Job Hunt Thread

[Disco72]

I am a human resources intern and I spend a lot of time reviewing resumes. I see a lot of what you see and I agree with most of what you said. I might have limited experience, but have noticed a lot of what you are talking about. I actually saw a resume a few weeks back for an administrative position where the woman listed her karate achievements on her resume (example: 3rd place in tournament 2006). I don't know what she was going for there.

 

I would like to add to your list as well. I am quite confused as to why companies still demand cover letters. Every single one says the same thing. It is an overview of the resume, followed by "I know that I would be a great fit for your organization" and "I look forward to hearing from you" I don't even read them except to confirm that the person applying can write complete sentences.

 

A lot of cover letters may be cookie cutter, but sometimes you really do see something different and interesting (or vice versa, something that kills an applicant's chances). I still think they serve a useful purpose.

[The Gooch]

A lot of cover letters may be cookie cutter, but sometimes you really do see something different and interesting (or vice versa, something that kills an applicant's chances). I still think they serve a useful purpose.

 

I think this is more often true for the latter. Cover letters can be useful, but they are not worth the cost and time it takes to read them. Especially with the volume of applications that are received today due to the internet. If you don't have the basic qualifications, you probably aren't getting an interview. If you get an interview because of a clever cover letter, you will most likely be weeded out during the interview process. The only bigger wastes of time that are commonly used are letters of recommendation (but these are mostly used for internships, college admission, etc, and not so much for actual jobs anymore).

[2nd_city_saint787]

Do businesses really check to see/have anyway of knowing how long a person actually worked at a company?? I applied at Prompt today to be a VST (clean the trucks) and i legit accidentally put that i started the job in 06 instead of 08, instead of crossing it out i left it knowing my boss there is a lifelong friend and would have my back. Is there anything they can check aside from calling my manager to see if i worked there that long??

[kapkomet]

Do businesses really check to see/have anyway of knowing how long a person actually worked at a company?? I applied at Prompt today to be a VST (clean the trucks) and i legit accidentally put that i started the job in 06 instead of 08, instead of crossing it out i left it knowing my boss there is a lifelong friend and would have my back. Is there anything they can check aside from calling my manager to see if i worked there that long??

 

 

Oh yes. They can and do check length of employment. If it's an honest mistake, call them back and tell them.

[DBAHO]

I just got offered a job as a Fraud Analyst at one of the Big 4 Banks down here in Melbourne.

 

Right now they're doing a background check, and they have to do both a domestic and international police check (since my last 2 jobs have been in New York and then London).

 

So I could be starting either on Monday or in 3-4 weeks time (depending on whether they can have me start after the domestic one is cleared).

[HuskyCaucasian]

The job I REALLY wanted called my references, but I did not make the top three for an interview. oh well.

[southsideirish71]

When it comes to a persons resume, and this is from a person that interviews people from time to time, sometimes, less is more.

 

Things I hate and immediately notice when going through resumes:

 

1) Super busy resumes filled with nonsense that nobody cares about, strewn about the entire surface of the paper as to make it look more impressive than it actually is. To me, that shows the person is trying to throw stuff at the wall rather than being concise about what it is they can actually do. On a resume, WHITE space = good. I want to know the basics about you by glancing at the top half of page 1, and if I can't...I'll find another one that can.

 

2) Resume fabrication whores that do nothing but flatter themselves in their "scope of work"/experience section with gobs of what I call "impossibilities". For example, a person claiming they installed a network of 50,000 servers, spread over 14 states. Reason: Because no you didn't...you assisted many other people with such an implementation, but you didn't do it yourself, so don't make it sound like you did.

 

3) The "Impossible Skillset liar-face". Example Skillset: Windows 7, Windows XP, *nix (Linux/Unix), Mac OSX, VAX, Mainframe, C++, Java, C#, Scripting, Perl, PHP, HTML, Cisco Routers/Firewalls, Checkpoint, etc... Basically, they claim to know everything about everything related to a specific industry. These are immediately dismissed, because no you don't...and if you did, you wouldn't have to look for jobs...ever, because jobs would look for you.

 

4) The "I work at every company for 1 year and move on, and in that 1 year, I did 50,000,000 things" exaggerator. This is the guy/gal that has a list of previous employment that reads like an encyclopedia. 9 months here. 8 months there. 1 year here. 11 months there. This means you can't hold a job, or you are a unloyal b****face (which is fine to look out for yourself, but don't let your past employment spell this out in big bold letters), because I'll take a chance on someone that might be more loyal out of the box. Oh, and somehow, during their short little stint at the company, they somehow accomplished 5 years worth of work/projects...which again...no, they didn't.

 

5) The "10 Pound Resume" dickface. If I need to work out with Rock in order to lift your stupid resume, you aren't working here. There is some information you do not need to include...such as where you worked 20 years ago. If there is a need for me to go that far back in your employment history, I'll ask for it...but if it's going to make you're resume more than 2 pages, just stop.

 

6) The "MVP Award" Whoremonger. A.K.A: I was a superstar MVP employee at all of my previous places of employment and won awards for being so awesome, yet I need a new job. Why? If you were so awesomely invaluable, why didn't they promote you to some position that paid you millions of dollars to assure that they kept your awesome services?

 

-----

 

If it's on your resume, it's open game. For example, if you claim you can type 90WPM, you might run into an interviewer like myself that says...ok, show me the money, Jerry. So if you printed it, you'd better be able to do it...and not only do it, but do it under pressure, such as in an interview.

 

I have many tips for resumes/interviews, but so much of this skill is in feeling out your interviewer...and figuring out what they like, and somehow talking about it.

 

For example, I got my first job in the IT industry because the interviewer found out, during the interview, that I played the game Quake online.

 

The people who put expert on their resume for a subject matter that they have maybe seen once or twice in their life. I had a person put expert in F5 load balancers. I asked them a basic F5 question about persistence, and I get the well I didn't actually install it. I just logged into the gui a few times. WTF. Really. You apply for a senior engineering position and every product you put on your resume is something you just maybe have logged into once or twice. Or people who are supposed networking people that can't explain the TCP 3 way handshake. How do you put stuff on your resume that you haven't the slightest idea how to install it, configure it, or work with it. I am sure this is the same across other industries.

 

Edited March 15, 2011 by southsideirish71

[Y2HH]

The people who put expert on their resume for a subject matter that they have maybe seen once or twice in their life. I had a person put expert in F5 load balancers. I asked them a basic F5 question about persistence, and I get the well I didn't actually install it. I just logged into the gui a few times. WTF. Really. You apply for a senior engineering position and every product you put on your resume is something you just maybe have logged into once or twice. Or people who are supposed networking people that can't explain the TCP 3 way handshake. How do you put stuff on your resume that you haven't the slightest idea how to install it, configure it, or work with it. I am sure this is the same across other industries.

 

My response: What kind of persistence, ssl? cookie? source?

 

Did I win?

[southsider2k5]

The job I REALLY wanted called my references, but I did not make the top three for an interview. oh well.

 

There is no tender way of saying this, but really make sure you are getting good references from the people you chose, because that is really rare.

[Disco72]

I think this is more often true for the latter. Cover letters can be useful, but they are not worth the cost and time it takes to read them. Especially with the volume of applications that are received today due to the internet. If you don't have the basic qualifications, you probably aren't getting an interview. If you get an interview because of a clever cover letter, you will most likely be weeded out during the interview process. The only bigger wastes of time that are commonly used are letters of recommendation (but these are mostly used for internships, college admission, etc, and not so much for actual jobs anymore).

 

I don't totally agree with you, but the first scan should always be qualifications for the job. I agree that nobody should advance just because of a good or clever cover letter if they don't have skills, knowledge, and ability to perform the job.

 

Like cover letters, a lot of recommendation letters are cookie cutter, but as someone who both writes them for people applying to jobs and school and reads applicants' letters, there are lots of subtleties in letters of recommendation. I've written pretty mediocre letters of recommendation that the person I was writing it for thought was great, but I'm sure the person reading them could tell that I was not exactly praising the applicant to the highest.

 

I guess I'm agreeing with SS2k5 that be sure you have good references because just because someone agrees to be a reference (or a letter writer) doesn't mean they'll sing your praises above anyone else's. I actually recently read a letter for someone applying for a PhD program that stated the person needed to learn to write better... don't you think that applicant would like to have that letter back? (As an aside, I always share the letter I write with the person who asks me to write it - I'm all for full disclosure).

[The Gooch]

I don't totally agree with you, but the first scan should always be qualifications for the job. I agree that nobody should advance just because of a good or clever cover letter if they don't have skills, knowledge, and ability to perform the job.

 

Like cover letters, a lot of recommendation letters are cookie cutter, but as someone who both writes them for people applying to jobs and school and reads applicants' letters, there are lots of subtleties in letters of recommendation. I've written pretty mediocre letters of recommendation that the person I was writing it for thought was great, but I'm sure the person reading them could tell that I was not exactly praising the applicant to the highest.

 

I guess I'm agreeing with SS2k5 that be sure you have good references because just because someone agrees to be a reference (or a letter writer) doesn't mean they'll sing your praises above anyone else's. I actually recently read a letter for someone applying for a PhD program that stated the person needed to learn to write better... don't you think that applicant would like to have that letter back? (As an aside, I always share the letter I write with the person who asks me to write it - I'm all for full disclosure).

 

I agree that you can find out important information from letter of recommendation, and I also agree with you about full disclosure. I just think calling a reference is much better than asking for a letter of recommendation.. Subjective information from a letter can be misinterpreted without a little prodding. I could find out much more about an applicant in a 5 minute reference interview, or even an email. Those in charge of selection are usually looking for some specific knowledge, skills, and abilities. Instead of a general letter of recommendation that may or may not tell you what you want to know, how about an email with specific questions or a prompt that you ask the applicant to give to their references and send back? This will get at what you really want to know. Make the last question just about additional comments about the applicant so that you will get some of the unique information about an applicant that you might find in some letters of rec.

 

I guess I probably should be more clear in what I have been trying to say. I do not think cover letters and letters of recommendation are useless. I do think that there are more efficient and productive methods to determine the best applicant(s).

[Disco72]

I agree that you can find out important information from letter of recommendation, and I also agree with you about full disclosure. I just think calling a reference is much better than asking for a letter of recommendation.. Subjective information from a letter can be misinterpreted without a little prodding. I could find out much more about an applicant in a 5 minute reference interview, or even an email. Those in charge of selection are usually looking for some specific knowledge, skills, and abilities. Instead of a general letter of recommendation that may or may not tell you what you want to know, how about an email with specific questions or a prompt that you ask the applicant to give to their references and send back? This will get at what you really want to know. Make the last question just about additional comments about the applicant so that you will get some of the unique information about an applicant that you might find in some letters of rec.

 

I guess I probably should be more clear in what I have been trying to say. I do not think cover letters and letters of recommendation are useless. I do think that there are more efficient and productive methods to determine the best applicant(s).

 

I don't think we're as far apart as it may seem. Mostly, I was trying to convey the importance of these things to those that may be applying for jobs or schools, especially getting good references (either letter writers or those that are contacted by the potential employer/school).

 

If I had to read them every day, I think I would be pretty sick of them too!

[Y2HH]

For the record, I've never included a single cover letter with any resume I've ever sent out...and it never affected me.

[BigSqwert]

For the record, I've never included a single cover letter with any resume I've ever sent out...and it never affected me.

You were asked to come in to interview for everything you've ever applied for?

[Y2HH]

You were asked to come in to interview for everything you've ever applied for?

 

I was. heh

[The Beast]

Feeling the heat of graduation coming and the desire to do something useful after graduation instead of just sitting on my ass, I figured I should research growing industries, jobs in the future and where the needs are at. So I entered keywords into Google and read through the search results.

 

The results of my search? Nothing too helpful - engineering and math/science still dominate the list. I searched again and more information arose that wasn't helpful at all. So I looked at my interests and abilities and determined that the following "fields," "jobs," and "Graduate Programs of Study" would apply to me:

 

Human Resources, Paralegal Studies, Marketing (not sales, but perhaps market research), School Counseling (Guidance Counseling), Public Relations (background of communications and journalism would help this, but if there is cold selling involved forget it), university jobs (such as being an admissions counselor while the grad school part of things is paid for) or sports information jobs. Having searched jobs in these categories, I found that sites like career builder and monster are pretty useless for entry-level positions.

 

Someone wiser than I said that I should start researching organizations, learning about their industry and looking into positions at the organization, but even in doing research, how does that lead to finding an interview when the jobs aren't matching my skills (communications)/interests?

 

Instead of just b****ing about it, I would be interested to know how soxtalkers would approach today's job search as a freshly minted college graduate. Also, what do you guys think about where the jobs will be in 2011-2013? I can read bls.gov and Google that question all day but I would rather hear from today's employees where they think the jobs will be and what kinds of industries recent college graduates should go into/get retraining or further education to get into?

Edited March 15, 2011 by MuckFinnesota

[The Gooch]

I don't think we're as far apart as it may seem. Mostly, I was trying to convey the importance of these things to those that may be applying for jobs or schools, especially getting good references (either letter writers or those that are contacted by the potential employer/school).

 

If I had to read them every day, I think I would be pretty sick of them too!

 

Yeah I definitely agree. Letters of rec seem to have the ability to do more damage to an applicant than vice versa. I actually enjoy reading some of the cover letters, as they can be quite interesting (I just don't think they assist with the selection process enough for the amount of time it takes to read them). However, if I have to read "I know that I would be a great asset to this organization one more time...

 

So I guess if I had a tip for writing cover letter it would be to be interesting, original, intelligent, and to proof read. Cater it to each organization. You are better off applying to 3 jobs in a day with well-written, unique cover letters then to apply to 10 jobs with a cookie cutter cover letter (and resume). I will mainly use a cover letter to determine if an applicant goes on in the hiring process when they are right on the edge of moving on. Before that, they are simply tools to eliminate applicants rather than assets that can get an applicant to the next stage.

[The Gooch]

Feeling the heat of graduation coming and the desire to do something useful after graduation instead of just sitting on my ass, I figured I should research growing industries, jobs in the future and where the needs are at. So I entered keywords into Google and read through the search results.

 

The results of my search? Nothing too helpful - engineering and math/science still dominate the list. I searched again and more information arose that wasn't helpful at all. So I looked at my interests and abilities and determined that the following "fields," "jobs," and "Graduate Programs of Study" would apply to me:

 

Human Resources, Paralegal Studies, Marketing (not sales, but perhaps market research), School Counseling (Guidance Counseling), Public Relations (background of communications and journalism would help this, but if there is cold selling involved forget it), university jobs (such as being an admissions counselor while the grad school part of things is paid for) or sports information jobs. Having searched jobs in these categories, I found that sites like career builder and monster are pretty useless for entry-level positions.

 

Someone wiser than I said that I should start researching organizations, learning about their industry and looking into positions at the organization, but even in doing research, how does that lead to finding an interview when the jobs aren't matching my skills (communications)/interests?

 

Instead of just b****ing about it, I would be interested to know how soxtalkers would approach today's job search as a freshly minted college graduate. Also, what do you guys think about where the jobs will be in 2011-2013? I can read bls.gov and Google that question all day but I would rather hear from today's employees where they think the jobs will be and what kinds of industries recent college graduates should go into/get retraining or further education to get into?

 

Honestly, networking is the best option. Go beyond job fairs and careerbuilder. Find a club or organization for a field that your interested in and join it. Ask friends or relatives for opening in the companies they work for and get a referral or a direct email to the person in charge of hiring if possible. Knowing someone in the organization and getting a referral is your best shot at getting an interview. Check out temp agencies to see if they are offering anything that matches your interests. Those temp jobs can often turn into full time gigs. Even taking an internship can turn into a job, or at very least it will give you more experience (which is vital as the market for entry level positions is still awful).

 

[Y2HH]

One of the biggest future industries will be in the security of information, networks, and telecommunications (Information Security). It's going to be more and more of a digital world in the future, and information security will be one of the biggest components of information technology, if not the most important.

 

This is what I happen to do now, and if anything, it's getting bigger and bigger...with everyone coming online, storing information online, and the growing number of devices that are attached to the Internet at all times (phones, tablets, pc's, tv's, etc.), security will be very important considering online finance will be the norm (it's still not the norm, but it will be).

[The Beast]

Honestly, networking is the best option. Go beyond job fairs and careerbuilder. Find a club or organization for a field that your interested in and join it. Ask friends or relatives for opening in the companies they work for and get a referral or a direct email to the person in charge of hiring if possible. Knowing someone in the organization and getting a referral is your best shot at getting an interview. Check out temp agencies to see if they are offering anything that matches your interests. Those temp jobs can often turn into full time gigs. Even taking an internship can turn into a job, or at very least it will give you more experience (which is vital as the market for entry level positions is still awful).

How do I get involved with something even if I am graduating this June? Is that where the grad school comes in? And what if internships in the "field" I am interested in require that I be a college student for credit?

 

Temp agencies aren't something that I thought of so I will be looking at those and following up with your other suggestions - thanks!

[The Gooch]

How do I get involved with something even if I am graduating this June? Is that where the grad school comes in? And what if internships in the "field" I am interested in require that I be a college student for credit?

 

Temp agencies aren't something that I thought of so I will be looking at those and following up with your other suggestions - thanks!

 

I would research your top 2 or 3 professions and just do a google search for local clubs/organizations. I am in grad school right now, and that is how I found out about the clubs that I have joined. One of them is actually holding their annual conference here in Chicago, which is lucky for me. The other one is local to Chicago and they have networking events every month or two, as well as guest speakers. I found a human resources internship through a referral by a classmate, and many of the job/internship opportunities that I had applied for I only knew about by attending events and talking to people. If you know anyone with a leadership position in an organization, using a reference from them for an opening in that organization can go a long way. As for internships, probably just avoid the ones that require college credit. Not all of them require college credit, but those that do I believe is a legal issue so there probably isn't much that can be gained there (unless someone can correct me on that, but I'm pretty sure it is a legal issue - at least for unpaid internships)

[nitetrain8601]

Good advice on the last page. I've found it utterly hard to even get an internship or temp job though. No one will look at me, even Best Buy. I think that's because I'm trying to jump into a field where I don't have work experience/certs, but I do have schooling in and will graduate in Feb of next year. What makes it worse is that friends with no experience in my field, who self taught and also did not receive formal schooling(also don't have certs) are finding IT jobs/CIS jobs. It stinks. =[

[StrangeSox]

I am a human resources intern and I spend a lot of time reviewing resumes. I see a lot of what you see and I agree with most of what you said. I might have limited experience, but have noticed a lot of what you are talking about. I actually saw a resume a few weeks back for an administrative position where the woman listed her karate achievements on her resume (example: 3rd place in tournament 2006). I don't know what she was going for there.

Dwight Shrute irl?

 

 

[bigruss]

Good advice on the last page. I've found it utterly hard to even get an internship or temp job though. No one will look at me, even Best Buy. I think that's because I'm trying to jump into a field where I don't have work experience/certs, but I do have schooling in and will graduate in Feb of next year. What makes it worse is that friends with no experience in my field, who self taught and also did not receive formal schooling(also don't have certs) are finding IT jobs/CIS jobs. It stinks. =[

What school do you attend? Im studying IS/IT through the college of business at UIllinois and I would get updates on internship opportunities all the time, there was a huge market for IT interns when I was looking for one last year. Even the company I will be interning for again is raising their IT interns from 6 to 14 for the upcoming summer.

 

The hardest part of IT though is finding a fit for what you are interested in, I know that personally I do not want to be a technician or programmer, I much prefer the business side of IT than the technical side. Many companies may look for interns in one of these fields, thus you have to make sure that the position you are going after is the same as what you want. So your friends may be more technical than you (not sure if true), and that may be what some companies are looking for, but not every one of the is.

[bigruss]

Honestly, networking is the best option. Go beyond job fairs and careerbuilder. Find a club or organization for a field that your interested in and join it. Ask friends or relatives for opening in the companies they work for and get a referral or a direct email to the person in charge of hiring if possible. Knowing someone in the organization and getting a referral is your best shot at getting an interview. Check out temp agencies to see if they are offering anything that matches your interests. Those temp jobs can often turn into full time gigs. Even taking an internship can turn into a job, or at very least it will give you more experience (which is vital as the market for entry level positions is still awful).

100% agreed.

 

Organizations give you a network of alumni that can help you, while providing resources to help build yourself and your resume. Most internships that I have seen are not just for extra work to be done for the company, but are an investment in you by the company. Almost every friend I have that has obtained an internship has walked away from it with at least a pitch to work for the company, if not a hard offer. The big 4 accounting firms basically guarantee a full time position to it's interns as long as they don't mess up terribly (they even hold get togethers at the end of the internship with all the interns present to tell them of their offers at some locations).

 

Also, for future interviews, organizations and internships give great material to draw from. When you are able to show in your answers that you have experience within areas of leadership, communication, teamwork, time management, etc while actually being able to pull specific real life examples. It also can give confidence to an interviewer that someone had faith in you earlier to elect you into a position or to assign you a project.