2010-2011 NBA Thread

[southsider2k5]

The Rockets only won their titles when Jordan was "retired".

[Balta1701]

During the Jordan dominant years 2 teams won titles, Bulls and Rockets.

Do I need to point out the technicality?

[bmags]

So, if 1/2 the season next year is missing, that's a big boost to the Heat.

 

Ha, very true. I didn't think about that.

[jenksycat]

Can you imagine titles for 8 straight years? Thinking about that still gives me goosebumps

[ZoomSlowik]

Are you serious? There is a lot of rings on Fisher, Horry, George and Shaw(and not only from the lakers), and every single one of those guys played big minutes for the Lakers. Phil counted on every single one of those guys. It is unanimous in this thread that the Heats bench is just a bunch of guys

 

Just because they have a bunch of rings doesn't mean they're automatically good players.

 

Fisher has career averages of 8.8/2.1/3.1 while shooting 40% from the field and 37.5% from the arc. Horry averaged 7 PPG for his career and shot 42.5% from the floor (34% from the arc). Shaw had career averages of 7/3.4/4.2 with a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% barely over 30. George shot below 40% from the field for his career and averaged 5.6 PPG in his career.

 

Those guys aren't exactly world beaters. They're all average to below average players that happened to land on the right team with the right guys carrying the load. Yes, they hit some big shots (especially Horry and Fisher), but getting the opportunity to take those huge shots is also a major part of that equation. If those guys spend most of their career on the Clippers instead of the Lakers, no one has any clue who they are.

 

Bosh is better than any #3 scorer that the Lakers had, and the biggest difference between Horry and Fisher and guys like Bibby, Jones, Chalmers and Miller is that they haven't had dozens of opportunities in their career to make an impact on a playoff game. Maybe they hit some key shots, maybe they don't. Obviously you need that to win titles. But a couple of made jumpers at the right times doesn't suddenly turn those guys into stars.

Edited May 11, 2011 by ZoomSlowik

[Soxbadger]

You cant just assume the Bulls would have won the 2 years Jordan was gone.

 

Im happy with what we got.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I am not confident that Wade will be able to last consecutive seasons from hereon without a really serious injury.

 

I agree with the premise here. 'Bron is basically injury proof. Bosh hasn't had a legitimate injury to this point in his career that I can remember. Wade has obviously had a ton of injury issues.

[bmags]

Bosh is better than any #3 scorer that the Lakers had, and the biggest difference between Horry and Fisher and guys like Bibby, Jones, Chalmers and Miller is that they haven't had dozens of opportunities in their career to make an impact on a playoff game. Maybe they hit some key shots, maybe they don't. Obviously you need that to win titles. But a couple of made jumpers at the right times doesn't suddenly turn those guys into stars.

 

They also aren't idiots like chalmers and taking shots away from the playmakers. They were good role players that played very hard on D. But one thing, I like the equation of a dominant center+shooting guard/sf over dominant SG/SF. Of course, Lebron could learn to play with his back to the basket at some point.

[bmags]

I agree with the premise here. 'Bron is basically injury proof. Bosh hasn't had a legitimate injury to this point in his career that I can remember. Wade has obviously had a ton of injury issues.

 

I just don't consider Bosh anything major at this point. He's good on a team where nobody can make their own shot, but on a team with a lebron and wade, having a PF who just wants to take jumpshots is frivelous. A team of Lebron + Bosh is one I don't think would win a title. I mean, I'd definitely consider OKC from hereon to be superior to that.

[Chisoxfn]

Just because they have a bunch of rings doesn't mean they're automatically good players.

 

Fisher has career averages of 8.8/2.1/3.1 while shooting 40% from the field and 37.5% from the arc. Horry averaged 7 PPG for his career and shot 42.5% from the floor (34% from the arc). Shaw had career averages of 7/3.4/4.2 with a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% barely over 30. George shot below 40% from the field for his career and averaged 5.6 PPG in his career.

 

Those guys aren't exactly world beaters. They're all average to below average players that happened to land on the right team with the right guys carrying the load. Yes, they hit some big shots (especially Horry and Fisher), but getting the opportunity to take those huge shots is also a major part of that equation. If those guys spend most of their career on the Clippers instead of the Lakers, no one has any clue who they are.

 

Bosh is better than any #3 scorer that the Lakers had, and the biggest difference between Horry and Fisher and guys like Bibby, Jones, Chalmers and Miller is that they haven't had dozens of opportunities in their career to make an impact on a playoff game. Maybe they hit some key shots, maybe they don't. Obviously you need that to win titles. But a couple of made jumpers at the right times doesn't suddenly turn those guys into stars.

You are selling Horry way short.

[Rowand44]

You cant just assume the Bulls would have won the 2 years Jordan was gone.

 

Im happy with what we got.

With those teams you could have.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Speaking of Chalmers, watching him during OT on Monday night was pretty comical. Every time the Heat were on offense, he would head to one of the corners and just stand around, trying not to get in anyone's way. Then once, Wade got trapped, so he had to pass it to Chalmers. Super Mario immediately drove to the hoop and turned the ball over.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Going to be in the way was somewhat unique to the Bulls and Jordan years. When I hear that referred to, I think of HOF players like Karl Malone, etc who couldnt win a championship because of the Bulls. Im not sure if the Heat are going to be so good that they basically shut out a generation of superstars from winning a title.

 

During the Jordan dominant years 2 teams won titles, Bulls and Rockets.

 

From 1983- 1998 only 5 teams won Championships, Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets.

 

I just dont see the Heat on the same level as the teams I listed above.

 

Then you're selling the Heat short, IMO. LeBron is the best player in basketball. Wade is arguably the second best. Chris Bosh is a top 3 player at his position. They're all young and in their primes. There's no reason to think they won't be a major force for years to come. Look at this year. They 'only' won 58 games and yet they were looked at as big underachievers. Yet when you take away the 9-8 start and that 5-game losing streak in March, they've been utterly dominant. They're doing this simply on talent. You can tell they're much more comfortable playing together than they were 5 months ago. And the more time that goes by, the better the chemistry will be. And you have to figure they'll be able to strengthen their supporting cast going forward. I thought they did a pretty good job this year. No way to know Mike Miller was going to fall off a cliff and that Haslem would miss 60 games.

[Kyyle23]

Just because they have a bunch of rings doesn't mean they're automatically good players.

 

Fisher has career averages of 8.8/2.1/3.1 while shooting 40% from the field and 37.5% from the arc. Horry averaged 7 PPG for his career and shot 42.5% from the floor (34% from the arc). Shaw had career averages of 7/3.4/4.2 with a FG% of 40 and a 3PT% barely over 30. George shot below 40% from the field for his career and averaged 5.6 PPG in his career.

 

Those guys aren't exactly world beaters. They're all average to below average players that happened to land on the right team with the right guys carrying the load. Yes, they hit some big shots (especially Horry and Fisher), but getting the opportunity to take those huge shots is also a major part of that equation. If those guys spend most of their career on the Clippers instead of the Lakers, no one has any clue who they are.

 

Bosh is better than any #3 scorer that the Lakers had, and the biggest difference between Horry and Fisher and guys like Bibby, Jones, Chalmers and Miller is that they haven't had dozens of opportunities in their career to make an impact on a playoff game. Maybe they hit some key shots, maybe they don't. Obviously you need that to win titles. But a couple of made jumpers at the right times doesn't suddenly turn those guys into stars.

 

I never said they were stars, but I think that they were way ahead of the current Miami bench. And there was a reason that Horry and Fisher stayed on teams like the Lakers and Spurs instead of the Clippers, those teams knew that they were very good role/bench players

[bmags]

Then you're selling the Heat short, IMO. LeBron is the best player in basketball. Wade is arguably the second best. Chris Bosh is a top 3 player at his position. They're all young and in their primes. There's no reason to think they won't be a major force for years to come. Look at this year. They 'only' won 58 games and yet they were looked at as big underachievers. Yet when you take away the 9-8 start and that 5-game losing streak in March, they've been utterly dominant. They're doing this simply on talent. You can tell they're much more comfortable playing together than they were 5 months ago. And the more time that goes by, the better the chemistry will be. And you have to figure they'll be able to strengthen their supporting cast going forward. I thought they did a pretty good job this year. No way to know Mike Miller was going to fall off a cliff and that Haslem would miss 60 games.

 

Dirk is 2nd best right now.

[Rowand44]

Then you're selling the Heat short, IMO. LeBron is the best player in basketball. Wade is arguably the second best. Chris Bosh is a top 3 player at his position. They're all young and in their primes. There's no reason to think they won't be a major force for years to come. Look at this year. They 'only' won 58 games and yet they were looked at as big underachievers. Yet when you take away the 9-8 start and that 5-game losing streak in March, they've been utterly dominant. They're doing this simply on talent. You can tell they're much more comfortable playing together than they were 5 months ago. And the more time that goes by, the better the chemistry will be. And you have to figure they'll be able to strengthen their supporting cast going forward. I thought they did a pretty good job this year. No way to know Mike Miller was going to fall off a cliff and that Haslem would miss 60 games.

Heh.

[BigSqwert]

Heh.

Translated: If you take away all of their losses, they're a great team!

[maggsmaggs]

Heh.

Yeah, by that same logic, this year's Bulls team would have won 70. Take away our 9-8 start and injuries to Noah/Boozer.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I just don't consider Bosh anything major at this point. He's good on a team where nobody can make their own shot, but on a team with a lebron and wade, having a PF who just wants to take jumpshots is frivelous. A team of Lebron + Bosh is one I don't think would win a title. I mean, I'd definitely consider OKC from hereon to be superior to that.

 

That's always been Bosh's game. He's a face-up/slasher that can shoot. Kinda like Dirk without the 3-point range. I'll fully concede that Bosh seems to be a dumbass. But he's a great player. I knew before the season that he was going to have the most difficult adjustment out of the three. And he's had a fine year.

[bmags]

That's always been Bosh's game. He's a face-up/slasher that can shoot. Kinda like Dirk without the 3-point range. I'll fully concede that Bosh seems to be a dumbass. But he's a great player. I knew before the season that he was going to have the most difficult adjustment out of the three. And he's had a fine year.

 

right, but i don't think he's a great player for the heat, or paired up with lebron.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Heh.

 

 

Translated: If you take away all of their losses, they're a great team!

 

 

Yeah, by that same logic, this year's Bulls team would have won 70. Take away our 9-8 start and injuries to Noah/Boozer.

 

Whatever. You guys can get smart and defensive or whatever. You know what I meant. The expectations for the Heat were astronomical. The Bulls could've won 50 games and nobody would've said a thing. I wasn't that shocked by the Heat's start. You just don't throw a bunch of stars together and say play ball. Once they started to get a feel for one another, they started to look much better.

[Soxbadger]

Really?

 

Im selling a Heat team short who has 0 titles by not putting then on the same level as 5 teams who won multiple titles.

 

If in 10 years the Heat has 2-3 titles, then Ill put them up there.

[maggsmaggs]

Whatever. You guys can get smart and defensive or whatever. You know what I meant. The expectations for the Heat were astronomical. The Bulls could've won 50 games and nobody would've said a thing. I wasn't that shocked by the Heat's start. You just don't throw a bunch of stars together and say play ball. Once they started to get a feel for one another, they started to look much better.

I know what you mean, and I agree. But the the Bulls still have room to improve, too. A lot actually. Better 2-guard, full health and they will be better.

 

I still think the Heat will beat the Bulls in the East Finals.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Really?

 

Im selling a Heat team short who has 0 titles by not putting then on the same level as 5 teams who won multiple titles.

 

If in 10 years the Heat has 2-3 titles, then Ill put them up there.

 

I think you're selling their potential short, yes. Let's put it this way: if the Bulls had won the 'Bron/Bosh lottery last summer what would you think of their potential?

[BigSqwert]

I'd imagine the Heat may even be favorites (In Vegas) in the next round even without home court advantage.

Edited May 11, 2011 by BigSqwert