fit. But, it's not the "more explosive scoring ability" by itself. Kyle Korver can't dribble, and panics when people play up on him. At least gordon can put the ball down, and even drive. He is a much better all around offensive player.

 

You're operating under the assumption that he's even the same player he was last he was here. He's been awful as a Piston. Is that coaching, system, bad teammates? Who knows. But at that price, you want somebody that can put you over the top. And that's just not Ben Gordon.

[Balta1701]

You're operating under the assumption that he's even the same player he was last he was here. He's been awful as a Piston. Is that coaching, system, bad teammates? Who knows. But at that price, you want somebody that can put you over the top. And that's just not Ben Gordon.

The 2009 Ben Gordon could still have a shot at legitimately putting this team over the top. The question is probability.

[Steve9347]

The 2009 Ben Gordon could still have a shot at legitimately putting this team over the top. The question is probability.

The 2009 Ben Gordon isn't much better than the 2010 Kyle Korver.

[Balta1701]

The 2009 Ben Gordon isn't much better than the 2010 Kyle Korver.

Kyle Korver could never, ever, ever have done that to the Celtics.

[Chisoxfn]

I can understand people trying to get creative. But don't look at the names. Look at where they're at, at this point in their careers. Ben Gordon guarding Wade? lol.

 

 

 

So basically a black Kyle Korver with a little more explosive scoring ability at over $35 million dollars through 2014? No thanks.

Are you guys serious? Kyle Korver isn't even close to the player Ben Gordon has been the majority of his career.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The 2009 Ben Gordon isn't much better than the 2010 Kyle Korver.

 

I don't know if I'd go that far. Ben at least was capable of dropping 35 on any given night. Though his efficiency has always sucked. But his defense is just too brutal. Not even TT can cover him up. DRtg (defensive rating) is a solid, if not perfect, tool of measuring individual defensive performance. In the last three years, Ben has allowed an astounding 112, 114 and 115 points per 100 possessions. That's just too much fail.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Jordan4life

[bmags]

You're operating under the assumption that he's even the same player he was last he was here. He's been awful as a Piston. Is that coaching, system, bad teammates? Who knows. But at that price, you want somebody that can put you over the top. And that's just not Ben Gordon.

 

Yeah, I am assuming a bounce back which isn't smart. But I wouldn't mind a player like BG over Korver's role. Korver can and should should lights out, but he can only hit baskets pretty wide open and can't put the ball down.

[Balta1701]

Are you guys serious? Kyle Korver isn't even close to the player Ben Gordon has been the majority of his career.

The problem is that Ben Gordon with the Pistons has been less effective than Kyle Korver has been the last 2 years.

[Chisoxfn]

The problem is that Ben Gordon with the Pistons has been less effective than Kyle Korver has been the last 2 years.

That part I don't disagree with. However, I see plenty of reasons why his struggles there could go away and in this instance, given the current state of the CBA there is no harm from us as a fans perspective in making this trade.

 

Gordon has a high probability of being far better than Korver (imo) and we get the #8 pick for two lower 1sts and end up with Bogans back anyway. I just don't see how you could have a problem with this hypothetical deal. Doesn't really impact our cap status other than Jerry would have to pay some luxury tax (again, this is all under the current salary arrangement).

[Balta1701]

That part I don't disagree with. However, I see plenty of reasons why his struggles there could go away and in this instance, given the current state of the CBA there is no harm from us as a fans perspective in making this trade.

 

Gordon has a high probability of being far better than Korver (imo) and we get the #8 pick for two lower 1sts and end up with Bogans back anyway. I just don't see how you could have a problem with this hypothetical deal. Doesn't really impact our cap status other than Jerry would have to pay some luxury tax (again, this is all under the current salary arrangement).

Also worth noting is that even after trading for BG7 and the 8th pick, under the current system, the Bulls would still have the MLE and veterans exemptions available to go after additional depth.

 

Presumably however, most of that is going to change.

[Steve9347]

Kyle Korver could never, ever, ever have done that to the Celtics.

I thought you were talking 2009-2010 Gordon, not 2008-2009 Gordon.

[whitesoxfan99]

Though his efficiency has always sucked.

 

That simply isn't true. For his last 3 years with the Bulls his FG% was around 45%, he shot over 40% from 3 and over 85% from the line. His true shooting percentage He was a more efficient scorer each of his last three years with the Bulls than Rose was this year. His career TS% and eFG% are comparable to Kobe Bryant. He has some serious flaws, but efficiency as a scorer wasn't one of them. If you are getting the Ben Gordon from the Bulls you are getting a guy who is so vastly superior to Korver as a player that it is an insult to Gordon to even compare the two. Whether that guy still exists though is obviously impossible to know. Gordon in a 6th man scorer role would be a big upgrade for the Bulls.

[Steve9347]

Sam Smith has some ideas:link

 

 

 

So here’s proposal 1: Joe Johnson.

 

It obviously would take Noah, and it might not be possible with Noah a base year player now, though there’s been talk of eliminating base year in the labor agreement. Johnson didn’t have a great season after scoring the biggest contract in free agency, and you sensed he’d taken the money and run from where he wanted to be, Chicago. Yes, he’s 30 this summer, but not a high flier who needs explosiveness. So he shouldn’t decline much. His contract is huge, which is why the Hawks might prefer to go with Jamal Crawford. And they’d love Noah to move Al Horford to power forward. Maybe it makes Atlanta too good. Johnson would look good with Rose and need plenty of attention, and a rotation of Asik, Boozer, Gibson and maybe Thomas would certainly be enough defensively.

 

Proposal 2: Monta Ellis.

 

He’s one of my longtime favorites. He’s not the defender Johnson is, which could be an issue. But his quickness with Rose would make that backcourt unguardable. Golden State hasn’t been sure how to use him and Stephen Curry and you figure they’d love a center like Noah to go with David Lee. Maybe the deals builds and the Bulls can revive Andris Biedrins.

 

Proposal No. 3: Kevin Martin.

 

There has been no indication the Rockets would deal him. But you figure with Kevin McHale now as head coach they’ll be anxious to get a big man, as McHale is a great tutor with big men and accelerated Kevin Garnett’s development. The Rockets pushed hard for Omer Asik last winter when the Bulls were supposedly pursuing Courtney Lee. I could see the Rockets more seeking to move the much higher earning Martin. Perhaps Yao Ming returns in limited minutes and you’d have a pretty good front line with Asik and Luis Scola. Martin makes $11.5 million next season, which would require the Bulls adding players like Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer to make a deal. You wouldn’t move Asik for Lee. But for a 20-point type scorer like Martin, though a poor defender, perhaps you’d have to listen. Martin and Derrick Rose likely would be the highest scoring backcourt. You also assume the Rockets would go for Noah, which could require some economic gymnastics given Noah’s base year status, at least for now. Though I don’t think Noah would be worth Martin. Hasheem Thabeet, anyone?

 

I suggested Kevin Martin as the perfect fit prior to the deadline, though working something out then was obviously impossible. I love him for this roster, as he can shoot lights out and gets to the line a ton.

[Balta1701]

I'd just hate to give up Noah/Deng for any of the names being tossed around that aren't Dwight Howard.

[kjshoe04]

I'd just hate to give up Noah/Deng for any of the names being tossed around that aren't Dwight Howard.

I wouldn't mind giving up Noah as much as Deng. Asik and Gibson can fill that role nicely I believe.

[whitesoxfan99]

Also, slightly OT but LOL at Jabbar's open letter to Pippen. You have to love a guy chastising another player for lack of perspective when he has no perspective of his own. He cites Chamberlain's stats as an argument in favor of saying Chamberlain is greater than Jordan but failing to take into account that Chamberlain's stats were incredibly inflated due to the fact that games had 30 to 40 more possessions in that era and the players sucked and shot a lower percentage than they do now so there was a lot more rebounds to be had. He then proceeds to use Russell's rings as an argument against Jordan being the GOAT. Ignoring for a second that Jordan was a statistically superior player to Wilt over the course of their careers, you can't have it both ways Kareem. Jordan had 6 rings to Wilt's 2 so if you want to make an argument based on rings then Jordan blows Wilt out of the water. Also, against he cites Russell's rebounding totals as a reason Russell is an all time great. As I already pointed out, rebounding numbers were incredibly inflated due to inferior players and an incredibly faster paced game. Bringing up Russell in a greatest ever discussion is so laughable I don't even know where to begin. The guy was a great defender and obviously won an incredible amount of championships. But he played on teams loaded with all stars and hall of famers and was an average offensive basketball player. If Jordan played in that era he could score 50 in on a bad night.

Edited June 2, 2011 by whitesoxfan99

[southsider2k5]

That part I don't disagree with. However, I see plenty of reasons why his struggles there could go away and in this instance, given the current state of the CBA there is no harm from us as a fans perspective in making this trade.

 

Gordon has a high probability of being far better than Korver (imo) and we get the #8 pick for two lower 1sts and end up with Bogans back anyway. I just don't see how you could have a problem with this hypothetical deal. Doesn't really impact our cap status other than Jerry would have to pay some luxury tax (again, this is all under the current salary arrangement).

 

For me the deal would be more for the #8 pick than anything. If you think you can get your next starter to stand next to Rose for the next 6-10 years, do the deal.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know if I'd go that far. Ben at least was capable of dropping 35 on any given night. Though his efficiency has always sucked. But his defense is just too brutal. Not even TT can cover him up. DRtg (defensive rating) is a solid, if not perfect, tool of measuring individual defensive performance. In the last three years, Ben has allowed an astounding 112, 114 and 115 points per 100 possessions. That's just too much fail.

 

Ben would score 35, and his guy would score 50.

[bmags]

i don't see us taking JJ's max contract. That's just stupid. God damn it, i hate sam smith.

[southsider2k5]

I wouldn't mind giving up Noah as much as Deng. Asik and Gibson can fill that role nicely I believe.

 

Exactly. I think we have a replacement for Noah. Deng, no way.