bigruss Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (dasox24 @ Feb 1, 2012 -> 05:40 PM) I had 5 weeks off before starting my job, and I think that was a great amount of time - but my scenario was different. I, like you, didn't have much money to travel, but I did have a bunch of friends still in Knoxville so I absolutely lived it up during my last 3 weeks there. Then I moved to Atlanta 2 weeks before starting my job, so I could have plenty of time to get settled and learn an entirely new city. But since you said most of your friends aren't close, and I know you've worked at your company for a few years now (so you're plenty familiar with the company and city), then I totally get your decision. I still may have taken more than 1 week off, but I can't fault your thought-process. Yea I'll be living at home for the first few months so that I can save up some money for an MBA, so I won't have to get acclimated or anything, I can just jump right into it again. I really wish I could travel but when I graduate I may have enough for a domestic trip but not an international one (which is what I want to do again). Also, for those that worked for the Big 4 accounting firms, I know Chisoxfn currently is and or at least started at one (Deloitte I believe?), why can't the starting salary be negotiated at all? One of my roommates interned at one in Chicago and got the highest grades of any intern there, and was personally recruited by the NY audit partner to go work for him there but he was only offered a 2k increase in salary, with no relocation package or bonus. This seems ridiculous as the cost of living can be up to 40% more in NYC compared to Chicago, so I had him send the company an email asking for more money or at least some support to move out there. They declined and he just took the Chicago offer instead. It just seems ridiculous for them to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 5, 2012 -> 10:52 PM) Yea I'll be living at home for the first few months so that I can save up some money for an MBA, so I won't have to get acclimated or anything, I can just jump right into it again. I really wish I could travel but when I graduate I may have enough for a domestic trip but not an international one (which is what I want to do again). Also, for those that worked for the Big 4 accounting firms, I know Chisoxfn currently is and or at least started at one (Deloitte I believe?), why can't the starting salary be negotiated at all? One of my roommates interned at one in Chicago and got the highest grades of any intern there, and was personally recruited by the NY audit partner to go work for him there but he was only offered a 2k increase in salary, with no relocation package or bonus. This seems ridiculous as the cost of living can be up to 40% more in NYC compared to Chicago, so I had him send the company an email asking for more money or at least some support to move out there. They declined and he just took the Chicago offer instead. It just seems ridiculous for them to do that. That is crazy. I know when I was working in the legal field the law firms definitely will pony up for the increased cost of living and relocation and all that...especially if you are one of the "golden boys." Maybe it's just something they are cutting back on for the time being... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I have a test this morning at a job I interviewed last week. It's an IT test so the employeer knows what I now and see if I would e a good fit. Apparently I have to build a 2003 server and there's a written test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 07:44 AM) That is crazy. I know when I was working in the legal field the law firms definitely will pony up for the increased cost of living and relocation and all that...especially if you are one of the "golden boys." Maybe it's just something they are cutting back on for the time being... They seem to be the only companies that won't change their offer at all. They just told him it was competitive and that was it. I would expect at least a 10% increase in salary between the Chicago offer and the NY offer, and at the least help to relocate. But apparently the Big 4 thinks that if you have better offers elsewhere to just go with that instead. I'm just happy I'm not going into accounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) They seem to be the only companies that won't change their offer at all. They just told him it was competitive and that was it. I would expect at least a 10% increase in salary between the Chicago offer and the NY offer, and at the least help to relocate. But apparently the Big 4 thinks that if you have better offers elsewhere to just go with that instead. I'm just happy I'm not going into accounting. I can confirm that my brother went through that. A big 4 that he works for wanted him to go to DC or NYC but without a substantial pay increase their lifestyle would have been altered. They wouldn't budge on salary so he stayed in a smaller market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (G&T @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 09:51 AM) I can confirm that my brother went through that. A big 4 that he works for wanted him to go to DC or NYC but without a substantial pay increase their lifestyle would have been altered. They wouldn't budge on salary so he stayed in a smaller market. They seem to take advantage of their employees that come out of college. Yes, it's a great place to start your career in accounting and I understand that many leave after 3-5 years with them, but if they didn't treat them as such maybe they wouldn't burn them out so badly. I just think that recruiting somebody for an out of state job would come with a standard relo package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 5, 2012 -> 07:52 PM) Yea I'll be living at home for the first few months so that I can save up some money for an MBA, so I won't have to get acclimated or anything, I can just jump right into it again. I really wish I could travel but when I graduate I may have enough for a domestic trip but not an international one (which is what I want to do again). Also, for those that worked for the Big 4 accounting firms, I know Chisoxfn currently is and or at least started at one (Deloitte I believe?), why can't the starting salary be negotiated at all? One of my roommates interned at one in Chicago and got the highest grades of any intern there, and was personally recruited by the NY audit partner to go work for him there but he was only offered a 2k increase in salary, with no relocation package or bonus. This seems ridiculous as the cost of living can be up to 40% more in NYC compared to Chicago, so I had him send the company an email asking for more money or at least some support to move out there. They declined and he just took the Chicago offer instead. It just seems ridiculous for them to do that. Yep. I'm a Manager at Deloitte. Without putting too much out there, since I am part of management, I'll say it has always surprised me how unwilling the firm is to really negotiate with people. However, the reality is, the massive amount of strong candidates that we find on a year to year basis is pretty ridiculous, so the Big 4 firms just have a huge advantage. It is so big that they really don't have to roll out the red carpet for just anyone person (e.g., pay someone 10K more). The one thing I would point out is that the people you recruit that are the top candidate (consensus everyone loves at the top) don't always work out to be the best professional. I think that is the other major issue, you just don't want to pay way more when in reality, you have no idea how much better one is than the other. Especially when you know the top people in the accounting profession are going to be fighting for the spots at the big 4 firms. The overall backgrounds of everyone we hire is very very impressive. It isn't just grades, albeit, everyone has exceptional ones, it is the internship's (and other professional experience), combined with the various community service and on campus leadership positions as well. I thought when I graduated 5 and a half years ago, that my background was pretty solid (3.75 GPA, 4.0 in Accounting, Officer in the Honor's Accounting Fraternity, Internship experience, and founder of Soxtalk). But when I interview, I end up meeting tons of candidates with similar backgrounds and plenty who I'm just left speachless at. I think on the IT side, its a little different and there is some more room for negotiability there (especially when you come in as an experienced consultant) but for entry level they are going to keep everyone similarly in-line until your performance earns the merits of larger increases. You don't make a ton of money starting but the raises tend to be pretty good (there are some years where you get as much as 20%). Albeit with the recession things changed a bit, but I'd recommend it to anyone going into accounting. Big 4 opens a lot of doors, especially if you can hold in to manager. Obviously if you make partner, the pay is great (avg pay around $850K) but that isn't easy and it isn't a life I envy (lots of stress, pressure, hours, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The Sox are having a job fair this sat morning, at the park.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 07:32 AM) They seem to be the only companies that won't change their offer at all. They just told him it was competitive and that was it. I would expect at least a 10% increase in salary between the Chicago offer and the NY offer, and at the least help to relocate. But apparently the Big 4 thinks that if you have better offers elsewhere to just go with that instead. I'm just happy I'm not going into accounting. I am surprised they didn't give him a cost of living adjustment. I know the New York office pays the most of any in the US due to the COI. Chicago is pretty high as well. However, they stick to the "competitive" offer as I think the big 4 firms must have some sort of secret agreement that they all stay within the same price range. Plus if any one firm jumps and offers something, the others follow. About the only really unique thing any of the firms has to offer is Deloitte's launch of its University in Dallas (freaking state of the art) . The place is like a 5 star resort. Its unbelievable. I assume all of the other firms will relaunch "Universities" as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 10:12 AM) I am surprised they didn't give him a cost of living adjustment. I know the New York office pays the most of any in the US due to the COI. Chicago is pretty high as well. However, they stick to the "competitive" offer as I think the big 4 firms must have some sort of secret agreement that they all stay within the same price range. Plus if any one firm jumps and offers something, the others follow. About the only really unique thing any of the firms has to offer is Deloitte's launch of its University in Dallas (freaking state of the art) . The place is like a 5 star resort. Its unbelievable. I assume all of the other firms will relaunch "Universities" as well. I have one roommate working for EnY and another for KPMG (he's the one who wanted to go to NY). They were both offered 55k for an audit position in Chicago, but KPMG is well known to be the leader in salary (usually by a just a few thousand), but they tend to be the first one of the 4 to raise their salary. Deloitte is known to be the most stringent of the 4, but I have no idea actually how true this information is. I know of some slight differences such as KPMG offering more abroad opportunities, or they at least advertise it more. I just feel that a raise from 55k to 57k is ridiculously small considering the cost of living differences between the 2 cities, and that probably pays just for his relo in the first year. I know EnY gave their summer interns fulltim offers a signing bonus while the winter interns that worked right before them didn't get one, that would piss me off as a Winter intern considering they worked during busy season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2012 -> 08:19 AM) I have one roommate working for EnY and another for KPMG (he's the one who wanted to go to NY). They were both offered 55k for an audit position in Chicago, but KPMG is well known to be the leader in salary (usually by a just a few thousand), but they tend to be the first one of the 4 to raise their salary. Deloitte is known to be the most stringent of the 4, but I have no idea actually how true this information is. I know of some slight differences such as KPMG offering more abroad opportunities, or they at least advertise it more. I just feel that a raise from 55k to 57k is ridiculously small considering the cost of living differences between the 2 cities, and that probably pays just for his relo in the first year. I know EnY gave their summer interns fulltim offers a signing bonus while the winter interns that worked right before them didn't get one, that would piss me off as a Winter intern considering they worked during busy season. The winter interns also get paid overtime so it isn't all that bad. Deloitte tends to be the conservative of the group, however, there are major differences in certain areas and everything depends on city. For example, PWC is the slowest promotion path to senior (and I believe mgr as well). I don't speak of KPMG at all (never once did I consider them; I have a very poor opinion of them but that is just me). EY is a very solid firm. I believe they pay slights above Deloitte (in some regions as you move up) but Deloitte offers more vacation time (I'm at 30 days of PTO + 10 holidays). My decision process was always between Deloitte & EY. But those are also the 2 largest in my area (Deloitte being the largest where I live and also the largest globally). As far as international experience, I can't comment on other companies but I know I'm personally looking down that road and Deloitte provides tremendous opportunities (both domestic and abroad). The one I'm looking into is an international one. You have to be a strong performer (highly rated for 2 straight years) and you can sign-up for one as early as a 1st year senior I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Anybody else see the infamous "Mark Rich" resume that floated around to every single IB, accounting, and finance firm today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm great at getting internships. I'm awful at getting jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) Anybody else see the infamous "Mark Rich" resume that floated around to every single IB, accounting, and finance firm today? How NOT to write a cover letter: Mark_Rich.pdf Edited February 9, 2012 by bigruss22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) How NOT to write a cover letter: If I were the person that received that cover letter and resume, I would keep it on my desk long enough to go to a custom stamp-making website, order one that says "DOUCHE" in bolded red lettering, have it shipped to my office, and stamp it on every page of the document. Then I'd piss on it, a la Lou Gramm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) How NOT to write a cover letter: Imagine interviewing that guy. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I will say one thing. The dude succeeded in getting noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) I will say one thing. The dude succeeded in getting noticed. THe email chain had pretty much every single firm in NY and Chicago, and that was all within 1 day. Terrifying Efficiency. That kid will be lucky to ever get a job on Wall Street now. He was already being called a legend by people in that email thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) THe email chain had pretty much every single firm in NY and Chicago, and that was all within 1 day. Terrifying Efficiency. That kid will be lucky to ever get a job on Wall Street now. He was already being called a legend by people in that email thread. Do we know that this isn't just an internet hoax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 10:41 AM) Do we know that this isn't just an internet hoax? Someone later in the chain found him on facebook and added his picture, all I can say if it's fake, then they set it up beautifully. Forbes and Yahoo Finance had articles on how not to write a cover letter referencing his yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (farmteam @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 10:55 PM) If I were the person that received that cover letter and resume, I would keep it on my desk long enough to go to a custom stamp-making website, order one that says "DOUCHE" in bolded red lettering, have it shipped to my office, and stamp it on every page of the document. Then I'd piss on it, a la Lou Gramm. Do you mean Lou Brown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) THe email chain had pretty much every single firm in NY and Chicago, and that was all within 1 day. Terrifying Efficiency. That kid will be lucky to ever get a job on Wall Street now. He was already being called a legend by people in that email thread. Call it a hunch, but I bet the guy has a job by the end of next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Do you mean Lou Brown? Yes, yes I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So the bank I work for announced they're laying off 1000 more jobs by September, and I haven't been informed that my position is definitely safe after this latest update. I'm starting to think it's time to consider my options again (in terms of trying to look for work in the US again potentially). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 02:22 AM) So the bank I work for announced they're laying off 1000 more jobs by September, and I haven't been informed that my position is definitely safe after this latest update. I'm starting to think it's time to consider my options again (in terms of trying to look for work in the US again potentially). In this day and age it is never a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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