Trade Candidates for Kenny this offseason

[greg775]

No sane GM would give up anything of value for CQ right now.

 

CQ does need to go away; preferably to an NL team. You guys get mad at me for saying it, but I get tired of ex-Sox beating us all the time. Hide them in the NL, please.

[beck72]

Before people get all crazy, I'm not necessarily saying Cle. would or should do a Grady for Q swap. I'm saying to get Q out--who does have some value, even with his sub par defense-And a push for a guy like Grady in.

 

No teams would trade for Sizemore for what his 2008 value would be. He's had 2 bad, injury filled seasons in a row. Yet Kenny is one GM who would likely give Cle. the closest value to that 2008 season as any. Right now, Cle. needs to get the most talent they can. It may mean waiting to see if Sizemore ups his value and deal him at the deadline. Or they may try and get something of value now, before his value drops further. Who knows what Cle. is asking for or if they even are.

 

Carlos does have some trade value, though. He's not that expensive and has two more years in arb. left. He could dominate in the NL. He could make sense for many low budget teams that need a big bat for either LF or RF. I'd say keep Q as DH but his mind set doesn't seem a good fit for only hitting.

[3E8]

I feel that Quentin has zero trade value. Outside of 2008, he has not been an asset. His plate discipline and defense (making him less valuable in the NL) are both declining. He's simply a huge question mark and had problems with his ankle, hand, knee, and thigh in 2010. Who knows how he'd fare on a team which doesn't have the best athletic training staff in MLB. No one wants to trade anything of worth for an inconsistent player who's health/offense output is unreliable

[Dick Allen]

I feel that Quentin has zero trade value. Outside of 2008, he has not been an asset. His plate discipline and defense (making him less valuable in the NL) are both declining. He's simply a huge question mark and had problems with his ankle, hand, knee, and thigh in 2010. Who knows how he'd fare on a team which doesn't have the best athletic training staff in MLB. No one wants to trade anything of worth for an inconsistent player who's health/offense output is unreliable

 

Adam Dunn 648 plate appearances 38 homers 103 RBI .260 BA .356 OBP .892 OPS--worth $11 million to $15 million a year

 

Carlos Quentin 527 plate appearances 26 homers 87 RBI .243 BA .342 OBP .821 OPS----worthless?

 

 

I don't think so. Quentin is another guy Sox fans will realize is better than they think if he goes away.

[3E8]

I don't know how you can make that comparison. Dunn has played at least 150 games seven years in a row, and hit at least 38 home runs in each of those years. His OBP you listed is the lowest he's had since 2003, he has a career mark of .381. He's established an offensive pedigree which Quentin can't even begin to match. To just take each player's last season numbers and compare them in a vacuum based on Dunn's supposed value on the free agent market is nonsense. Quentin is in his 2nd arb year and thus is a completely different situation, we were discussing his value in a trade. And Quentin has far too many red flags to obtain anything of value in a trade

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Quentin has more value to us than any other team.

[Balta1701]

Adam Dunn 648 plate appearances 38 homers 103 RBI .260 BA .356 OBP .892 OPS--worth $11 million to $15 million a year

 

Carlos Quentin 527 plate appearances 26 homers 87 RBI .243 BA .342 OBP .821 OPS----worthless?

 

 

I don't think so. Quentin is another guy Sox fans will realize is better than they think if he goes away.

Wins above replacement player from Fangraphs:

Carlos Quentin: 0.

Adam Dunn: 3.9.

 

Carlos picked up a ton of home runs, but didn't do anything else effectively, he only got 527 PA's because of all the injury time, and he was a much larger liability in the field than Dunn because you can hide defense at 1b and not have it hurt you as much.

[joeynach]

Adam Dunn 648 plate appearances 38 homers 103 RBI .260 BA .356 OBP .892 OPS--worth $11 million to $15 million a year

 

Carlos Quentin 527 plate appearances 26 homers 87 RBI .243 BA .342 OBP .821 OPS----worthless?

 

 

I don't think so. Quentin is another guy Sox fans will realize is better than they think if he goes away.

 

I agree, CQ has value. How many other cheap, affordable young power hitters are out there. Yeah his Def blows, but this is the AL, we have a DH position so use it. CQ is perfect for that role and that being said someone with essentially locked down 30 Hr and 90 RBI should never be looked at as someone who should be sent away for a bag of balls. CQ should be our everyday DH, and let the sox fill that open OF spot internally or externally.

[joeynach]

Wins above replacement player from Fangraphs:

Carlos Quentin: 0.

Adam Dunn: 3.9.

 

Carlos picked up a ton of home runs, but didn't do anything else effectively, he only got 527 PA's because of all the injury time, and he was a much larger liability in the field than Dunn because you can hide defense at 1b and not have it hurt you as much.

 

So put him at DH.

 

[Balta1701]

So put him at DH.

Last year, he'd have been worth about 1 WAR at DH.

 

He'd have been an upgrade for the Sox at DH...but that's because we made a ridiculous decision on DH.

 

Let me put one other thing into the discussion....this is Carlos's first arbitration year. His salary is going to go from the minimum to about $5 million. That's less of a bargain this year. If he put up another .800-ish OPS next year from the DH spot, he'd be looking at another boost, maybe to the $10 million range. And frankly, I'd consider him a non-tender candidate at that point.

[joeynach]

Last year, he'd have been worth about 1 WAR at DH.

 

He'd have been an upgrade for the Sox at DH...but that's because we made a ridiculous decision on DH.

 

Let me put one other thing into the discussion....this is Carlos's first arbitration year. His salary is going to go from the minimum to about $5 million. That's less of a bargain this year. If he put up another .800-ish OPS next year from the DH spot, he'd be looking at another boost, maybe to the $10 million range. And frankly, I'd consider him a non-tender candidate at that point.

 

He was arbitration eligible last year and got $3.2M, this is his second arb eligible year and he will prolly get a raise in the $4.5-$5M range. THat being said in his final arb eligible year I would expect something like $6-$8M if he keeps up 30HR and 90 RBI production.

[witesoxfan]

Last year, he'd have been worth about 1 WAR at DH.

 

He'd have been an upgrade for the Sox at DH...but that's because we made a ridiculous decision on DH.

 

Let me put one other thing into the discussion....this is Carlos's first arbitration year. His salary is going to go from the minimum to about $5 million. That's less of a bargain this year. If he put up another .800-ish OPS next year from the DH spot, he'd be looking at another boost, maybe to the $10 million range. And frankly, I'd consider him a non-tender candidate at that point.

 

Quentin is probably viewed as an $8-10 mill player on the market, and he'll get probably $3-4 mill next year, $5-6 the following year, and $6-8 in the final year. I imagine $5 mill is within the realm of possibility, but to receive a full 100% increase in salary from his first arbitration year to his second...he better have cured cancer while hitting 50 homers too.

 

[3E8]

CQ is perfect for that role and that being said someone with essentially locked down 30 Hr and 90 RBI should never be looked at as someone who should be sent away for a bag of balls.

How is Quentin "locked down" to hit 30 HRs and get 90 RBIs? He's done that once.

 

Last year, he'd have been worth about 1 WAR at DH.

And with his 2nd-year arb raise, he'll be paid slightly more than one win costs on the market. Whether or not the Sox should keep him is another debate, but as I've said before, you cannot count on any surplus value from him

[witesoxfan]

And with his 2nd-year arb raise, he'll be paid slightly more than one win costs on the market. Whether or not the Sox should keep him is another debate, but as I've said before, you cannot count on any surplus value from him

 

I think you have to atleast offer arbitration to Quentin unless they believe he can be non-tendered and resigned to a cheaper deal, similar to what the A's did with Cust. $5 million for a potential 3-4 WAR player is pretty damn good value. If he does the same thing again next year, you cut the string and let him go for good.

[Balta1701]

I think you have to atleast offer arbitration to Quentin unless they believe he can be non-tendered and resigned to a cheaper deal, similar to what the A's did with Cust. $5 million for a potential 3-4 WAR player is pretty damn good value. If he does the same thing again next year, you cut the string and let him go for good.

THis year, Quentin will still likely earn his money even if he's just at DH. Next year...we need a step up.

[witesoxfan]

THis year, Quentin will still likely earn his money even if he's just at DH. Next year...we need a step up.

 

He needs to show that he can be a middle of the order bat, because he really doesn't do anything else. He needs to be moved from the outfield too, but we'll see if the Sox actually follow through on that.

[beck72]

Adam Dunn 648 plate appearances 38 homers 103 RBI .260 BA .356 OBP .892 OPS--worth $11 million to $15 million a year

 

Carlos Quentin 527 plate appearances 26 homers 87 RBI .243 BA .342 OBP .821 OPS----worthless?

 

 

I don't think so. Quentin is another guy Sox fans will realize is better than they think if he goes away.

I agree. Quentin would be a good option for teams who can't afford Werth, Crawford or Dunn. Q is one of the few guys who could be a middle order of the bat, at a reasonable price for the next two years.

[witesoxfan]

I agree. Quentin would be a good option for teams who can't afford Werth, Crawford or Dunn. Q is one of the few guys who could be a middle order of the bat, at a reasonable price for the next two years.

 

And I strongly doubt that you'll get anything of significant value for Quentin in a trade. As someone mentioned above, Quentin is more valuable to the White Sox than he is anyone else.

 

He's pretty comparable to Ryan Ludwick (except that I believe Ludwick is a great defender and a bit older). Are you going to give up anything truly worthwhile to obtain Ryan Ludwick?

[Dick Allen]

Wins above replacement player from Fangraphs:

Carlos Quentin: 0.

Adam Dunn: 3.9.

 

Carlos picked up a ton of home runs, but didn't do anything else effectively, he only got 527 PA's because of all the injury time, and he was a much larger liability in the field than Dunn because you can hide defense at 1b and not have it hurt you as much.

He drove in a heck of a lot of runs the first half, in fact, his OPS was well over 1.000 with RISP throughout the first half. Try to hide Dunn at 1B and watch Ramirez get 35 errors. Dunn is horrid in the field. As I have stated previously, I believe Dunn is probably a better bet than Quentin, but to say Quentin has no value like the post claimed in my response is silly.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

He drove in a heck of a lot of runs the first half, in fact, his OPS was well over 1.000 with RISP throughout the first half. Try to hide Dunn at 1B and watch Ramirez get 35 errors. Dunn is horrid in the field. As I have stated previously, I believe Dunn is probably a better bet than Quentin, but to say Quentin has no value like the post claimed in my response is silly.

Dunn is horrid when you put him in LF. He's at 1b.

 

Hell, just look at the raw numbers. Quentin was worse in the OF last year than Bobby Abreu. He was almost as bad as Vlad Guerrero, and Vlad barely played there. Quentin didn't play a full season there and led the AL in Errors as a RF.

 

Carlos Quentin in RF last year put up numbers disturbingly similar to the numbers Adam Dunn used to put up when he was in the OF. Nearly 10 errors, .960-ish fielding percentage, terrible range numbers, near the bottom of the league.

 

The only thing that kept Quentin from 10-12 errors last year was the fact that he always gets hurt.

 

Carlos Quentin in 2010 in RF = Adam Dunn in LF.

 

Hell, if you want to go to the advanced statistics, Quentin was worse in RF last year than Adam Dunn ever was in the OF.

[joeynach]

How is Quentin "locked down" to hit 30 HRs and get 90 RBIs? He's done that once.

 

 

And with his 2nd-year arb raise, he'll be paid slightly more than one win costs on the market. Whether or not the Sox should keep him is another debate, but as I've said before, you cannot count on any surplus value from him

 

In what most ppl consider not a good year for CQ he had 27 HR and 85 RBI.....so with some evening out and rounding its not that much of stretch to nominalize his production at 30 HR and 90 RBI. AKA the Jermaine Dye production.

[Jordan4life_2007]

CQ was Soriano-like in that he was able to somewhat mask a below average offensive season with a ridiculous 2-week hot stretch. From June 22 through July 11 (16 games): .367/.492/1.082/1.573. 11 HRs, 24 RBIs.

 

Now I know you can take away a lot of players' peak hot streaks and their numbers don't look as impressive. But this is pretty damn extreme in this case. Outside of those 2 weeks CQ was straight poopie.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Jordan4life

[witesoxfan]

CQ was Soriano-like in that he was able to somewhat mask a below average offensive season with a ridiculous 2-week hot stretch. From June 22 through July 11 (16 games): .367/.492/1.082/1.573. 11 HRs, 24 RBIs.

 

Now I know you can take away a lot of players' peak hot streaks and their numbers don't look as impressive. But this is pretty damn extreme in this case. Outside of those 2 weeks CQ was straight poopie.

 

.228/.322/.406/.728 outside of those two weeks

[bigruss]

.228/.322/.406/.728 outside of those two weeks

Puke

[Jordan4life_2007]

.228/.322/.406/.728 outside of those two weeks

 

You are awesome. And apparently good at math.