2010-2011 NBA Thread

[fathom]

Wennington, Joel Anthony, Dalembert, Magloire, and Todd MacCulloch versus Luc Longley, Chris Anstey, David Andersen, and Andrew Bogut.

 

It's close.

 

Todd MacCulloch is one of the greatest pinball players in the world.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ben Wallace is moe Dennis Rodman than Bill Russell dude. And even thats a stretch. Ben Wallace will never enter the HOF discussion.

 

That's because he doesn't have the longevity. 10 years of his all-star play and he's easily a HOF. Remember, I never said Wallace > Russell. I said Wallace at his peak was basically Bill Russell. Russell just did it 3-4 years longer.

[RockRaines]

That's because he doesn't have the longevity. 10 years of his all-star play and he's easily a HOF. Remember, I never said Wallace > Russell. I said Wallace at his peak was basically Bill Russell. Russell just did it 3-4 years longer.

Wallace at his peak was worse than Russell's worst year statistically. So thats a tough call on that one.

[LittleHurt05]

Alright. This has obviously evolved into me against the entire board. I'm done quoting 3-4 posters at a time. It is MY opinion that Bill Russell was/is overrated. It is MY opinion that Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, hell, even Dwight Howard, would violate him. I will not deny Russell's impact and what he's meant to the game, especially during those times (as a darkie, I can obviously appreciate that). But strictly basketball related, he doesn't impress me in comparison to other all-time greats. Wilt? He'd be a monster in any era. Russell? Yes, Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace has been so irrelevant for so long that it's easy to forget how good he was from '02-'06. I wasn't even trying to insult him by comparing him to Wallace. I deem it fair. 11 titles is going to make anybody look good. That's what people look at. And that's why he's ultimately overrated.

 

I don't know if I agree with your Ben Wallace comparisons, but I do agree that he is overrated due to the titles in a league with only 8/9 teams. People just see the titles and automatically try to put him up in GOAT territory where he doesn't belong.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

[Jordan4life_2007]

Wallace at his peak was worse than Russell's worst year statistically. So thats a tough call on that one.

 

And how do you come to this conclusion without the advanced metrics? They were/are both terrible offensively. They thrived defensively and on the boards.

[RockRaines]

And how do you come to this conclusion without the advanced metrics? They were/are both terrible offensively. They thrived defensively and on the boards.

On the boards was all I was looking at. Wallace's best year was not as good as Russells worst year. Overall Russell avg'ed more than double the boards Wallace did, and no advanced metric will be able to paint that differently. Wallace, even at his peak, is a very poor comparison to Russell. You could probably find a much better player to compare to Russell.

 

I'm not a fan of advanced metrics in BBALL, but what would be sufficient? Win shares, defensive win shares?

Edited June 13, 2011 by RockRaines

[MurcieOne]

Ben Wallace > Babe Ruth.

 

I agree with someone who posted earlier. Impossible and futile to compare players from different eras, with different rules, different training methods.

[southsider2k5]

On the boards was all I was looking at. Wallace's best year was not as good as Russells worst year. Overall Russell avg'ed more than double the boards Wallace did, and no advanced metric will be able to paint that differently. Wallace, even at his peak, is a very poor comparison to Russell. You could probably find a much better player to compare to Russell.

 

I'm not a fan of advanced metrics in BBALL, but what would be sufficient? Win shares, defensive win shares?

 

Not to mention with the Celtics being the Yankees of the NBA, if Russell was really that overrated in his era, we'd all know about it. We hear constantly about people being overrated because of their time with the Yankees. I haven't heard that said before about Russell.

[WHarris1]

I agree with someone who posted earlier. Impossible and futile to compare players from different eras, with different rules, different training methods.

And the solution to this? compare players RELATIVE TO THEIR ERA.

[Jordan4life_2007]

On the boards was all I was looking at. Wallace's best year was not as good as Russells worst year. Overall Russell avg'ed more than double the boards Wallace did, and no advanced metric will be able to paint that differently. Wallace, even at his peak, is a very poor comparison to Russell. You could probably find a much better player to compare to Russell.

 

I'm not a fan of advanced metrics in BBALL, but what would be sufficient? Win shares, defensive win shares?

 

You can't use standard stats for players that played 40 years apart. The advanced stats aren't perfect. But there the best tool(s) we have to compare players or teams across eras. Russell was so damn long ago that BR doesn't have any of the necessary stats listed for him that would make this a legitimate debate. Rebound rate and DRtg (defensive rating: points allowed per 100 possessions) are the stats I would like to use in this case. But like I said, they're not there for Russell.

[bmags]

speaking of, what's the new top ten player rankings?

[Soxfest]

Lebron I have as many rings as you and I am going back to my life today. CHOCKER!

[HuskyCaucasian]

Dwight Howard says that he won't sign a contract extension and will become a free agent in 2012

 

Dwight Howard continues to say his preference is to remain with the Orlando Magic for the long haul, but according to NBA.com, he reiterated on Monday that he has no plans to sign the contract extension the team has offered him and said he plans to become a free agent in the summer of 2012.

 

During a stop in Treviso, Italy, during his adidas promotional tour of Europe, Howard told an NBA.com reporter what he's been saying for a week now: that he's told the team's owners that the Magic need to upgrade their roster.

 

According to NBA.com, Howard said: "I just told them, 'We've got to have guys who are going to play hard 48 minutes and who are going to battle the other team, who are going to fight night-in and night-out for a championship.' "

 

Howard's contract with the Magic runs through the 2012-13 season, but he can terminate the deal one year early and become a free agent in July 2012.

.....

Asked by NBA.com's reporter whether the entire Magic roster is committed to winning a title, Howard answered, "It's off and on. Sometimes guys are there whole-heartedly and then sometimes I've had teammates allow people getting in their ears and things like that affect the way that they play and approach the game."

 

Still, Howard continued to say his preference is to remain with the Magic.

 

"There's no other place I'd rather be besides Orlando," he said. "As of right now, that's my home. I just want to stay in Orlando as long as I can.

 

"That's the truth. I don't have to keep things calm or anything. This is how I really feel in my heart. A lot of people want to see me go other places, but I want to stay in Orlando. I have a beautiful home there. There are beautiful people down there. My son is in Orlando. He's getting a lot older and I want to be there to see as many moments as I can of his life."

[MurcieOne]

Dwight Howard says that he won't sign a contract extension and will become a free agent in 2012

 

Is there any way Gar/Pax can make this happen? Seriously. Please? Dwight seems to have a soft-spot for "fast don't lie" despite the fact that he has swatted him around like a fly in past meetings.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Whatever it takes. Get Howard. Aside from dealing Rose, of course. Rose/Howard=dynasty.

[southsider2k5]

Is there any way Gar/Pax can make this happen? Seriously. Please? Dwight seems to have a soft-spot for "fast don't lie" despite the fact that he has swatted him around like a fly in past meetings.

 

Really. I think right now, there might not be a team more dedicated to winning than the Bulls. I don't know if the Bulls can do this without gutting their team though.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Anyone should be free game other than Rose for Howard.

[ZoomSlowik]

And how do you come to this conclusion without the advanced metrics? They were/are both terrible offensively. They thrived defensively and on the boards.

 

Again, you need to stop lumping Russell into the same tier of offensive awfulness as Ben Wallace.

 

Russell could pass and dribble, Wallace could not. Bill averaged 4.3 assists per game for his career and they frequently ran the offense through him after Cousy retired.

 

Also, his field goal percentages are not as awful as they look when you consider the era. The league shooting percentage was 46% this year. It was far lower in Russell's day due to the style of play. Teams basically took the first "decent" shot they could get, which is why the pace was so high. His first three seasons the league shooting percentage was below 40% and it was between 41 and 44 the rest of his career.

 

He only had one season where he shot significantly below the league average (-2.1% in 67-68) and 5 where he shot considerably over (4.7, 5.9, 6.2 and 5.7 percentage points his first four years and 3.1 points above in his 6th year). His other 7 years he was in the -1 to 1 range.

 

So basically he was roughly a league average shooter in 7 of his 13 seasons, below in one, and WELL over in 5 while averaging 15 PPG. That has significant value offensively, certainly better than Wallace's meager 6 PPG at a 47.5% clip in a far better shooting league.

Edited June 13, 2011 by ZoomSlowik

[MexSoxFan#1]

The Miami Heat are unbeatable.

[RockRaines]

Is there any way Gar/Pax can make this happen? Seriously. Please? Dwight seems to have a soft-spot for "fast don't lie" despite the fact that he has swatted him around like a fly in past meetings.

Move whatever you can to make this happen.

[Balta1701]

Under the current rules, the Bulls have 3 players under contract after 2012: Boozer, Deng, and Noah. Problem is, that alone is $41 million against the cap. In addition, the Bulls have a 2013 option on Taj Gibson they'd be likely to pick up, and there's this point guard that they need to extend.

 

Under the current rules, in order to make a max contract Free Agency offer to Dwight Howard, the Bulls would need to turn 2 of Boozer, Deng, and Noah into expiring contracts this year.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Whatever it takes. Get Howard. Aside from dealing Rose, of course. Rose/Howard=dynasty.

 

I'll not jump the gun and call them a dynasty but we would be in great shape to compete for a championship.

Edited June 13, 2011 by MexSoxFan#1

[Jenksismyhero]

Really. I think right now, there might not be a team more dedicated to winning than the Bulls. I don't know if the Bulls can do this without gutting their team though.

 

And how does this make them that much better? They're already the number one defensive team out there. They played well enough on that end of the floor against the Heat. The problem was scoring. Dwight doesn't give you that, especially in the 4th quarter. We need a legit, all star 2 guard or small forward. Someone like Jason Terry. Someone that can hit shots consistently when Rose penetrates.

[southsider2k5]

And how does this make them that much better? They're already the number one defensive team out there. They played well enough on that end of the floor against the Heat. The problem was scoring. Dwight doesn't give you that, especially in the 4th quarter. We need a legit, all star 2 guard or small forward. Someone like Jason Terry. Someone that can hit shots consistently when Rose penetrates.

 

A legitimate post player changes that series. The only one we had couldn't get a shot off that wasn't a jumper. If the Bulls have a guy in the post, the floor opens up because they can't cheat and double.