2010-2011 NBA Thread

[kjshoe04]

That hit was "bad" but the Deng hit was embarrassing. He should be fined for that one. That Rose hit I somewhat come to expect.

I agree, the Deng hit was the only one that really seemed completely out of line. The others were just hard fouls. It is the playoffs after all.

[Quin]

Great zombie Jesus what is going on?

 

All J4L was arguing was that 1) Rose isn't otherworldly efficient and 2) He'd take Paul

 

I'm not gonna argue with #1 because Rose isn't efficient. That's a byproduct of him having to take a lot more shots because the team doesn't having a Shooting Guard who can, well, shoot. However, it's the same "Kobe inefficiency" in that the ones he does make, you're gonna remember and he steps it up in the clutch, where I'm sure Rose's numbers are not only efficient, but probably astronomical and those buzzer-beater prayers that he throws up at the end of quarters don't help. Also, before I forget, he was more efficient before he took contact to get to the line, so drawing FT's is hurting him.

 

As for number 2, I've made it clear I wouldn't take Paul over Rose, but that's because of Rose's ability to put up crazy numbers and not be inefficient, while being 22, and the fact that when down by 10 with 3:30 left I don't bat an eye because Derrick Rose is gonna take over. And because he's workaholic who will probably improve efficiency next year.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Quinarvy

[Jordan4life_2007]

Great zombie Jesus what is going on?

 

All J4L was arguing was that 1) Rose isn't otherworldly efficient and 2) He'd take Paul

 

I'm not gonna argue with #1 because Rose isn't efficient. That's a byproduct of him having to take a lot more shots because the team doesn't having a Shooting Guard who can, well, shoot. However, it's the same "Kobe inefficiency" in that the ones he does make, you're gonna remember and he steps it up in the clutch, where I'm sure Rose's numbers are not only efficient, but probably astronomical and those buzzer-beater prayers that he throws up at the end of quarters don't help. Also, before I forget, he was more efficient before he took contact to get to the line, so drawing FT's is hurting him.

 

As for number 2, I've made it clear I wouldn't take Paul over Rose, but that's because of Rose's ability to put up crazy numbers and not be inefficient, while being 22, and the fact that when down by 10 with 3:30 left I don't bat an eye because Derrick Rose is gonna take over. And because he's workaholic who will probably improve efficiency next year.

 

You, sir, are awesome.

[Steve9347]

I think what I'm saying is J4L needs his head examined to prefer CP3 to Rose after his clear overreaction to one playoff game.

 

I'm so offended by the idiocy of his stance that I question his utter existence.

[nitetrain8601]

Yes. But I don't read selectively.

 

Apparently you do. This discussion has ben about who's the best PG in the league. Myself, J4L and few others have proven through stats and advanced stats that Chris Paul is the better player. The rest of Soxtalk, through Rose colored glasses are using the weakass excuse "I'll trust my eyes". You go trust those eyes. I'm pretty sure you guys haven't watched a Hornets game in years.

 

And I better not hear another "Rose shoots because he has to." That's what you guys wanted when you said "Get rid of Gordon, Rose needs to be able to shoot at all times. Gordon is a chucker." Like most of you guys know what a chucker is.

Edited April 22, 2011 by nitetrain8601

[StrangeSox]

Apparently you do. This discussion has ben about who's the best PG in the league. Myself, J4L and few others have proven through stats and advanced stats that Chris Paul is the better player. The rest of Soxtalk, through Rose colored glasses are using the weakass excuse "I'll trust my eyes". You go trust those eyes. I'm pretty sure you guys haven't watched a Hornets game in years.

 

And I better not hear another "Rose shoots because he has to." That's what you guys wanted when you said "Get rid of Gordon, Rose needs to be able to shoot at all times. Gordon is a chucker." Like most of you guys know what a chucker is.

 

 

lol

[bmags]

And I better not hear another "Rose shoots because he has to." That's what you guys wanted when you said "Get rid of Gordon, Rose needs to be able to shoot at all times. Gordon is a chucker." Like most of you guys know what a chucker is.

 

Pretty sure we didn't want to pay gordon the absurd cash he got to be a sixth man, when he thought he should be a starter.

 

I'm not arguing that Paul isn't better on f***ing PER, but you would be fired on the spot if you were a GM and traded rose straight up for Paul, an older player with a knee injury under his belt that took him an incredibly long time to recover from. End of story.

[nitetrain8601]

Pretty sure we didn't want to pay gordon the absurd cash he got to be a sixth man, when he thought he should be a starter.

 

I'm not arguing that Paul isn't better on f***ing PER, but you would be fired on the spot if you were a GM and traded rose straight up for Paul, an older player with a knee injury under his belt that took him an incredibly long time to recover from. End of story.

 

I never said I wouldn't trade Rose for Paul straightup. In fact, I even stated I wouldn't when the discussion first began unless both are the same age. The argument is who is the better player today. And it's Paul folks.

[Soxbadger]

I have no idea what your discussion was about, I merely stated that Nash doesnt score as many points (fact).

 

The argument then was that Wade and Lebron score more and are more efficient (irrelevant).

 

So im not sure how youve proven anything, except for rely on a statistic to argue something that is subjective.

 

 

[kjshoe04]

I never said I wouldn't trade Rose for Paul straightup. In fact, I even stated I wouldn't when the discussion first began unless both are the same age. The argument is who is the better player today. And it's Paul folks.

You can continue to say this like it is a fact but I don't agree and I'd say most people don't agree. Even when they went head to head this season Rose clearly stood out.

[bmags]

why i'll take rose

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

 

That and Rose's iso success and driving ability are special to his position. And frankly are the reason why i think he's one of those rare pg's that will lead his team to the championship as the main scoring threat.

[kjshoe04]

why i'll take rose

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

 

That and Rose's iso success and driving ability are special to his position. And frankly are the reason why i think he's one of those rare pg's that will lead his team to the championship as the main scoring threat.

Mo Williams>Chris Paul.

[bmags]

Mo Williams>Chris Paul.

 

hey, it's not the be-all end-all. But under three minutes rose is even crazier. But i've watched enough basketball in my life to know that the last 5 min in basketball are different, and especially surviving the oughts with the bulls team we had, to have someone who is going to take that shot, take the drive and get fouled and MAKE it, is really important.

 

But getting rose to shoot was an evolution. Who knows what kind of player he'll end up as.

[southsider2k5]

Apparently you do. This discussion has ben about who's the best PG in the league. Myself, J4L and few others have proven through stats and advanced stats that Chris Paul is the better player. The rest of Soxtalk, through Rose colored glasses are using the weakass excuse "I'll trust my eyes". You go trust those eyes. I'm pretty sure you guys haven't watched a Hornets game in years.

 

And I better not hear another "Rose shoots because he has to." That's what you guys wanted when you said "Get rid of Gordon, Rose needs to be able to shoot at all times. Gordon is a chucker." Like most of you guys know what a chucker is.

 

Stats and advanced stats in the NBA prove nothing. Your very first assumption is wrong.

 

Not to mention your comparison between Gordon and Rose is awful because Ben isn't the finisher at the rim that Rose is. Gordon didn't need the floor spaced. Gordon is a shooter. Rose is a driver.

[Quin]

Apparently you do. This discussion has ben about who's the best PG in the league. Myself, J4L and few others have proven through stats and advanced stats that Chris Paul is the better player. The rest of Soxtalk, through Rose colored glasses are using the weakass excuse "I'll trust my eyes". You go trust those eyes. I'm pretty sure you guys haven't watched a Hornets game in years.

 

And I better not hear another "Rose shoots because he has to." That's what you guys wanted when you said "Get rid of Gordon, Rose needs to be able to shoot at all times. Gordon is a chucker." Like most of you guys know what a chucker is.

 

A few points.

 

1) You literally proved nothing, because there is nothing to prove other than your opinion. Let me use the Bill Simmons argument here for why guys like Rose and Nash are MVPs. Their teams are built like a finely tuned car that only one person can drive, in this case Rose. Put Paul on the Bulls and they aren't winning 62. Put Rose on the Hornets and they probably win 45 still because Rose would have been able to pick up some missing scoring, but not manage the game like Paul.

 

2) Rose does shoot because he has to. Who the f*** is going to otherwise? Bogans? Korver and Deng can shoot, but Korver obviously doesn't start and while Deng's improved he isn't automatic. Rose needs to give a scoring punch. But trust me, I'd rather have BG back if I could.

 

lol

 

While I agree with you, that didn't really contribute now, did it?

 

Pretty sure we didn't want to pay gordon the absurd cash he got to be a sixth man, when he thought he should be a starter.

 

I'm not arguing that Paul isn't better on f***ing PER, but you would be fired on the spot if you were a GM and traded rose straight up for Paul, an older player with a knee injury under his belt that took him an incredibly long time to recover from. End of story.

 

He should have been a starter, but that ship has sailed. But I agree with the second part.

 

 

You can continue to say this like it is a fact but I don't agree and I'd say most people don't agree. Even when they went head to head this season Rose clearly stood out.

 

Ding-ding-ding!

 

hey, it's not the be-all end-all. But under three minutes rose is even crazier. But i've watched enough basketball in my life to know that the last 5 min in basketball are different, and especially surviving the oughts with the bulls team we had, to have someone who is going to take that shot, take the drive and get fouled and MAKE it, is really important.

 

But getting rose to shoot was an evolution. Who knows what kind of player he'll end up as.

 

Based on his work ethic, really good and he'll be the better shooter.

 

While I disagree with J4L on the Paul v. Rose, I'll say this much this thread has dissolved into this:

 

When it could have been more like this article:

 

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/21317..._At_Point_Guard

 

[StrangeSox]

While I agree with you, that didn't really contribute now, did it?

 

What else needs to be said to a claim that someone "proved" Paul is better than Rose because of "advanced statistics?"

[Steve9347]

. Myself, J4L and few others have proven through stats and advanced stats that Chris Paul is the better player.

This isn't baseball, chief.

[Quin]

What else needs to be said to a claim that someone "proved" Paul is better than Rose because of "advanced statistics?"

 

Touche.

[lostfan]

Totally ignoring the Rose-Paul bulls*** again so I can post an observation:

 

Boozer appears to suck badly, especially at finishing around the rim, because he was MUCH more efficient on the pick and roll in Utah with D-Will feeding him. So here, he's always fumbling the ball, or it seems like he's going up weak and getting punked but that's not really on him, it's on Rose. Rose is always about a second late getting him the ball, he'll see Boozer in the post and feed him the ball, but by the time it's down there Boozer's lost his advantage. In Utah the plays were by design, but in Chicago it looks like a reaction from Rose as a kind of fallback when he can't penetrate. Same for Noah, actually, but not as pronounced since Noah's not really a go-to option. This isn't really because it's something Rose can't do, it's more because Boozer missed so much time to start the year, and they didn't play together in camp because of Boozer's broken wrist. It's something they'll have to work on in the offseason regardless of how far they make it in the playoffs.

[lostfan]

Wait, so you mean he's not the perfect player? That he is lacking in certain areas? Well good god damn. And I'm not being condescending towards you, Q. You and lostfan off the top of my head are pretty sound when it comes to Rose. It's a shame. I feel like a Rose hater when I'm not.

I didn't expect this shout-out after I got pissed off last night. lol.

[Felix]

This Rose/Paul debate has gotten nowhere. Can people just shut the f*** up about it and stop baiting the others that they disagree with? It's completely pointless. None of the Rose crowd is going to be convinced by statistical arguments, and none of the Paul crowd gives a s*** how little the Rose crowd cares for stats. We get it, you hate them and think they mean nothing. We disagree, big f***ing deal.

[Steve9347]

Totally ignoring the Rose-Paul bulls*** again so I can post an observation:

 

Boozer appears to suck badly, especially at finishing around the rim, because he was MUCH more efficient on the pick and roll in Utah with D-Will feeding him. So here, he's always fumbling the ball, or it seems like he's going up weak and getting punked but that's not really on him, it's on Rose. Rose is always about a second late getting him the ball, he'll see Boozer in the post and feed him the ball, but by the time it's down there Boozer's lost his advantage. In Utah the plays were by design, but in Chicago it looks like a reaction from Rose as a kind of fallback when he can't penetrate. Same for Noah, actually, but not as pronounced since Noah's not really a go-to option. This isn't really because it's something Rose can't do, it's more because Boozer missed so much time to start the year, and they didn't play together in camp because of Boozer's broken wrist. It's something they'll have to work on in the offseason regardless of how far they make it in the playoffs.

I think there might be something off with Boozer... earlier in the season (and especially during Noah's injury) he was scoring at a fine pace. He seems almost useless lately.

[GoodAsGould]

I think there might be something off with Boozer... earlier in the season (and especially during Noah's injury) he was scoring at a fine pace. He seems almost useless lately.

 

Doesnt he have a history of being mediocre for Utah in the playoffs too? I could be making that up but thought it was always a knock against him.

[lostfan]

I think there might be something off with Boozer... earlier in the season (and especially during Noah's injury) he was scoring at a fine pace. He seems almost useless lately.

It's different in the playoffs when you're facing elite front lines though. Boozer is only, what, 6'7"? He has decent post moves but it's not like he's much of a ballhandler or anything that'd mitigate the height disadvantage when he gets trapped under a 7 footer.

[southsider2k5]

This Rose/Paul debate has gotten nowhere. Can people just shut the f*** up about it and stop baiting the others that they disagree with? It's completely pointless. None of the Rose crowd is going to be convinced by statistical arguments, and none of the Paul crowd gives a s*** how little the Rose crowd cares for stats. We get it, you hate them and think they mean nothing. We disagree, big f***ing deal.

 

Take your own advice.