RockRaines Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Lol, yes it's legitimate that someone who hates the bulls would not like their best player. But arguing that a guy who isn't even in the MVP conversation is better than the 22 year old clear favorite is moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 "efficiency" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) Do you really think you should be the one calling people out in this thread? Actually, yeah. If you don't agree with somebody fine. But people have been getting on Felix all year for dumb s***. He's obviously not a bandwagoner, as he's a Wolves fan. Anytime he gave Kevin Love justifiable praise multiple people would jump on him. He never said the dude was prime Tim Duncan. Just that he's a fabulous player. And he is. Rose is not prime Jordan. He's really f***ing good. And I think he'll get better. But the slurping is just over the top now. I'm actually more impressed with Luol Deng. He's been amazing all year. And I used to hate the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:33 PM) I preach exactly what Felix has said. Rose shouldn't be taking so many 3s. It doesn't really benefit him to be chucking so many up at a mediocre percentage. He can shoot 3 of them per game instead of 5 and guys will still play close on him at the perimeter, giving him a good chance to blow past his defender. Rose's mid-range shot is pretty good. He really needs to go back to that more (like 2-3 times more a game) instead of shooting the 3s. I'm not saying Rose should shoot less necessarily, because the Bulls need him to shoot 20-25 times a game to win. It's really just a shot selection thing. I don't know if I agree with Felix that Paul is necessarily better, but there's nothing wrong with what Felix has said. Just because he's not a Bulls fan doesn't mean his opinion doesn't matter. When you have to go to dissecting 3 point s*** rate to prove a player is better you have already lost the battle. If you had a discussion with anyone in the NBA about who the top 3 players are, is Paul even in the conversation? Nope. Rose is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Lol, yes it's legitimate that someone who hates the bulls would not like their best player. But arguing that a guy who isn't even in the MVP conversation is better than the 22 year old clear favorite is moronic. You should go read the RealGM general boards. That's some real Derrick Rose hating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:27 PM) With the cast Rose has around him, he has to be taking shots and that's why he does so. He hasn't done this in years past but part of him taking his game to the next level has been him(and most likely through Thibs telling him to do so) shooting more so than he's ever done in his life. This year, Rose took 19.7 shots a game and made 8.8. Last year, he took 17.5 and made 8.6. Essentially, he made the same number of shots per game and took two extra attempts. How is that a good move? The step forward that Rose took offensively this year was at the line. He averaged 2.4 more FTA per game this year and averaged 2.5 more makes, which is a pretty significant difference over the span of a season. If he continues to be aggressive and get to the basket, there's no reason he shouldn't continue to become an even better player. Settling for 4 threes a game when you're a below average outside shooter isn't going to get it done, and that's my biggest gripe with him. On top of that, isn't the talent level around Rose this year is better than it's ever been in the past? So wouldn't it make more sense for Rose to be shooting less and getting more looks for his improved teammates? QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) I think it looks foolish when one player is three years younger and the mvp of the league. Rose never disappears during the fourth quarter like Paul did last night. That's where Rose shines and it really separates the two IMO. All I've said is that Paul is a better overall player RIGHT NOW. Rose has potential to be a better player than Paul in the future, but he's not at that point yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) When you have to go to dissecting 3 point s*** rate to prove a player is better you have already lost the battle. If you had a discussion with anyone in the NBA about who the top 3 players are, is Paul even in the conversation? Nope. Rose is. Nobody is dissecting 3 point shooting percentage to prove Paul is better than Rose. It's parts of Rose's game that he could improve on and shot selection is one of them. If he is as aggressive in the first 40 minutes of the game as he is in the last 8, this argument wouldn't be happening, because Derrick Rose would clearly be the best player in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) Nobody is dissecting 3 point shooting percentage to prove Paul is better than Rose. It's parts of Rose's game that he could improve on and shot selection is one of them. If he is as aggressive in the first 40 minutes of the game as he is in the last 8, this argument wouldn't be happening, because Derrick Rose would clearly be the best player in the NBA. Actually that's exactly what's happening, pay attention and read the post above you. Trying to prove Paul is better than Rose, which is literally retarded. There isn't one gm in the NBA who would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) When you have to go to dissecting 3 point s*** rate to prove a player is better you have already lost the battle. If you had a discussion with anyone in the NBA about who the top 3 players are, is Paul even in the conversation? Nope. Rose is. Paul is a better player right now than Rose because he's more efficient, is a better distributer and is a difference maker on defense. Not because he's a better three point shooter than Rose is. That's my opinion. Other people disagree. Big f***ing deal. Edited April 22, 2011 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Lol, yes it's legitimate that someone who hates the bulls would not like their best player. But arguing that a guy who isn't even in the MVP conversation is better than the 22 year old clear favorite is moronic. Who gives a s*** if he hates the Bulls? He gives Rose his due. But just because he doesn't jam a Rose dildo up his ass doesn't mean he's a haterr. Is Rose the MVP? Yes. But he's hasn't had the greatest non Jordan year of all time. Nash's MVP years were better as were Paul's seasons before the injuries came into play. Does this make me a Rose hater? Oh f***ing well. Paul didn't just get worse at basketball. He's f***ing 25. If he'd rather have Paul, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Some of you guys have easily hurt feelings apparently... I'm not really going to get into that and I don't care who argues about what, but you better damn follow the board's rules. Nut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Felix @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:46 PM) Paul is a better player right now than Rose because he's more efficient, is a better distributer and is a difference maker on defense. Not because he's a better three point shooter than Rose is. Lol, terrible. You should throw in the words "pure point guard" to make your point even worse. Go ahead and rank the top 5 NBA players right now, I'd love to see this mess. Sorry I'll stop. Everyone can have their opinions no matter how in the minority you may be. Edited April 22, 2011 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:45 PM) Actually that's exactly what's happening, pay attention and read the post above you. Trying to prove Paul is better than Rose, which is literally retarded. There isn't one gm in the NBA who would agree. What part of that post did I say that Paul was better because of Rose's three point shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:45 PM) Actually that's exactly what's happening, pay attention and read the post above you. Trying to prove Paul is better than Rose, which is literally retarded. There isn't one gm in the NBA who would agree. He's pointing out flaws in Rose's game, which is fine. I don't care that his agenda is to prove Paul is better than Rose, because you can build a legitimate argument to prove that case. There's numerous numbers out there to prove this and I don't know if I agree with all of them. BUT, that is a better argument than calling somebody a retard for having a legitimate, yet different opinion. Do you know what isn't a legitimate point in the argument you're making? How do you know that no GM in the NBA would trade have Paul instead of Rose? Seriously, how do you know? You really can't prove that. I'm sure the majority would want Rose because he's A) the MVP B) only 22 and C) one of the top 5 NBA players in the league already. Are you insinuating that you think exactly like a GM? That really isn't a legit argument. I don't think "watch the games" is really a legit argument either unless the other person says some random s*** that makes no sense. Seriously, if you're going to make other people respect your argument, at least come up with something that doesn't make them want to chuck their computer out of the window. Edited April 22, 2011 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (Felix @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) All I've said is that Paul is a better overall player RIGHT NOW. Rose has potential to be a better player than Paul in the future, but he's not at that point yet. He really isn't better RIGHT NOW. Rose had a better year than Paul THIS SEASON. Which to me, means right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:52 PM) He really isn't better RIGHT NOW. Rose had a better year than Paul THIS SEASON. Which to me, means right now. Other people have arguments that say Paul was better. You can disagree with them if you want, and that's fine since I know I'm in the minority, but that doesn't mean a serious case couldn't be made. Edited April 22, 2011 by Felix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Lol, yes it's legitimate that someone who hates the bulls would not like their best player. But arguing that a guy who isn't even in the MVP conversation is better than the 22 year old clear favorite is moronic. Steve Nash won two MVPs. In neither season was he the best player in the league or even close to the MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (Felix @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) This year, Rose took 19.7 shots a game and made 8.8. Last year, he took 17.5 and made 8.6. Essentially, he made the same number of shots per game and took two extra attempts. How is that a good move? The step forward that Rose took offensively this year was at the line. He averaged 2.4 more FTA per game this year and averaged 2.5 more makes, which is a pretty significant difference over the span of a season. If he continues to be aggressive and get to the basket, there's no reason he shouldn't continue to become an even better player. Settling for 4 threes a game when you're a below average outside shooter isn't going to get it done, and that's my biggest gripe with him. On top of that, isn't the talent level around Rose this year is better than it's ever been in the past? So wouldn't it make more sense for Rose to be shooting less and getting more looks for his improved teammates? All I've said is that Paul is a better overall player RIGHT NOW. Rose has potential to be a better player than Paul in the future, but he's not at that point yet. Well that's the thing, in the first 3 quarters, he does set up his teammates and he does it a lot, especially in the first 3 quarters. The problem is, as good as this overall supporting cast is as a team, it's still not exactly the most brilliant bunch offensively. Derrick gets these guys open looks all the time(especially early in the game) but the 4th quarter is his and that's where he takes over the game and usually wins it for his team and that's where he's evolved the most, he'd be more passive in key spots in years passed but this year he knows when he needs to be extra aggressive and just will his team to a W. This is the main reason why he's head and shoulders above the other pg's in the league right now. This is stuff that stats will never pick up on but it's beyond obvious when watching these games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 10:54 PM) Steve Nash won two MVPs. In neither season was he the best player in the league or even close to the MVP. Lol. If you say so. You don't have to be the best player to win the MVP. If that's the case then give it to LeBron. And please for the love of the devil don't tell me you think Rose is or has had a better year than LeBron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Whatever with this discussion. What happens to Dwight Howard is the Magic happen to lose in the first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 11:03 PM) Lol. If you say so. You don't have to be the best player to win the MVP. If that's the case then give it to LeBron. And please for the love of the devil don't tell me you think Rose is or has had a better year than LeBron. I don't think you got the point of that post at all. It is ridiculous to base an argument of who is a better player based on being in the "MVP discussion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) I don't think you got the point of that post at all. It is ridiculous to base an argument of who is a better player based on being in the "MVP discussion." Ahhh. My fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 In other news, Brandon Roy is having a nice night. It's good to see him play well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Apr 21, 2011 -> 11:04 PM) Whatever with this discussion. What happens to Dwight Howard is the Magic happen to lose in the first round?He signs with the Bulls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 QUOTE (almagest @ Apr 22, 2011 -> 12:34 AM) He signs with the Bulls? lol. that would take some kind of miracle involving the use of chloroform in a sign-and-trade and I'm not even sure it can actually be done but I'd jizz myself. Not like Joakim Noah is chopped liver but the Bulls would be a juggernaut... fun to think about, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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