2010-2011 NBA Thread

[Soxbadger]

Its just ridiculous to say that the Heat are on the same level as teams who won multiple championships.

 

It would have been like saying that the Magic with Shaq and Penny were on the same level as the teams I mentioned.

 

Shaq is going to be a monster, Penny is unbelievable, the Magic will never lose.

 

How many titles did they win?

 

You cant put the Heat in the same sentence as teams who won multiple titles, until the Heat win multiple titles.

 

(edit)

 

They have the potential to win multiple titles, but potential doesnt always translate to winning anything.

 

Right now the Heat have done nothing to prove that they are on that level.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Soxbadger

[Rowand44]

Whatever. You guys can get smart and defensive or whatever. You know what I meant. The expectations for the Heat were astronomical. The Bulls could've won 50 games and nobody would've said a thing. I wasn't that shocked by the Heat's start. You just don't throw a bunch of stars together and say play ball. Once they started to get a feel for one another, they started to look much better.

I have no reason to be defensive, the Heat are one of if not the best team in basketball this year but you and a bunch of other people have made them out to be this unstoppable force, which they're clearly not.

 

And the bolded just made me laugh as you were the one making the Knicks out to be a "legit title contender" this season, 3 games after they traded for Melo.

[Rowand44]

I'd imagine the Heat may even be favorites (In Vegas) in the next round even without home court advantage.

That's a lock.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I have no reason to be defensive, the Heat are one of if not the best team in basketball this year but you and a bunch of other people have made them out to be this unstoppable force, which they're clearly not.

 

And the bolded just made me laugh as you were the one making the Knicks out to be a "legit title contender" this season, 3 games after they traded for Melo.

 

lol. That was knee-jerk. I never thought the Knicks were going to win a title. No team with Amare as the focal point will win anything.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Its just ridiculous to say that the Heat are on the same level as teams who won multiple championships.

 

It would have been like saying that the Magic with Shaq and Penny were on the same level as the teams I mentioned.

 

Shaq is going to be a monster, Penny is unbelievable, the Magic will never lose.

 

How many titles did they win?

 

You cant put the Heat in the same sentence as teams who won multiple titles, until the Heat win multiple titles.

 

(edit)

 

They have the potential to win multiple titles, but potential doesnt always translate to winning anything.

 

Right now the Heat have done nothing to prove that they are on that level.

 

Why do you keep insisting on saying I'm comparing the Heat with these teams? All I said is they have the star power to be dominant for the next 3-5 years. Of course it's not a guarantee. Of course they have to prove it. Never said otherwise.

 

[SoxFan1]

The Blazers and Kings had bench mobs in the early 2000s. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe. The end. Again, not saying the Bulls can't win. But I don't see either bench playing a huge role in the upcoming series.

What a horrible point. The Kings got screwed by Donaghy and the NBA refs for years. They were better than the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.

[Soxbadger]

Because you in fact did compare the Heat to those teams. You said that the Heat were going to be like the Bulls, I said that was a stretch as I did not think the Heat would win 6 titles. I then showed in the era where Jordan played basically only 5 teams won Championships and that the Heat (as of today) were not on the same level.

 

You then went on to say that I was selling the Heat team short, by not putting them on the same level as those teams.

 

I keep insisting on it, because that was the implication of your post.

 

I dont see what the point in arguing about what the Heat could be in 3-5 years. All Ive said is that in 3-5 years, I would be able to say whether they are on the same level as those teams.

 

But unlike you, Im not just going to start making championship banners for the Heat.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Because you in fact did compare the Heat to those teams. You said that the Heat were going to be like the Bulls, I said that was a stretch as I did not think the Heat would win 6 titles. I then showed in the era where Jordan played basically only 5 teams won Championships and that the Heat (as of today) were not on the same level.

 

You then went on to say that I was selling the Heat team short, by not putting them on the same level as those teams.

 

I keep insisting on it, because that was the implication of your post.

 

I dont see what the point in arguing about what the Heat could be in 3-5 years. All Ive said is that in 3-5 years, I would be able to say whether they are on the same level as those teams.

 

But unlike you, Im not just going to start making championship banners for the Heat.

 

I said they were "going to be in the way" of teams with title aspirations like the Bulls were, yes. As in be the team most likely you have to go through to win a title. Much like the Bulls were. I don't think that's unreasonable. I didn't say they were going to go on a 6 title in 8 year run. But looking at the rest of the conference, there's no team set up better going forward. With us a close second. The Celtics are done. The Knicks are thinner than the heat with inferior stars. Who knows what's going to happen with Howard and the Magic. Sixers? Blah. Who else? Get it yet?

[BigSqwert]

^ This is a reasonable argument.

[ZoomSlowik]

I never said they were stars, but I think that they were way ahead of the current Miami bench. And there was a reason that Horry and Fisher stayed on teams like the Lakers and Spurs instead of the Clippers, those teams knew that they were very good role/bench players

 

I don't really get how you can say they're way ahead of them unless you're factoring post-season shots that the Heat players haven't really had the chance at yet. They have basically the same level of production as the current Heat guys. In fact, their shooting percentages are even lower than most of the Heat. Guys like Bibby and Jones both hit over 40% of their 3's this year, that could prove pretty useful (though Bibby has shot horribly in the playoffs. It's not like the Lakers had someone like Steve Kerr that was insanely good from deep or an elite post defender like Rodman, they're all fairly middling.

 

As for the second part, better teams do target role players, but everyone's circumstances are different and the Lakers and Celtics can't sign everyone. How much better would a marginal player like Randy Foye look if he were the starting PG for the Lakers instead of bouncing around with the T-Wolves, Wizards and Clippers? On paper he's not that different than Fisher, he just got drafted by a bad team and the Lakers signed Steve Blake instead of him.

 

Plus a number of guys leave because the money is better on a team that wants to give them a better role. Remember how hot Trevor Ariza was after the 2009 playoffs? Now he's making more money while sucking in New Orleans. Stephen Jackson did the same thing a long time ago.

 

That's the nature of bench players/role players; they're all relatively interchangeable. It's far easier to find someone like Fisher or Horry to round out your lineup than it is to get someone like Andre Iguodala or Gerald Wallace as the kind of glue guy that they should be and that you'd want on your roster.

 

I'm getting way off point here. The bottom line is that you won't really know how effective they are until they have to take a huge shot when the Heat really need it. So far that hasn't happened.

[Soxbadger]

I just think its pretty hard to predict next year, let alone 3-5 years from now. If the Heat are in the finals the next 2 years, Id start to agree, but as of now, they havent even made 1 NBA final. Its just way to speculative for me.

[Steve9347]

I think the lesson we've learned here is, though they can be annoying from time-to-time, lawyers sure do bring a lot of fun to message boards.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I just think its pretty hard to predict next year, let alone 3-5 years from now. If the Heat are in the finals the next 2 years, Id start to agree, but as of now, they havent even made 1 NBA final. Its just way to speculative for me.

 

Of course it's hard. Nothing is a guarantee in sports. But it'd be boring if you never looked into the future a tad. I can't guarantee you Rose won't be better next year. But isn't it fun to think about the possibility of him being even better? I hope I'm totally wrong about the Heat. You think I want to see LeBron win 5 rings? lol. But as I get older, I can leave my emotions out of being a sports fan. 5 years ago I'd be coming up with 575765765 reasons on why the Heat suck and they're not going to do anything or they're overrated or whatever. But the reality is what it is. The Heat are going to be an obstacle, save injury, for a while. But this convo is toast. Let's talk about game 6 or something.

[Steve9347]

I just think its pretty hard to predict next year, let alone 3-5 years from now. If the Heat are in the finals the next 2 years, Id start to agree, but as of now, they havent even made 1 NBA final. Its just way to speculative for me.

DUDE 2003

[Soxbadger]

It's of course fun to look into the future, Im just tired of people either overhyping the Heat or being overly negative about the Heat.

 

It just seems that there is little middle ground when it comes to them. I think they are going to be a solid team and they definitely may win championship(s), I just also think they have some issues and Im not entirely sold on the team dynamic.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think the lesson we've learned here is, though they can be annoying from time-to-time, lawyers sure do bring a lot of fun to message boards.

 

[kjshoe04]

That's always been Bosh's game. He's a face-up/slasher that can shoot. Kinda like Dirk without the 3-point range. I'll fully concede that Bosh seems to be a dumbass. But he's a great player. I knew before the season that he was going to have the most difficult adjustment out of the three. And he's had a fine year.

LOL no.

[Jordan4life_2007]

LOL no.

 

What? Dirk is not primarily a perimeter-oriented player? That's all I was implying. Not that Bosh was on the level of Dirk. Dirk might be one of the top 3 players in the game right now. But the days of the traditional low-post PFs ala Barkley or Duncan are pretty much over. Well, outside of Zack Randolph, I guess.

[Brian]

Just saying, it was kind of sad seeing Shaq at the end of the Boston bench at the end of game 4, looking helpless. One of the most dominant players I have ever seen is done. I hope he retires. I hated Orlando and the Lakers but was a secret fan of his. Seems super cool off the court and hope he goes out on his terms.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just saying, it was kind of sad seeing Shaq at the end of the Boston bench at the end of game 4, looking helpless. One of the most dominant players I have ever seen is done. I hope he retires. I hated Orlando and the Lakers but was a secret fan of his. Seems super cool off the court and hope he goes out on his terms.

 

Shaq is a classic case of a guy that simply refuses to acknowledge when it's time to let go. He should've retired after last season. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he felt he still had somethin' left and tried to hook up with a team with championship aspirations. You're right, though. He looked horrible when he was out there. You could've put wite out there and not have lost anything.

[Steve9347]

Just saying, it was kind of sad seeing Shaq at the end of the Boston bench at the end of game 4, looking helpless. One of the most dominant players I have ever seen is done. I hope he retires. I hated Orlando and the Lakers but was a secret fan of his. Seems super cool off the court and hope he goes out on his terms.

I hated the Magic, Lakers, and Heat, but have always loved Big Diesel. He's fun.

 

And he told Kobe to tell him how his ass tastes, which is pretty cool.

[ZoomSlowik]

What? Dirk is not primarily a perimeter-oriented player? That's all I was implying. Not that Bosh was on the level of Dirk. Dirk might be one of the top 3 players in the game right now. But the days of the traditional low-post PFs ala Barkley or Duncan are pretty much over. Well, outside of Zack Randolph, I guess.

 

The centers too. I go on rants fairly regularly how Dwight is the only "real" center in the league. The Heat would have been screwed in the mid-90's with guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, Robinson, Ewing, ect. dropping 30-15 on them every game. But this year, they might be able to win a title without facing a post scorer better than Carlos Boozer (obviously that assumes OKC or Dallas is in the finals).

Edited May 11, 2011 by ZoomSlowik

[SleepyWhiteSox]

D. J. Mbenga is kinda like Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon in his prime...I am clearly referring to them both being centers born in Africa with the ability to rebound and block shots.

[kjshoe04]

What? Dirk is not primarily a perimeter-oriented player? That's all I was implying. Not that Bosh was on the level of Dirk. Dirk might be one of the top 3 players in the game right now. But the days of the traditional low-post PFs ala Barkley or Duncan are pretty much over. Well, outside of Zack Randolph, I guess.

I guess so, I still kind of think of Dirk as a post player except the post is just extended for him. Bosh has none of the moves near the hoop or away from the hoop that Dirk does. I expect Noah to take him completely out of the next series if the Bulls play the Heat.

[Steve9347]

Comparing Bosh and Dirk is just silly. There are way better comparisons, so no real reason to compare those two.