2010-2011 NBA Thread

[chw42]

I think a possible argument as to why Howard shouldn't win MVP over Rose actually comes down to how they are used during crunch time. The notion of clutch might actually be a lot more important in basketball than a slow paced sport like baseball, simply because there's that notion of the race against the clock. Basketball in the final 5 minutes is played a whole lot differently than basketball outside of those 5 minutes. Baseball still remains baseball, for the most part, even in late game situations.

 

So in terms of clutch statistics, Rose is one of the most effective. His 69% winning% (based on ORtg and DRtg) in clutch situations is the second highest out of all the MVP candidates you can think of (Dirk has the best at 77%).

 

Howard, James, Wade, and Kobe hover around the 55-60% range, much, much lower than their normal percentages. This is normal, as in baseball and any sport out there, performing in the clutch is different than performing in a neutral situation.

 

What is different about Howard than all the other candidates is how much he's being used. I don't have the actual usage numbers, but per 48 minutes, he's getting up 9 shots in the last 5 minutes of a close game. The other guys? Nowitzki is getting 25, Kobe is taking 38, Rose is taking 37, LeBron is taking 29, Durant is taking 30, you get the idea...

 

Howard is the only MVP candidate that the team is not depending on to score when it comes to late situations. Orlando has a winning percentage of .580 in close games, compared to .620 by the Bulls, .630 by OKC, and .650 by the Lakers. There's probably a reason for that. Their best player is not the one taking the big shots in the end.

 

And I don't think I'd want Howard taking the shots at the end of the game, especially if they are free throws, which he is shooting 67% on in clutch situations, compared to the 80-90% you're seeing from the other candidates. One of the biggest things people look at in the NBA is how players perform in crunch time. Jordan is who he is partly because of how great of a closer he was.

 

Dwight's overall numbers and efficiency numbers are better than Rose and some of the other MVP candidates. But Howard is missing a huge component that all the other candidates have and it's definitely one that matters in the eyes of just about everyone.

[chw42]

His analysis makes a ton of sense though. I hope the Bulls bring him back next year, preferably as a coach, but I would be fine with a role like this year's.

 

He works with Asik a ton and is probably is big reason why Omer has developed so quickly.

 

He sure hasn't taught Omer how to use his hands though...lol.

 

You're right though, his analysis was very good. I'd be surprised if he isn't in some NBA broadcasts once he retires.

[joejoesox]

In case you guys missed this, you definitely need to read the whole article. This pretty much solidifies why Rose is the MVP over Howard.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/643843-...tear-their-eyes

 

and CHW42, I totally agree with your commenta bout Howard at the end of games. He's a black hole and the ball is kept away from him because of the fact that he can't hit free throws. Howard is a weakness at the end of games, Rose is a huge strength.

 

imagine when Rose learns the PNR with Boozer?

[Felix]

In case you guys missed this, you definitely need to read the whole article. This pretty much solidifies why Rose is the MVP over Howard.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/643843-...tear-their-eyes

 

and CHW42, I totally agree with your commenta bout Howard at the end of games. He's a black hole and the ball is kept away from him because of the fact that he can't hit free throws. Howard is a weakness at the end of games, Rose is a huge strength.

 

imagine when Rose learns the PNR with Boozer?

Well, I mean, if it's said on BLEACHER REPORT, it must be true.

[joejoesox]

Well, I mean, if it's said on BLEACHER REPORT, it must be true.

 

I get where you're coming from, but this is unlike 99% of the articles I've read over there. This is filled with hard facts and analysis. It doesn't really fit on BR. Diamond in the rough type of article

[chw42]

Well, I mean, if it's said on BLEACHER REPORT, it must be true.

 

The guy who wrote it isn't a bad writer, per say. Not sure I agree with everything he said, but he has some decent points.

 

I don't know, this whole MVP stuff has me spinning in circles. Do I side with the stat guys or do I side with the "eye-test" people? Because neither is really making any strong cases to convince me (the Lowry vs. Rose comparisons are silly and the "go watch the game" idiots annoy me even more), even though I currently agree with the eye-test people that Rose is MVP. Part of that makes me feel guilty, since he really is statistically inferior to a lot of these other guys. Then there's also that part where I watch the games and he just wows me and is clearly one of the most dominant players in the NBA on one of the best teams in the NBA.

 

I think I'm at the point where I don't care anymore.

Edited March 26, 2011 by chw42

[knightni]

Just off the top of my head, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Ralph Sampson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bill Walton, Alonzo Mourning, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Moses Malone, Rick Smitts, Shaquille O'Neal, Robert Parrish, Mark Eaton, Dikembe Mutombo...might be missing a few more but damn.

Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Smits, O'Neal, and Mutombo are the only true 7 footers who were in their prime when Jordan played.

 

Kareem, Sampson, Walton, Malone and Parrish were past their prime (plus Malone was only 6'9").

 

Mourning was only 6'10", and Eaton was a huge stiff.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Smits, O'Neal, and Mutombo are the only true 7 footers who were in their prime when Jordan played.

 

Kareem, Sampson, Walton, Malone and Parrish were past their prime (plus Malone was only 6'9").

 

Mourning was only 6'10", and Eaton was a huge stiff.

 

Ralph Sampson was drafted a year before Jordan.

[knightni]

Ralph Sampson was drafted a year before Jordan.

His career was mediocre and short. He aged quickly.

 

His "prime" was around 5 seasons.

[southsider2k5]

His career was mediocre and short. He aged quickly.

 

His "prime" was around 5 seasons.

 

Of which were four of Jordans seasons.

[Quin]

Rose trying to will the Bulls to victory.

[Quin]

JOAKIM.

[iamshack]

Jeesh, 26 and 17 for Rose tonight? Insane...

[Quin]

Derrick. Rose.

[Vote4Pedro]

rose was unbelievable the final 3 minutes of the game....complete takeover of that game

[southsider2k5]

I don't even need to make an MVP argument for Rose right now. Just watch the last five minutes of the game.

[Rowand44]

That was an absolute f***in clinic. I don't care that it was Milwaukee and I don't care what efficiency stats say, he's your MVP, and if you witnessed this game you'd think the same way, unf***inbelievable!

[chw42]

Shoot first point guard eh?

 

Take those 17 assists and eat your words Skip Bayless.

[chw42]

That was an absolute f***in clinic. I don't care that it was Milwaukee and I don't care what efficiency stats say, he's your MVP, and if you witnessed this game you'd think the same way, unf***inbelievable!

 

He's one of the best closers in the game right now. He absolutely owned Brandon Jennings on the last 3-4 possessions of the game. Jennings isn't a good defender by any stretch, but Rose made him look silly.

 

There was that one play earlier where Jennings literally ran the other way Rose was going on Derrick's crossover, haha.

[Rowand44]

Shoot first point guard eh?

 

Take those 17 assists and eat your words Skip Bayless.

And those assists were all pretty much setting up his teammates for dunks and layups, that' what was so amazing about it. He wasn't just kicking it to a guy who was making a jumper with a defender in his face but he was getting Noah and Boozer and Taj and everyone else wide open layups, just a thing of a f***in beauty. I'm still in awe, just ridiculous.

[Quin]

I know the RealGM Bulls board came up with it, but Stacey used Windy City Assassin like three times in those last minutes. It's like how Hawk got Cuban Tank from this board.

 

Just an intriguing thought that we as fans can actually do that from our computers.

[chw42]

2.5 up on Boston with 10 left to play. 60 wins should get the first seed.

 

Bulls have 6 games left against below .500 teams (one of them being NY...hahaha). The only real challenges I see are the Celtics and Magic games. The Philadelphia one should be a good one as well. I think 7-3 is a pretty realistic expectation for the rest of the games. In that case, Boston has to go 10-1 and Miami can't get the first seed since the Bulls own the tie-breaker.

Edited March 27, 2011 by chw42

[jenksycat]

I know the RealGM Bulls board came up with it, but Stacey used Windy City Assassin like three times in those last minutes. It's like how Hawk got Cuban Tank from this board.

 

Just an intriguing thought that we as fans can actually do that from our computers.

 

Didn't Ozzie call him the Cuban Tank?

[chw42]

Didn't Ozzie call him the Cuban Tank?

 

Ozzie was definitely first.

[chw42]

I know the RealGM Bulls board came up with it, but Stacey used Windy City Assassin like three times in those last minutes. It's like how Hawk got Cuban Tank from this board.

 

Just an intriguing thought that we as fans can actually do that from our computers.

 

That name is trending on Twitter.

 

I don't know if I want D-Rose to be called Windy City Assassin. The last "Assassin" nickname given out was to Javy Vazquez (Silent Assassin by Hawk). Bad, bad memories.