2010-2011 NBA Thread

[DBAHO]

Knicks are skidding, Magic only played decent for bout half the game tonight still won by 12. Only 14 TO's, which is a big time improvement for us.

 

MVP race should be down to 2 now.

 

And you think the Celtics are missing Kendrick Perkins right now? Ourebounded tonight by 6, and Jeff Green a -8 off the bench. Miami only a game and a half back now.

 

I think the Bulls have got the #1 seed wrapped up.

[daa84]

Knicks are skidding, Magic only played decent for bout half the game tonight still won by 12. Only 14 TO's, which is a big time improvement for us.

 

MVP race should be down to 2 now.

 

And you think the Celtics are missing Kendrick Perkins right now? Ourebounded tonight by 6, and Jeff Green a -8 off the bench. Miami only a game and a half back now.

 

I think the Bulls have got the #1 seed wrapped up.

the bulls certainly have a favorable schedule left...

 

memphis, @milwaukee, philadelphia, @minnesota, @detroit, toronto, phoenix - thats a pretty easy next 7 games

 

then they finish with boston at home (will be a huge game), @ cleveland, @ orlando (preveiw of conference semis?), @ new york, new jersey

 

 

[DBAHO]

This should get people talkin;

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/3/24/2068...ssell-westbrook

 

The basic per-game statistics for Rose and Westbrook are seriously similar. Rose averages 24.9 points and 7.8 assists per game; Westbrook is at 22.2 and 8.3. Each shoots 44 percent from the floor and a touch below average -- 34 percent for Rose, 33 percent for Westbrook -- from long-range. Westbrook draws almost eight free throws a game and shoots them quite well; Rose draws seven FTs on average, and shoots them quite well. Westbrook averages 4.6 rebounds per game; Rose, 4.2. Westbrook gives up 3.9 turnovers, Rose 3.4. Just under two steals for Westbrook, just more than one for Rose.

[southsider2k5]

individual statistics are a terrible measure for MVP.

[Steve9347]

individual statistics are a terrible measure for MVP.

EYE TEST

[southsider2k5]

EYE TEST

 

Let me put it this way.

 

#1 Westbrook isn't even the most valuable player on his own team.

#2 Take Rose off of the Bulls, and take Westbrook off of the Thunder, which team crashes more?

#3 The Bulls are the #1 team in the East. OKC is 4th.

#4 The system the Thunder run is much more friendly to individual stats, versus the system the Bulls run.

#5 If stats are the big deal, then we shouldn't talk about either Rose or Westbrook, take it to its logical conclusion, and make someone like Kevin Love MVP, because his stats are awesomeness.

[MurcieOne]

Let me put it this way.

 

#1 Westbrook isn't even the most valuable player on his own team.

#2 Take Rose off of the Bulls, and take Westbrook off of the Thunder, which team crashes more?

#3 The Bulls are the #1 team in the East. OKC is 4th.

#4 The system the Thunder run is much more friendly to individual stats, versus the system the Bulls run.

#5 If stats are the big deal, then we shouldn't talk about either Rose or Westbrook, take it to its logical conclusion, and make someone like Kevin Love MVP, because his stats are awesomeness.

 

Someone ate their Wheaties this morning. Good analysis, Mike.

[Steve9347]

Someone ate their Wheaties this morning. Good analysis, Mike.

BOOM

[DBAHO]

Let me put it this way.

 

#1 Westbrook isn't even the most valuable player on his own team.

#2 Take Rose off of the Bulls, and take Westbrook off of the Thunder, which team crashes more?

#3 The Bulls are the #1 team in the East. OKC is 4th.

#4 The system the Thunder run is much more friendly to individual stats, versus the system the Bulls run.

#5 If stats are the big deal, then we shouldn't talk about either Rose or Westbrook, take it to its logical conclusion, and make someone like Kevin Love MVP, because his stats are awesomeness.

#4 I would have a query on.

 

Scott Brooks is a defense first type of coach similar to Thibodeau really. You'd think Westbrook would have even better numbers if he played under a coach such as D'Antoni or Alvin Gentry for example.

[SoxFan1]

This should get people talkin;

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/3/24/2068...ssell-westbrook

Westbrook has Durant. Rose has Boozer.

[witesoxfan]

#4 I would have a query on.

 

Scott Brooks is a defense first type of coach similar to Thibodeau really. You'd think Westbrook would have even better numbers if he played under a coach such as D'Antoni or Alvin Gentry for example.

 

You can debate one of the five. I think the point has been made.

[chw42]

This should get people talkin;

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/3/24/2068...ssell-westbrook

 

Wesbrook vs. Rose isn't even all that close. Rose is beating Westbrook in Win Shares by almost 3 entire wins (11-8). They're very similar offensive players, but Rose is by far the better defender. Westbrook's assist numbers look good because of that dude named Kevin Durant. Westbrook also has a 45% eFG overall compared to Rose's 48%, meaning Westbrook is taking a lot less 3s than Rose (the similar 3 point percentages then don't really speak the truth as to who is the better 3 point shooter). If you look at how each of these guys take their shots, Rose is the better jump shooter and also finishes better on drives and inside the paint. The only thing that Westbrook is better than Rose at offensively is drawing fouls - which is not really a skill, but in the hands of the referees. I don't know how many times people have complained that Rose doesn't get enough calls - well, he has lately and I think that's going to continue as his reputation gets stronger.

 

I really don't think there's much of a debate as to who is better between the two. Only in the ever-so-broken PER do these two look remotely close. Better stats related to win shares show that there's a much higher disparity between the two.

Edited March 24, 2011 by chw42

[Brian]

There are a lot of MVP candidates. Everyone has different criteria. But Rose is winning it anyway.

 

Love watching McGee blocking shots on highlight reel. Now Griffin knows what it is like to be owned at the rim.

[Vote4Pedro]

Convenient. You should be a Bucks fan.

haha thats a big negative there....never liked the bears and never will like the bears....im not the only one on here that feel that way either

[Rowand44]

There are a lot of MVP candidates. Everyone has different criteria. But Rose is winning it anyway.

 

Love watching McGee blocking shots on highlight reel. Now Griffin knows what it is like to be owned at the rim.

Ya, Rose has this pretty locked up at this point it would seem.

 

That was kind of an odd play, Blake seemed to stumble a bit and didn't get quite the elevation he usually does but McGee certainly swatted him good. That being said, Blake got his payback later in the game.

[Felix]

Anthony... Randolph? What?

[DBAHO]

Wesbrook vs. Rose isn't even all that close. Rose is beating Westbrook in Win Shares by almost 3 entire wins (11-8). They're very similar offensive players, but Rose is by far the better defender. Westbrook's assist numbers look good because of that dude named Kevin Durant. Westbrook also has a 45% eFG overall compared to Rose's 48%, meaning Westbrook is taking a lot less 3s than Rose (the similar 3 point percentages then don't really speak the truth as to who is the better 3 point shooter). If you look at how each of these guys take their shots, Rose is the better jump shooter and also finishes better on drives and inside the paint. The only thing that Westbrook is better than Rose at offensively is drawing fouls - which is not really a skill, but in the hands of the referees. I don't know how many times people have complained that Rose doesn't get enough calls - well, he has lately and I think that's going to continue as his reputation gets stronger.

 

I really don't think there's much of a debate as to who is better between the two. Only in the ever-so-broken PER do these two look remotely close. Better stats related to win shares show that there's a much higher disparity between the two.

I'll take Westbrook as a better defender over Rose.

 

I think the Durant argument is an interesting one also. Now that Jeff Green isn't there, James Harden is really the only other guy who can score on that team, and he's a sixth man. Rose doesn't have the quality of player of Durant on his team, but he has more scoring options alongside him as well.

 

FWIW, here's another article arguing why Rose shouldn't be MVP;

 

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...better-choices/

 

All told, Rose and Iverson’s MVP campaigns are almost eerily similar. Each player was worth approximately 6-7 points of on-court offensive rating above average for a middling offensive team, and each was essentially an average defender on a very strong defensive squad. Each man’s role was to carry the offense (almost single-handedly — with apologies to Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, & Aaron McKie) and let his surrounding role players handle their defensive duties.

[Rowand44]

People are seriously just becoming haters now. No joke.

[Felix]

Derrick Rose is having a very good season, and the Bulls are an excellent team. That's reason enough why he'll win MVP.

 

I don't think he's the most deserving candidate statistically, but I don't think anyone really gives a s*** about the statistical difference between him and Howard (which is really stupid IMO). They look at the teams and leave it at that. All in all, I think that Howard impacts the game much more than Rose does, and given his statistical edge over Rose, I think Howard deserves a lot more talk than he's been getting.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Rose isn't having a good season, but I certainly think it's fair to criticize his game, which most Bulls fans treat as treason.

 

Also -- and I'm likely going to take a lot of heat for this but whatever -- all the talk about Rose improving his three-point shot is overrated. Yes, it's better than it was last year. But no, it's still not good and he still shouldn't be taking nearly five a game. I don't care what you tell me about how many he's made, he's a below league average three-point shooter that shoots as if he's elite. He's not. Stop using this as a point for his MVP candidacy. It's stupid.

 

I also really don't buy the argument that was brought up a few pages ago (from Bleacher Report of all places, talk about a credible source ) that Rose shoots more because he knows he has Noah and Boozer below the basket. It's bulls***. Rose shoots because he's a scorer. It's his mentality. The fact that he has Noah rebounding for him doesn't have a significant impact on his shots per game. It's like saying Carmelo Anthony is going to shoot more if he has a good rebounding big man. Bulls***, he's going to shoot 20+ times a game REGARDLESS of his teammates. Maybe there are one or two plays every now and again where he might toss it up carelessly because he has a guy in position under the basket, but that's not going to have a significant impact on his shots per game average to hold any water.

 

Rose is having a fantastic season, and the fact that only four(ish) other players in league history have ever had his points, rebounds and assists averages or better over a season is a pretty ridiculous stat (although also cherrypicking, but that doesn't mean it's not impressive). But if we're talking about the player who has had the best season and the biggest impact on the games they play, the answer is Dwight Howard.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Felix

[DBAHO]

I don't think he's the most deserving candidate statistically, but I don't think anyone really gives a s*** about the statistical difference between him and Howard (which is really stupid IMO). They look at the teams and leave it at that. All in all, I think that Howard impacts the game much more than Rose does, and given his statistical edge over Rose, I think Howard deserves a lot more talk than he's been getting.

 

JVG made a real interesting point on the NYK vs ORL broadcast last night.

 

He basically said Orlando would be as bad as what Cleveland would be this season if they didn't have Howard, which considering how badly the rest of the supporting cast has played this season, I would actually agree with.

 

I certainly don't think Rose will be the worst MVP winner of all time, he is deserving, but it shows you how much playing for a big market team and being the jewel in the media's eyes, how important that type of stuff can be I guess.

 

I mean the reason the Bulls have improved so much this season, isn't because of an offensive improvement (they've only improved from 18th to 12th IIRC). It's because of defense, and that takes the whole team to buy into the system and become so good at it.

[SoxFan562004]

JVG made a real interesting point on the NYK vs ORL broadcast last night.

 

He basically said Orlando would be as bad as what Cleveland would be this season if they didn't have Howard, which considering how badly the rest of the supporting cast has played this season, I would actually agree with.

 

I certainly don't think Rose will be the worst MVP winner of all time, he is deserving, but it shows you how much playing for a big market team and being the jewel in the media's eyes, how important that type of stuff can be I guess.

 

I mean the reason the Bulls have improved so much this season, isn't because of an offensive improvement (they've only improved from 18th to 12th IIRC). It's because of defense, and that takes the whole team to buy into the system and become so good at it.

So moving 6 spots in a 30 team league isn't signifcant? That's a 20% increase if your numbers are right. OK, maybe Orlando would be a suck fest without Howard, they're the 4th best team recordwise in the east right now and the Bulls have the best record in the East and 2nd in the whole NBA. Bulls would be in the soup of Indiana, NYK, Philly at the bottom half of the playoff race without Rose likely.

[Steve9347]

Haters gonna hate.

 

I love this Bulls team. They have great personalities, great team players, and a great hometown superstar. I grew up with Jordan's Bulls... I was 8 when they won their first Championship. I didn't get to see them becoming great, they were just the great Bulls I loved to watch with little actual understanding of the greatness I was watching... the second three-peat I obviously understood the greatness, but had no way to appreciate it.

 

Being a huge Bulls fan, and a connoisseur of the NBA since Jordan left (and one of the many Bulls fans who suffered through the likes of E-Rob, Jalen Rose, Brent Barry etc, and got excited when our Curry/Chandler/Hinrich/Gordon team was good enough to finally make the playoffs)... this season has been a shockingly incredible surprise in a league that doesn't normally lend itself to surprises.

 

I'm enjoying the hell out of this run, and really enjoying the fact that the team is only improving as the season moves along. The Bulls have as good a chance as anyone to win the NBA Title just months after the Miami Heat were prematurely celebrating the NBA title.

 

Every game is a treat, and I recommend everyone sit back and enjoy the ride. This is a truly original storyline in NBA history. If this team does manage to win the Championship, it will unseat any of those Jordan teams in my eyes in terms of being MY team... if that makes any sense.

[Vote4Pedro]

Being a huge Bulls fan, and a connoisseur of the NBA since Jordan left (and one of the many Bulls fans who suffered through the likes of E-Rob, Jalen Rose, Brent Barry etc, and got excited when our Curry/Chandler/Hinrich/Gordon team was good enough to finally make the playoffs)... this season has been a shockingly incredible surprise in a league that doesn't normally lend itself to surprises.

oh that was horrible wasnt it.....having to endure watching dikie simpkins, randy brown, hersey hawkins, and corey benjamin....god that was a horrible couple seasons

[Jordan4life_2007]

oh that was horrible wasnt it.....having to endure watching dikie simpkins, randy brown, hersey hawkins, and corey benjamin....god that was a horrible couple seasons

 

Couple? We were the Clippers for 6 years. I think we won more games in 96 than from '99-'04 combined.

[Brian]

Ron Mercer. Ugh