2010-2011 NBA Thread

[southsider2k5]

Ugh, I hate Lebron so much now. Easily becoming the A-Rod of basketball:

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/mia...tory?id=5960277

 

What an idiot.

[southsider2k5]

The Grizzlies have Marc Gasol and Hasheem Thabeet as their Centers, with Zach Randolph and Darrell Arthur as their PF's, and someone named Hamed Haddadi as their 3rd C.

 

Randolph's contract is huge and expiring, Gasol is not under contract next year but they may have his rights as well. The other guys are young, of the sort that they might not be thrilled to move. Thabeet's salary is about $5 million, Arthur and Haddadi are around $1 million.

 

Randolph ought to be interesting as a FA>

[SoxFan1]

Yes. But at the same time, everyone knows Memphis must trade him. They're benching him and killing his value. Even when he's the only option available, they let him get hot, then bench him immediately almost to make sure nobody sees how good he is or can be. It's weird. It's happened about 3 times this year alone.

 

And to be fair, I'd still take Mayo over Rose back then only because I believe Mayo's game will translate better as they get older. Rose on the other hand is already having health problems. It's not good when you have tendinitis in your knees and have lost 3 inches off your vertical within 3 years.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes. But at the same time, everyone knows Memphis must trade him. They're benching him and killing his value. Even when he's the only option available, they let him get hot, then bench him immediately almost to make sure nobody sees how good he is or can be. It's weird. It's happened about 3 times this year alone.

 

And to be fair, I'd still take Mayo over Rose back then only because I believe Mayo's game will translate better as they get older. Rose on the other hand is already having health problems. It's not good when you have tendinitis in your knees and have lost 3 inches off your vertical within 3 years.

 

Um, OK. lol. I don't agree with a thing you said here. But if you have a chance to get a 23-year old talent like Mayo in return for a couple role players and a draft pick, you do it. Rose/Mayo/Noah/Boozer sets you up quite nicely for a number of years. Not just 2011.

[nitetrain8601]

Randolph ought to be interesting as a FA>

 

Agreed. He seems to have calmed down in Memphis. He's also as productive if not more. Too bad, there's no structure in Memphis. They don't have bad guys, they just have no direction. Tons of talent though.

 

 

It's my opinion. If Memphis had drafted Rose and Chicago had drafted Mayo, I'd think both be in different positions right now. No doubt though, Rose has had arguably a HOF worthy start to his career. OJ has not. We gotta see what happens. Hopefully OJ can go to another team.

[nitetrain8601]

Um, OK. lol. I don't agree with a thing you said here. But if you have a chance to get a 23-year old talent like Mayo in return for a couple role players and a draft pick, you do it. Rose/Mayo/Noah/Boozer sets you up quite nicely for a number of years. Not just 2011.

 

You don't have to agree. Especially if the Bulls end up with Mayo. That would be a heck of a core, and the window for a championship would be broken wide open by Gar Forman for years to come.

[SoxFan1]

Agreed. He seems to have calmed down in Memphis. He's also as productive if not more. Too bad, there's no structure in Memphis. They don't have bad guys, they just have no direction. Tons of talent though.

 

 

 

It's my opinion. If Memphis had drafted Rose and Chicago had drafted Mayo, I'd think both be in different positions right now. No doubt though, Rose has had arguably a HOF worthy start to his career. OJ has not. We gotta see what happens. Hopefully OJ can go to another team.

I just think the reasons you cited in your argument are hilarious, that is all.

[nitetrain8601]

I just think the reasons you cited in your argument are hilarious, that is all.

 

I suppose. But every year since Mayo's rookie year, his usage % has gone down while his PER goes down. Two stats I think which are linked, especially for guys who should be high usage players. Guys like Dwayne Wade, Derrick Rose, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, etc.

 

Again, I have no problem admitting OJ has shown less thus far than Rose. A lot less. But you also have to understand their situations and how they're much much different. OJ may very well be overrated from his hype in high school. Rose is certainly a bigger star than anyone could've imagined. I'm glad Rose is on my favorite team. What would you like me to say?

[SoxFan1]

I suppose. But every year since Mayo's rookie year, his usage % has gone down while his PER goes down. Two stats I think which are linked, especially for guys who should be high usage players. Guys like Dwayne Wade, Derrick Rose, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, etc.

 

Again, I have no problem admitting OJ has shown less thus far than Rose. A lot less. But you also have to understand their situations and how they're much much different. OJ may very well be overrated from his hype in high school. Rose is certainly a bigger star than anyone could've imagined. I'm glad Rose is on my favorite team. What would you like me to say?

I'm just wondering where you're getting the 3 inch vertical loss from? And if I'm understanding you correctly, you think Rose's lack of regard for attacking the basket is going to cost him in the long run where as Mayo's playing style allows for him to be much more durable in the future? I'll agree with you there, but that's something you deal with when it comes along. Rose's conditioning is impeccable, I think everyone will agree with that. But he's also one of the more physical PG's ever seen. Look at how long guys like Gary Payton and Derek Fisher have lasted though.

[nitetrain8601]

I'm just wondering where you're getting the 3 inch vertical loss from? And if I'm understanding you correctly, you think Rose's lack of regard for attacking the basket is going to cost him in the long run where as Mayo's playing style allows for him to be much more durable in the future? I'll agree with you there, but that's something you deal with when it comes along. Rose's conditioning is impeccable, I think everyone will agree with that. But he's also one of the more physical PG's ever seen. Look at how long guys like Gary Payton and Derek Fisher have lasted though.

 

The idea in an 82-game season is to make things as easy as possible. So far, Rose has had to work extremely hard for everything. He said his vertical jump has fallen 3 inches to 37, thanks to the wear and tear of the past few years. He's running around picks to get open. He's taking one Poor Guy or another to the basket and dealing with the large men waiting for him.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/morrissey/2...rying-wall.html

 

And it's not that Rose goes in there with reckless abandon. He actually doesn't. His driving game is great in the regards that he is able to contort his body so he doesn't end up taking hard contact and still is able to make most of his ridiculous shots. It's a matter of his game being so relied on speed and quickness. When your knees are detoriorating that quickly, it's scary. I don't want to say it's a Brandon Roy situation, but still. You have to be concerned with it. The good thing is that he's constantly working on his game because he knows he won't always be able to outjump or outrun everyone.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You don't have to agree. Especially if the Bulls end up with Mayo. That would be a heck of a core, and the window for a championship would be broken wide open by Gar Forman for years to come.

 

Maybe I'm confused. Then you're saying that package, assuming it's legit, would definitely be worth Mayo? And what do you mean broken wide open by Forman?

[DBAHO]

The issue I see with Mayo is that he's not really a 2.

 

He's more of a 1 than a 2 but he's that classic sort of combo guard.

 

And he also needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. That would be an issue playing alongside Rose.

[nitetrain8601]

Maybe I'm confused. Then you're saying that package, assuming it's legit, would definitely be worth Mayo? And what do you mean broken wide open by Forman?

 

It would be worth Mayo down the road. But the thing is, the league is a what have you done for me lately. Memphis has killed his value and all have entered an impasse in which they will have to deal him. They don't have the funds to pay him for what they're using him as. They already paid Conley and Gay. Gasol and Randolph will be looking for paydays and are much more needed for what they do. They drafted Xavier Henry and are trying out SG's. It's pretty clear, they have no intention on keeping him. As for the Bulls, they still need some type of bench. I would say I'd do the deal as constructed, but Memphis can only have one of Asik/Gibson, not both.

 

And what I mean is that the Bulls would be a top contender in the East for awhile considering the age average of the team. Their future core has an average age of something like 23 or 24. That's nuts. Only team they'd have to deal with is Miami, but also remember, Wade will be breaking down.

[Rowand44]

The issue I see with Mayo is that he's not really a 2.

 

He's more of a 1 than a 2 but he's that classic sort of combo guard.

 

And he also needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. That would be an issue playing alongside Rose.

Mayo isn't a 1 at all, not really sure why this keeps coming up.

[southsider2k5]

One interesting name I have seen come up today is Yao. Apparently the Rockets are marketing him as an expiring deal. I wonder if there is a way to make a three way work with the Rockets to get Yao to Denver, and Carmelo to the Bulls?

[SoxAce]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/morrissey/2...rying-wall.html

 

And it's not that Rose goes in there with reckless abandon. He actually doesn't. His driving game is great in the regards that he is able to contort his body so he doesn't end up taking hard contact and still is able to make most of his ridiculous shots. It's a matter of his game being so relied on speed and quickness. When your knees are detoriorating that quickly, it's scary. I don't want to say it's a Brandon Roy situation, but still. You have to be concerned with it. The good thing is that he's constantly working on his game because he knows he won't always be able to outjump or outrun everyone.

 

I highly doubt Derrick Rose still times his vertical jump from what he did three years ago at the combine, and if he did, it's obvious he jumps more explosively in games than he does at practice (hell that dunk versus New York in the first meeting this year is clear obvious of that). And if he has, so what? He can lose another 2-3 inches in the next three years and he'll still be as athletic as Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo. I just want him to further grasp the position of PG anyways in the next 3-5 years. Hell John Wall already is having ankle problems. I don't think the Wizards are too worried about his athleticism or B-Ball I.Q. Amar'e isn't the same athletic beast as he was pre micro-fracture surgery, but he is still a freak. Just last year, the dude touched his head on the back of the backboard throwing it down on Dragic. I would say at worst, he's lost an inch, maybe two off his vertical (if at all) from more of the ankle problems (and the turf toe) falling around like D-Wade. Congrats.. he's John Wall athletically right now. Not bad.

[nitetrain8601]

The issue I see with Mayo is that he's not really a 2.

 

He's more of a 1 than a 2 but he's that classic sort of combo guard.

 

And he also needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. That would be an issue playing alongside Rose.

 

Disagreed. Mayo is effective off the ball as well. Throw him through a few screens and let him get the wide open 3 playing off of Rose. He's good both on and off the ball. I used to think he should be a PG, but I see he's more of a natural scorer who has ballhandling ability. He would be nice to lead the 2nd team when Rose is getting a breather. Him and Rose are also really right with Tyreke and Russell Westbrook. All of them are hardworkers and I don't forsee any problems with chemistry.

 

The best part of it is, the Bulls would have a legit 2nd ballhandler playing next to Rose. In crucial games, that's important. Want to trap Rose, throw it to Mayo, and let him and Booze play the two man game and vice versa.

[SoxAce]

The best part of it is, the Bulls would have a legit 2nd ballhandler playing next to Rose. In crucial games, that's important. Want to trap Rose, throw it to Mayo, and let him and Booze play the two man game and vice versa.

 

Agreed, and I think that is critical for this team now and going forward.

[hitlesswonder]

Um, OK. lol. I don't agree with a thing you said here. But if you have a chance to get a 23-year old talent like Mayo in return for a couple role players and a draft pick, you do it. Rose/Mayo/Noah/Boozer sets you up quite nicely for a number of years. Not just 2011.

 

I think people are really over-estimating Mayo. Obviously he's a high draft pick and has always had a bunch of hype around him. But he's having a bad year his third year in the league, his shooting is down, his assist and rebound numbers are bad. He can shoot OK from 3 and he has a quick first step and shown a willingness to defend. But it's not like he looks like he's going to make an all-star team any time soon.

 

Compare Mayo to Courtney Lee and then explain why Mayo is worth Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, James Johnson, and the Charlotte draft pick while Lee's value is so much less. Obviously Mayo still has some potential, but I think that's just too much to give up for a player that has performed at the level Mayo has.

[Balta1701]

One interesting name I have seen come up today is Yao. Apparently the Rockets are marketing him as an expiring deal. I wonder if there is a way to make a three way work with the Rockets to get Yao to Denver, and Carmelo to the Bulls?

Adding in the Yao step only makes sense if the Rockets really like Deng and the Nuggets don't want him. It really doesn't make things that much easier otherwise.

 

In fact, it probably makes it harder...because Deng + Gibson + Johnson = Yao or Deng + Gibson + Johnson = Anthony. You really blow all of the Bulls shots trying to get Yao, and you have nothing left to turn him into Anthony.

[nitetrain8601]

I think people are really over-estimating Mayo. Obviously he's a high draft pick and has always had a bunch of hype around him. But he's having a bad year his third year in the league, his shooting is down, his assist and rebound numbers are bad. He can shoot OK from 3 and he has a quick first step and shown a willingness to defend. But it's not like he looks like he's going to make an all-star team any time soon.

 

Compare Mayo to Courtney Lee and then explain why Mayo is worth Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, James Johnson, and the Charlotte draft pick while Lee's value is so much less. Obviously Mayo still has some potential, but I think that's just too much to give up for a player that has performed at the level Mayo has.

 

Compare the situations they have been in. Compare the talent level. Compare the BBall IQ.

[southsider2k5]

Adding in the Yao step only makes sense if the Rockets really like Deng and the Nuggets don't want him. It really doesn't make things that much easier otherwise.

 

It was pretty clear in the off-season that Denver didn't want Deng. No idea what the interest level of Houston would, or wouldn't, be. I will say Houston is really weak at the 3.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/la-sp-h...urce=feedburner

 

Unfortunately, with Paul signed through 2012, the Hornets wouldn't have taken the entire Cavalier roster for him.

 

James didn't make his decision until Bosh told him he was going to Miami with Wade ... who had almost bolted for Chicago, taking Bosh, before yielding to pleas by Heat President Pat Riley and owner Micky Arison.

 

With Chicago trying to dump Luol Deng for enough cap room to sign Wade, Bosh and James, Riley's hair went from Gordon Gekko brown in "Wall Street" to Gekko silver in "Wall Street 2," worrying the Bulls would hit the jackpot.

 

Not that LeBron will acknowledge any of this.

 

Text alerts: Get South Florida sports news on your phone

 

Being LeBron, who doesn't look back or make excuses... apart from the fact that Bosh, his teammate, is the reason they're not in Cleveland together now.

 

This leads to dialogue with the media, like this Thursday in Phoenix:

 

Q: "A lot of people say you tried to stay to the end, talking to players, trying to get them to come."

 

James: "Well, you know, there were a lot of things that went on, but at the end, I thought this was the best situation for me and that's why I decided to come."

 

Q: "Are the things I mentioned true? Did that stuff happen?"

 

James, laughing: "Well, just like I just said, there were a lot of things that went on."

 

LeBron handled questions about his injured right elbow in the Boston series the same way ... which is why he was accused of quitting.

 

If LeBron can handle being vilified, there are signs of the toll it has taken.

 

At the moment, he isn't talking to ESPN — ironic, given the lengths to which it has gone to identify itself with him — after some of its pundits ripped his misbegotten TV special ... on their network.

[DBAHO]

I think people are really over-estimating Mayo. Obviously he's a high draft pick and has always had a bunch of hype around him. But he's having a bad year his third year in the league, his shooting is down, his assist and rebound numbers are bad. He can shoot OK from 3 and he has a quick first step and shown a willingness to defend. But it's not like he looks like he's going to make an all-star team any time soon.

 

Compare Mayo to Courtney Lee and then explain why Mayo is worth Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, James Johnson, and the Charlotte draft pick while Lee's value is so much less. Obviously Mayo still has some potential, but I think that's just too much to give up for a player that has performed at the level Mayo has.

For what you'd have to give up to get either player, I think a Lee / Brewer rotation at SG makes a lot of sense for the Bulls going forward.

[hitlesswonder]

Compare the situations they have been in. Compare the talent level. Compare the BBall IQ.

 

Compare the performance. I'd rather have Mayo, but Mayo has gotten a chance to play way more than Lee -- Mayo has had the better situation. He's been on a team with a very good post presence and he has gotten a lot of minutes. And yet his game has not progressed like others in his draft class have.

 

Again, I'm not saying Mayo is bad or lacks potential. But I think that package is way too much to give up for him. Mayo does not make the Bulls a threat to Miami this year and I don't have confidence his game is going to make a quantum leap in the next few years to all-star level.