Trade Candidates for Kenny this offseason

[LittleHurt05]

CQ was Soriano-like in that he was able to somewhat mask a below average offensive season with a ridiculous 2-week hot stretch. From June 22 through July 11 (16 games): .367/.492/1.082/1.573. 11 HRs, 24 RBIs.

 

Now I know you can take away a lot of players' peak hot streaks and their numbers don't look as impressive. But this is pretty damn extreme in this case. Outside of those 2 weeks CQ was straight poopie.

 

10 of those homers, and 22 of those RBIs were at home too. His home/road splits last year were ridiculous, and the Cell is nothing like Coors Field either.

[Dick Allen]

.228/.322/.406/.728 outside of those two weeks

Adam Dunn was .223/.337/.466/.803 with 91 strikeouts in 238 AB the second half of the season. Yet, if he signed for 3 years and $40 million some would consider the problems, and considering they were ranked in the top half of almost every offensive category in the AL last year solved.

[witesoxfan]

Adam Dunn was .223/.337/.466/.803 with 91 strikeouts in 238 AB the second half of the season. Yet, if he signed for 3 years and $40 million some would consider the problems, and considering they were ranked in the top half of almost every offensive category in the AL last year solved.

 

That's an .803 OPS over half of a season, and an .803 OPS is still way above average, and that was considered him "struggling". Quentin's .728 was his entire season outside of the 3 weeks prior to the All-Star Break.

 

I don't understand why you are incessant about there being little difference between Quentin and Dunn when you can quite clearly see that there is a huge difference. Dunn has a mediocre season by his standards, Quentin has his second best season, Dunn's is still superior, and you try and suggest they are equal; Quentin puts up a .728 OPS outside of a 3 week period where he put up a 1.500+ OPS (which, at the end of the day, still equates an .821 OPS or whatever over the course of the full season), and Dunn puts up an .803 OPS in the second half, which is still pretty damn good especially considering that is far worse than expected out of him, and you are trying to suggest that they are on equal footing.

 

The White Sox biggest problem last year was their lack of a powerful left handed bat. LHB put up a .272/.326/.368/.694 line against right handed pitching this year, and no matter how you slice and dice that, it's awful, and bringing in a powerful left handed bat would be good. Thome would have made a hell of a lot of sense for this club, considering he was cheap and left handed, but no matter what, the Sox need to bring in a left handed bat, and surprise surprise, Dunn is left handed, provides a sweet stroke, and gets on base quite a bit...so yes, he does solve a lot of the White Sox offensive problems.

 

That doesn't mean that anybody here is advocating giving him $40 million.

 

I don't understand why you've been on this Quentin/Dunn thing recently. Dunn is a superior player to Quentin, and I don't think that's really too hard to see. Because of his low contact rate, Dunn's production can fluctuate, but he still walks and hits a ton otherwise. Quentin can explode, and has in the past, but anybody counting on that next season or any time in the future is really holding on to a prayer, because he's looked like the Carlos of old for that 3 week period before the break, and hasn't otherwise.

[shago]

Very interesting that no one is discussing potentially dumping EJaxx and/or Buehrle on the Yankees .... they have no problem with the payroll, are desperate for pitching of any kind, especially in the case of Jackson, someone under the age of 35. Additionally, they have both prospects and other talent that could be moved. Given Posada is old, doubt they move Montero (who we should be all over if there is any shot they would trade him)

Edited October 25, 2010 by La Marr Hoyt HOF

[bigruss]

Very interesting that no one is discussing potentially dumping AJaxx and/or Buehrle on the Yankees .... they have no problem with the payroll, are desperate for pitching of any kind, especially in the case of Jackson, someone under the age of 35. Additionally, they have both prospects and other talent that could be moved. Given Posada is old, doubt they move Montero (who we should be all over if there is any shot they would trade him)

They can just buy most of the pitching they need anyways...

[Dick Allen]

That's an .803 OPS over half of a season, and an .803 OPS is still way above average, and that was considered him "struggling". Quentin's .728 was his entire season outside of the 3 weeks prior to the All-Star Break.

 

I don't understand why you are incessant about there being little difference between Quentin and Dunn when you can quite clearly see that there is a huge difference. Dunn has a mediocre season by his standards, Quentin has his second best season, Dunn's is still superior, and you try and suggest they are equal; Quentin puts up a .728 OPS outside of a 3 week period where he put up a 1.500+ OPS (which, at the end of the day, still equates an .821 OPS or whatever over the course of the full season), and Dunn puts up an .803 OPS in the second half, which is still pretty damn good especially considering that is far worse than expected out of him, and you are trying to suggest that they are on equal footing.

 

The White Sox biggest problem last year was their lack of a powerful left handed bat. LHB put up a .272/.326/.368/.694 line against right handed pitching this year, and no matter how you slice and dice that, it's awful, and bringing in a powerful left handed bat would be good. Thome would have made a hell of a lot of sense for this club, considering he was cheap and left handed, but no matter what, the Sox need to bring in a left handed bat, and surprise surprise, Dunn is left handed, provides a sweet stroke, and gets on base quite a bit...so yes, he does solve a lot of the White Sox offensive problems.

 

That doesn't mean that anybody here is advocating giving him $40 million.

 

I don't understand why you've been on this Quentin/Dunn thing recently. Dunn is a superior player to Quentin, and I don't think that's really too hard to see. Because of his low contact rate, Dunn's production can fluctuate, but he still walks and hits a ton otherwise. Quentin can explode, and has in the past, but anybody counting on that next season or any time in the future is really holding on to a prayer, because he's looked like the Carlos of old for that 3 week period before the break, and hasn't otherwise.

Dunn generally is superior. I'm just pointing out the worthless, horrible, must be dumped for any price Carlos Quentin has value. Sort of like Konerko last year. Cherry picking numbers is fine, I just wish the people doing the cherry picking are consistent. If you or they were, you would never mention again the Nick Swisher trade as looking at his 2008 season, except for 2 or 3 weeks, he makes the numbers being dubbed for Quentin MVP-like.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Dick Allen

[gatnom]

Dunn generally is superior. I'm just pointing out the worthless, horrible, must be dumped for any price Carlos Quentin has value. Sort of like Konerko last year. Cherry picking numbers is fine, I just wish the people doing the cherry picking are consistent. If you or they were, you would never mention again the Nick Swisher trade as looking at his 2008 season, except for 2 or 3 weeks, he makes the numbers being dubbed for Quentin MVP-like.

 

I think the point is that the potential that Quentin has to play similarly to how he did in 2008 is worth more to us than to any other team, and if he has yet another mediocre or oft-injured season, his value will be less than what he will be paid.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your last sentence, but I really hope you aren't trying to say that since we traded away Nick Swisher he had value because we pretty much got nothing out of that trade.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I think the point is that the potential that Quentin has to play similarly to how he did in 2008 is worth more to us than to any other team, and if he has yet another mediocre or oft-injured season, his value will be less than what he will be paid.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your last sentence, but I really hope you aren't trying to say that since we traded away Nick Swisher he had value because we pretty much got nothing out of that trade.

No what I was saying is if you think Carlos Quentin played well for 3 weeks and has no value, you should have felt the same way about Nick Swisher, and should never complain some team took his entire contract, even if they gave you garbage in return. With the Sox, Swisher was good for about 3 weeks and hit below .200 tne rest of the time.

[witesoxfan]

I thought the Sox sold low on Swisher and that he was unlucky in his one year in Chicago, but I honestly never had any real problem getting rid of him. He did have more of a track record than Quentin does.

 

What I've been trying to suggest is what was said above...that Quentin's value is far greater to the White Sox than anybody else. The Sox will view him as a guy who can hit 35 homers and put up a .900 OPS while playing adequate defense, while other teams will view him as an injury risk who is inconsistent and plays terrible defense. They're the same player, just different scenarios and differing opinions on the value of said player.

 

I don't think the Sox are going to be able to find a better investment on the open market for $5 million, so they may as well stick with him one more year. If he doesn't do much this year, he will be let go because paying a guy $7 million to hit .240 and 25 home runs who does not play very good defense just is not smart.

[greg775]

I thought the Sox sold low on Swisher and that he was unlucky in his one year in Chicago, but I honestly never had any real problem getting rid of him. He did have more of a track record than Quentin does.

 

What I've been trying to suggest is what was said above...that Quentin's value is far greater to the White Sox than anybody else. The Sox will view him as a guy who can hit 35 homers and put up a .900 OPS while playing adequate defense, while other teams will view him as an injury risk who is inconsistent and plays terrible defense. They're the same player, just different scenarios and differing opinions on the value of said player.

 

I don't think the Sox are going to be able to find a better investment on the open market for $5 million, so they may as well stick with him one more year. If he doesn't do much this year, he will be let go because paying a guy $7 million to hit .240 and 25 home runs who does not play very good defense just is not smart.

 

Off topic I thought Swish had an awful at bat in a crucial playoff spot when the ball hit him in the leg and as the color man said he "didn't even try to sell it" at all. He ended up making an easy out. I'm not a Swish fan.

[gatnom]

No what I was saying is if you think Carlos Quentin played well for 3 weeks and has no value, you should have felt the same way about Nick Swisher, and should never complain some team took his entire contract, even if they gave you garbage in return. With the Sox, Swisher was good for about 3 weeks and hit below .200 tne rest of the time.

 

Well, that's the kind of risk you take when trading a guy when his value is at its lowest. He might end up doing what you once thought he could. I did think Swisher had a low value, and that coupled with the fact that he had an unlucky season made me think it was a bad idea to trade him, even with his contract. Swisher obviously forced KW's hand in trading him by not fitting in well in the clubhouse, but I think most people's beef with that trade lies in the fact that we gave up quite a bit of value for a very poor return, Swishers' 2008 season, while going on to actually make that poor return worse by trading him to the Yankees. Individually, the trades aren't all that bad all things considered, but when you put them together they are ugly.

 

Not entirely sure what this has to do with Carlos Quentin or Adam Dunn, though.

[Dick Allen]

Well, that's the kind of risk you take when trading a guy when his value is at its lowest. He might end up doing what you once thought he could. I did think Swisher had a low value, and that coupled with the fact that he had an unlucky season made me think it was a bad idea to trade him, even with his contract. Swisher obviously forced KW's hand in trading him by not fitting in well in the clubhouse, but I think most people's beef with that trade lies in the fact that we gave up quite a bit of value for a very poor return, Swishers' 2008 season, while going on to actually make that poor return worse by trading him to the Yankees. Individually, the trades aren't all that bad all things considered, but when you put them together they are ugly.

 

Not entirely sure what this has to do with Carlos Quentin or Adam Dunn, though.

If you think Swisher had a lot of value but was traded when he had none, how can you not say the same thing about Quentin?

[spiderman]

Gavin is under the Sox's control through the end of 2013 if they pick up a team option.

 

Edwin Jackson could be on the block...but his value is not "boosted" even by a good end of the season. He's a guy who has been dumped by 3 teams in the space of 2 years, who is 1 year away from Free Agency and a Boras guy. He can't be expected to help a team long-term, he's already not cheap, and his pitching record the last 2 years is at best described as inconsistent. Put it this way...why do you want to be the team picking up a guy that 4 teams dumped in 2 years?

 

They might try to trade Jackson, but they're not getting anything of serious use for him. It's a salary dump.

 

If they trade Jackson, maybe it's too save salary, but I think they could get a solid piece back. He's a veteran pitcher who shown the ability to be a solid starting pitcher. The team acquiring him isn't forced to take on years/money so while you're not getting anybody's top prospect(s), but you can get back a useful piece.

[gatnom]

If you think Swisher had a lot of value but was traded when he had none, how can you not say the same thing about Quentin?

 

Well, I guess we could trade him for the sake of trading him and get nothing in return like Swisher. I don't know why you would, though.

[striker]

Chris Davis - Rangers

[LittleHurt05]

Chris Davis - Rangers

 

I like it. Viciedo doesn't swing & miss enough, so we can get Davis to provide the whiffs for the whole team.

[Wanne]

Looking forward to the 40 pages of Gonzalez talk again when SD figures they have to dump him sometime between now and the trading deadline next season....

[2nd_city_saint787]

idk if hes been mentioned yet but how bout Jorge Cantu? idk if hes a free agent or not if he is forget this statement.....Danks for Cantu, Max Ramirez(or treanor or teagarden), a bullpen arm(derrek holland maybe) + another prospect or 2 . That deal fills 3 holes Then push hard for Dunn.

 

Pierre

Beckham

Rios

Dunn

Cantu

Q

Lexi

Ramirez

Morel

 

make another trade for a lefty bat to balance out the lineup and your set

[chisoxfan09]

Looking forward to the 40 pages of Gonzalez talk again when SD figures they have to dump him sometime between now and the trading deadline next season....

 

This should pretty much put the Agon debate to rest. No way we can afford him with our budget and KW/JR just don´t have a history of shelling out the megabucks (over 20 million per season) that it will take to even draw interest.

 

Link: http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/669865530630144#

 

Content:

 

spoke to #padres superstar adrian gonzalez's agent john boggs. mentioned teixeira, howard, mauer. clear he seeks 22 mil plus.

 

That translates to 5/110 or 6/132 minimum to get the bidding started if an extension window is even offered by the Pads to any trading partner, let alone what kind of trading package they want. The smart thinking would say that eventhough they had a good year his trade value is much higher at the WInter meetings than at the July dealine next year. There is another article that still puts the Sox as interested trade partners but this ship has long sailed (I was once really excited about the prospect of trying to get him here). More realistic is Paulie on a 2 year with nice salary and incentives.

Edited November 6, 2010 by chisoxfan09

[Balta1701]

If the Sox have a Kotsay style 1b mess this season, stay in the race (i.e. Healthy Peavy), and the Padres Fall out...KW would at least put in the call, but realistically what are the Sox going to have that the Padres would take over the 2 draft picks? If Mitchell has a good season he could qualify, and Sale could qualify...but even if someone else starts off having a great year in the minors, a great 2-3 months isn't going to turn a guy into trade-bait for Gonzalez.

[Dick Allen]

I think the Sox trade Alex Rios. He had decent numbers overall, but his second half was worse than the numbers he had with Toronto when they gave him away. The Sox might be able to sell the entire line of work and might get some decent parts back for him, and free up cash money.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

I think the Sox trade Alex Rios. He had decent numbers overall, but his second half was worse than the numbers he had with Toronto when they gave him away. The Sox might be able to sell the entire line of work and might get some decent parts back for him, and free up cash money.

The biggest argument why that won't happen is that CF is the one position where we can say the Sox legitimately have no one who could be pressed into service. You might not like Flowers at C, Morel at 3b, Viciedo at 1b, Quentin in RF, Santos or Sale at closer...but if we don't sign or trade for someone to fill those positions, we can field a lineup there. If the Sox trade Rios...who steps in? Either they're forced to outbid the Yankees and Halos for Crawford/Werth, which will make Rios's contract seem cheap, or we have some combination of De Aza/D2/Gartrell playing there. May as well go for the full rebuild if you're not holding Rios.

[Dick Allen]

The biggest argument why that won't happen is that CF is the one position where we can say the Sox legitimately have no one who could be pressed into service. You might not like Flowers at C, Morel at 3b, Viciedo at 1b, Quentin in RF, Santos or Sale at closer...but if we don't sign or trade for someone to fill those positions, we can field a lineup there. If the Sox trade Rios...who steps in? Either they're forced to outbid the Yankees and Halos for Crawford/Werth, which will make Rios's contract seem cheap, or we have some combination of De Aza/D2/Gartrell playing there. May as well go for the full rebuild if you're not holding Rios.

Rios was great the first half, but if he starts playing like he played the second half, we will start counting the days before his contract is off the books. With another $12 million a year freed up, the Sox wouldn't have to rely on in-house options to replace him.

[Balta1701]

Rios was great the first half, but if he starts playing like he played the second half, we will start counting the days before his contract is off the books. With another $12 million a year freed up, the Sox wouldn't have to rely on in-house options to replace him.

Seriously, go look at the list of FA outfielders. Outside of Werth and Crawford who should get significantly more than $12 mil, who would actually interest you? Melky Cabrera? Jerry Hairston? Outside of those 2, I don't see anyone on the market who got 400+ AB's last year. Going by at bats, the next 3 down are David Dejesus, Coco Crisp, Jim Edmonds, and Andruw Jones. Those guys put up OPS's close to .800 or even above, but there's a reason they didn't finish off a full season. Rick Ankiel? Willy tavares? Willy Bloomquist?

 

Basically, if you want a full time CF, you're bidding on Werth or Crawford, or you better have a platoon partner for the guy.

[Dick Allen]

Seriously, go look at the list of FA outfielders. Outside of Werth and Crawford who should get significantly more than $12 mil, who would actually interest you? Melky Cabrera? Jerry Hairston? Outside of those 2, I don't see anyone on the market who got 400+ AB's last year. Going by at bats, the next 3 down are David Dejesus, Coco Crisp, Jim Edmonds, and Andruw Jones. Those guys put up OPS's close to .800 or even above, but there's a reason they didn't finish off a full season. Rick Ankiel? Willy tavares? Willy Bloomquist?

 

Basically, if you want a full time CF, you're bidding on Werth or Crawford, or you better have a platoon partner for the guy.

So the only way to acquire players is through FA? If your hopes are the Sox will fill holes with high priced free agents, you haven't been paying attention for years. The last time they gave another team's FA more than 20 million was 14 years ago.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Dick Allen