Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 16, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) Better halftime adjustments by Thibs and his staff? I think there's more to it than that. The Heat started getting out to early leads last night because they were able to trap the Bulls and force some turnovers early. But you can't play a high-energy trap defense the whole game unless your roster goes 10 deep of guys who can play that D, otherwise even the best players get exhausted. The Heat thrive on turnovers because that gets James and Wade into the open court where no one can stop them. If they don't generate those turnovers, then they have to be penetrating and getting to the foul line, but that's a harder game to win because Wade and james will take a pounding trying to do so against a good team. The Heat can only force turnovers so long if you're not making mistakes, but then the lack of depth starts to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Im not sure it was the adjustments as much as the Heat just playing into the Bulls hands. The Heat small line up was what turned the series in Boston, the problem last night was that the Heat small line up was devastated by the Bulls. James Jones at the 4 with Taj out there was a complete mismatch. As soon as Thibs realized that Boozer/Noah couldnt be out there together, the Bulls took over. The Heat were just not ready for the interchangeable defense that Taj/Deng/Brewer and somewhat Bogans were able to play. Those 3 players were able to switch on Wade/Lebron/ etc and made the Heat heavily rely on iso. Even worse for the Heat it often pulled Lebron away from the hoop so that the Bulls front 2 of Noah/Taj were going up against Jones/Bosh etc. That is just a really unfavorable match up for the Heat on the boards. To make matters worse on Defense the small line up further fails the Heat because you have Bosh on Noah, which means Lebron/Jones are responsible for Taj/Deng. Its still a long way to go, but the Heat really had no answers last night. I think they will try and go big game 2 (Z, Haslem), but that will be basically admitting that the Bulls are dictating how the series is going to be played (2 big men on the floor at all times) and I think that really plays into the Bulls hands. Obviously last night the Bulls looked really good and Miami just so-so, but if there is anything to take away from this game, its that the Bulls can beat Miami. Before they stepped on the court yesterday, there was part of me that was not convinced that if both Miami and the Bulls play their best, that the Bulls would win. But after last night, I actually believe that in order for Miami to win, will have to play their best, because the Bulls best and the Miami best is going to be pretty damn close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 16, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) Im not sure it was the adjustments as much as the Heat just playing into the Bulls hands. The Heat small line up was what turned the series in Boston, the problem last night was that the Heat small line up was devastated by the Bulls. James Jones at the 4 with Taj out there was a complete mismatch. As soon as Thibs realized that Boozer/Noah couldnt be out there together, the Bulls took over. The Heat were just not ready for the interchangeable defense that Taj/Deng/Brewer and somewhat Bogans were able to play. Those 3 players were able to switch on Wade/Lebron/ etc and made the Heat heavily rely on iso. Even worse for the Heat it often pulled Lebron away from the hoop so that the Bulls front 2 of Noah/Taj were going up against Jones/Bosh etc. That is just a really unfavorable match up for the Heat on the boards. To make matters worse on Defense the small line up further fails the Heat because you have Bosh on Noah, which means Lebron/Jones are responsible for Taj/Deng. Its still a long way to go, but the Heat really had no answers last night. I think they will try and go big game 2 (Z, Haslem), but that will be basically admitting that the Bulls are dictating how the series is going to be played (2 big men on the floor at all times) and I think that really plays into the Bulls hands. Obviously last night the Bulls looked really good and Miami just so-so, but if there is anything to take away from this game, its that the Bulls can beat Miami. Before they stepped on the court yesterday, there was part of me that was not convinced that if both Miami and the Bulls play their best, that the Bulls would win. But after last night, I actually believe that in order for Miami to win, will have to play their best, because the Bulls best and the Miami best is going to be pretty damn close. You make some great points. That "small" lineup was incredibly successful in the first two rounds because the Heat's opponents didnt have big guys that could;d guard them which made for matchup issues and made the other team sub in smaller players. The Bulls kept at least Noah or Asik in plus Taj against that lineup and outrebounded the s*** out of them. I was very surprised that Z wasnt suited up for the Heat since he would be able to take Noah away from the basket to defend the spot up 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 It was really incredible that wade and james would go around the screen then get switched by, say, asik, but their lanes were clamped down on the sides, they couldn't move asik and would have to back off or shoot over a 7 footer. It was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (bmags @ May 16, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) It was really incredible that wade and james would go around the screen then get switched by, say, asik, but their lanes were clamped down on the sides, they couldn't move asik and would have to back off or shoot over a 7 footer. It was awesome. The amazing part of that was that they couldn't beat Asik, Noah, or Taj off of the dribble after the switch happened. If they really want to run that pick and roll game, they need to do with with the PG and try to get Wade/James ISO'd with Rose. He is the one guy they could beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 So rumor has it that the Bulls- Heat game is the most viewed game in cable history surpassing the 2003 All-Star game. Bulls know television ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 hopefully the nba refs don't misconstrue that as people wanting the heat in the finals. ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 I've been on vacation and I don't have the time to go through a week's worth of posts plus last night's game where I'm sure there was a flurry of posts and an obligatory argument or two... but here's my take on the game. Obviously, the small lineup vs. the Bulls was a terrible idea. The Bulls aren't Boston, and hell, Boston isn't Boston, it's a busted down shell of what it was the last few years. The Heat aren't really that great of a rebounding team to begin with (actually worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA I think) and the Bulls happen to be the best in the NBA. So going small concedes what's already a disadvantage and exacerbates it. It looked like it was going to work for about 18 minutes... Miami is fantastic, unstoppable even, in transition and they play their guys back to facilitate this (also another reason they aren't good at rebounding). BUT as was probably already mentioned, it takes a lot of energy to play this way, to force turnovers, to keep up with the lack of rebounding or finish plays that don't allow rebounds. I never really realized until last night how much iso Miami runs, they barely run any actual plays, and Thibodeau's schemes make that kind of play extremely hard. So Miami predictably started to wear down halfway through the second and the Bulls caught up once the Bulls threw the second wave of fresh bigs at them... Miami has no answer to that and this is where the depth issues really hurt them. Furthermore, Noah is as fast as almost anyone Miami has so their small guys can't exploit a speed mismatch there which is the whole point of the lineup in the first place... at one point I think he was actually running a transition play. Wade was exhausted towards the end and even LeBron can't blow past double teams as soon as he catches the ball, or when everywhere he's going is sealed off. Yeah this means Bosh gets 30 but who cares. Miami's halfcourt sets are mediocre, even with Wade and James, when someone else dictates to them how they have to play. Miami can't keep up its defensive intensity for 4 quarters... this is why they dropped the 3 games to the Bulls during the regular season, too. Where they led, they blew the lead. Where the games were even, the Bulls pulled away. This is also why Miami's record against certain kinds of opponents is so poor, and their record in close games is embarrassing. They can get away with crushing average opponents, but not teams like the Bulls. They didn't suddenly become a different team in the playoffs. This is basically the long version of everything I've said about Miami all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 LF just said in one long post what I think I've said in about 7-8 posts today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) LF just said in one long post what I think I've said in about 7-8 posts today. I just went back and read a few of your posts and if you piece them together, it's basically what I said. lol. Except for where you were saying how iso is easier with more than one guy of that caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 It was crazy watching Asik guard Lebron sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ May 17, 2011 -> 12:00 AM) It was crazy watching Asik guard Lebron sometimes. yeah, and not even playing far off of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Asik has started to get notice as a really good defensive player around the league, and I think Lebron recognized that. Not quite the same as going through JJ in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (knightni @ May 16, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) It was crazy watching Asik guard Lebron sometimes. His footwork brought a tear to my eye. I wanna see the replays just to see his footwork. Absolutely amazing for a big man. You just know they're working hard on team D when Kyle freakin' Korver is workin' his ass off on wade and doin' a good job of it. I just love how much of a team this group of guys is. EVERYONE is buying in...a true testament to not only how good of a group of guys it is but moreso how great of a coaching job Thibs is doing and a humble Rose is doing as a leader. Gotta love that. Virtually impossible to dislike them. Also, this was even more huge because of the mental fragility of the heat. I could practically hear wade's ego being crushed on that Taj facial he received. It would be difficult for the Bulls to lose the series if they win on Wednesday just based on the mental fragility of lebron, wade, spoelstra, and the rest of the heat and their ability to give up in the face of adversity. And boozer's cheerleading is All-NBA 1st team-worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Goosebumps. Seriously got shades of the MJ crew there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The Heat apologists are hilarious. "This is what the Heat need to do if they are going to win game 2 and then take the series." Well, there are certain things that I would need to do to get both Blake Lively and Meagan Good into bed - it doesn't mean that any of those things can actually happen. The one I love the most is talking about how the Heat need to rebound better. Of course they do. Now tell me- how are they going to do it? "duuuuuuhhhhh ummmmmmmmmmmm durrrrrr" f***ing Chris Broussard is the worst of them all too. He's so loud and annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 16, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) The Heat apologists are hilarious. "This is what the Heat need to do if they are going to win game 2 and then take the series." Well, there are certain things that I would need to do to get both Blake Lively and Meagan Good into bed - it doesn't mean that any of those things can actually happen. The one I love the most is talking about how the Heat need to rebound better. Of course they do. Now tell me- how are they going to do it? "duuuuuuhhhhh ummmmmmmmmmmm durrrrrr" f***ing Chris Broussard is the worst of them all too. He's so loud and annoying. The reason the Bulls out-rebounded the Heat so much in the first game is because the Heat doubled Rose at the 3 pt line, which is really really stupid. Trapping Rose out that early has no benefits. By trapping Rose with both the PG and a big man like the Heat were doing, it allows the Bulls to run a make-shift pick and roll, have the Heat over-pursue and double Rose and then have Rose pass it out to the screener. Who then has a 4 on 3 situation in the lane. This is how the Bulls were able to have some nice ball movement in the lane, getting Noah and Asik some easy dunks. This also allows the Bulls to get many second chances, something they were good at to begin with. But with this sort of setup, they are absolutely unstoppable on the offensive boards since Joel Anthony or whoever they have doubling Rose is out of position by the time the rebounding opportunity is there. So the easy fix is to stop doubling Rose up at the 3 point line. Sure, it could mean Rose gets easier shots, but it's not like he was struggling to score in game 1. If Spolestra's smart, he ditches this horrible game plan he had going and let Rose get his. The Heat can't afford to get dominated on the boards like they did in game 1. The Heat will have trouble regardless with the Bulls, this is simply a bad matchup for them. But they will win their fair share of games in this series and it should be a lot closer from now on. Edited May 17, 2011 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 This is a little off-topic, but is this upcoming draft the worst of, like, the last 20 years? There's nobody that I can see being a game-changer. A bunch of role players. MAYBE an all-star mixed in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Draft Every time I read that list I'm always thinking "who"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Those were some bad years as a Bulls fan, I can remember that draft and hoping the Bulls could do something with those picks, but looking back there was really just a lot of meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 But there are a few guys in the draft I think would be interesting for the Bulls. I could get behind a second round pick of Etwaun Moore or David Lighty, see what they can do at 2 guard. The great news for the Bulls is that have pretty good depth already so can take some risks in the draft, Id love the Bulls to get Leuer (I just think he has an interesting skill set for a big man). The more I look at the draft, the more I like its depth. I think that outside of guys like Williams and Kyrie its a lot of uncertainty. Zoom loves Kanter but ive never even seen him play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Wouldn't mind deandre liggins in the 2nd round, looks like a young Keith bogans, but more athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ May 17, 2011 -> 12:21 AM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_Draft Every time I read that list I'm always thinking "who"? Crawford, Martin, Magloire, and Hedo were the only guys in that draft that were worth a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 17, 2011 -> 06:47 AM) Crawford, Martin, Magloire, and Hedo were the only guys in that draft that were worth a damn. Redd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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