White Sox targeting Carl Crawford

[Jordan4life_2007]

Opening day payroll was #7 in baseball (with the note that the Dodgers were paying enough of Pierre's salary that in an honest sense we were #8).

 

Only 2 of the top 8 teams in MLB payroll made the playoffs.

 

Which should tell us something.

[Kalapse]

Opening day payroll was #7 in baseball (with the note that the Dodgers were paying enough of Pierre's salary that in an honest sense we were #8).

 

Only 2 of the top 8 teams in MLB payroll made the playoffs.

We got $8.5M from the Royals and Dodgers dropping us to 10th or 11th about even with the Twins.

[ScottyDo]

Which should tell us something.

It tells us that we should have done better with our farm system in the past, but that doesn't do anything for us now. Gotta spend in FA when your farm system sucks.

[bigruss]

It tells us that we should have done better with our farm system in the past, but that doesn't do anything for us now. Gotta spend in FA when your farm system sucks.

Because that philosophy has worked in the past.

[ScottyDo]

Because that philosophy has worked in the past.

Are you suggesting a rebuild or what? What players are we going to trade for valuable youngsters in that scenario? We've got Danks and....uhhhh..........

 

Anyway, you don't blow up a 2nd place team that was a few key injuries away from being VERY competitive for the division.

 

Sounds like we have a bunch of advocates for building a time machine.

[bigruss]

Are you suggesting a rebuild or what? What players are we going to trade for valuable youngsters in that scenario? We've got Danks and....uhhhh..........

 

Anyway, you don't blow up a 2nd place team that was a few key injuries away from being VERY competitive for the division.

 

Sounds like we have a bunch of advocates for building a time machine.

Wasn't saying that. I love how people just throw words into my mouth.

 

You trade some players like Buehrle, Quentin, etc. guys who cost to much for their production. With that open money you either trade those prospects you acquired for some legitimate younger and cheaper talent or move other pieces to acquire what you need.

 

Reinvest in the draft and in the minors, I'm talking about a complete overhaul of organizational philosophy in the minors in terms of teaching and development. Take ideas from the Twins, Phillies, Rockies, Rays, etc. and implement them in the new strategy. If that means hiring new scouts, new coaches, consultants, etc, then so be it. Invest in new facilities in Latin America and develop a presence there.

 

If the Sox are going to be competitive than they need to spend their money responsibly. They can afford very few mistakes right now because of their lack of depth, which is why the contracts of Teahen, Pierre, Quentin, etc will be under such high scrutiny. Spending $5 million or so on a player who isn't contributing much to the team is inexcusable with the limitations we have in payroll. The Sox cannot absorb the hit these contracts take, as witnessed by the large amount tied up in contracts next year. Yes, the large contracts are hurting us, but atleast those players are big time contributors. When your spending $5 million on a player than can be replaced fairly easily for atleast half the price you are making bad decisions.

[Milkman delivers]

We got $8.5M from the Royals and Dodgers dropping us to 10th or 11th about even with the Twins.

 

Which, as I said, puts us closer to the middle of the pack than the top of the league.

[Balta1701]

Which, as I said, puts us closer to the middle of the pack than the top of the league.

What kind of metric takes someone in the upper 27% and says "that's closer to 50% than to 1%"?

[LVSoxFan]

I'd like to see this team at full strength at least one more season before doing the blowup/rebuild.

 

But yeah, it's an old story but it's a true one--it seems this entire DECADE it's been: trade away talent for big names (but never enough of them) to mix in with the no-names and experiments-in-progress and... fail.

 

Ironically in 2005 we didn't have some huge Earth-shaking acquisition, just the opposite--a gamble on Pods and Dye. And a total gamble on Iguchi.

[Milkman delivers]

What kind of metric takes someone in the upper 27% and says "that's closer to 50% than to 1%"?

 

Hey Balta, I know you don't like to be wrong, but is 27 closer to 50 or 1? And where did you even get 27%? Wouldn't it be 33%, if you say they're 10th in the league?

[Balta1701]

Hey Balta, I know you don't like to be wrong, but is 27 closer to 50 or 1? And where did you even get 27%? Wouldn't it be 33%, if you say they're 10th in the league?

27% would be about where they are if they wound up 8th out of 30 teams.

 

It's also worth noting that if we're being rigorous about the fact that the Sox had money coming in from the Dodgers and Royals, the teams behind them didn't stay fixed during the season. Both teams behind the Sox subtracted from their early season payroll during the year, while the Sox added to it by trading for Jackson. The Angels shed some salary down the stretch (i.e. Fuentes), the Mariners shed a boatload of salary mid-season by dealing Lee. And it's also entirely possible that the teams behind the Sox had people chipping in for their players as well in ways that we don't know about.

[Kalapse]

27% would be about where they are if they wound up 8th out of 30 teams.

 

It's also worth noting that if we're being rigorous about the fact that the Sox had money coming in from the Dodgers and Royals, the teams behind them didn't stay fixed during the season. Both teams behind the Sox subtracted from their early season payroll during the year, while the Sox added to it by trading for Jackson. The Angels shed some salary down the stretch (i.e. Fuentes), the Mariners shed a boatload of salary mid-season by dealing Lee. And it's also entirely possible that the teams behind the Sox had people chipping in for their players as well in ways that we don't know about.

That Angels payroll is low, they're paying Matthews and Speier about $16M on top of that $104M, they dumped Fuentes' prorated $9M salary at the end of August but acquired Haren's $8.25M salary at the end of July, I'd say their payroll actually increased by the end of the season. The Mariners who don't really factor into the Sox's ranking did pay a portion of each player's salary that they dealt during the season including the $3.5M they paid of Silva's salary that wasn't included in the original total.

 

Payroll obligations are public and not all that hard to find, I'd say it's pretty accurate that the Sox were about 10th or 11th in baseball even if you want to factor in the I think ~$2.5M or so they added through trades during the season. The teams right around them (Giants, Twins, Dodgers, even the Cardinals) all added to their team payroll during the season as well.

[NorthSideSox72]

We will not get Carl Crawford, track record people. Kenny will make a trade: quentin, Floyd, (Teahen packaged w/ someone else).

Lineup will be:

J.Pierre LF

G. Beckham 2b

A. Rios CF

C. Quentin DH

A. Ramirez SS

A.J.P. C

D. Viciedo 1b

J. Danks RF

B. Morel

* if Quentin is still here*

Otherwise- andruw jones/ Mark Teahen

 

 

With this team, we need to pull the fences back to the Orginal distance, & raise the height to 12 feet high from the leftfield line to rightcenter, where we should jack the fence up to about 25 feet high. Two purpose: detour Minnesota & The Yankees.

So... who is Kenny getting for TCQ/Floyd then? And how is Quentin in the lineup if you have traded him?

 

[nitetrain8601]

Honestly, it will come back to haunt us in some sort of fashion this offseason, the Sox are so limited right now in payroll that the Peavy, Rios, and Jackson moves will be scrutinized heavily now that it is a distinct possibility that one of the fan favorites will be forced out due to their demands or current contract (Danks, Buehrle, etc.).

 

Meh, I could care less about fan favorites. I'm willing to pay if you're able to produce. Buehrle seems to be on a bit of a downside. Danks is going to want too much money for his production so you might as well trade him. Love AJ, but you are not producing. PK is the only guy you really can make a strong argument for. Even with him though he's older and is known to have a hip problem.

[knightni]

I wonder if filtering "Daniel Hudson" and having it come out "God Himself", would help at all...

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if filtering "Daniel Hudson" and having it come out "God Himself", would help at all...

 

The irony is that an argument like this is always going on at Soxtalk. One year his name is Kip Wells, another it is Chris Young, and another it is Brandon Allen. As time goes by, it always seems to come up Kenny.

[Milkman delivers]

27% would be about where they are if they wound up 8th out of 30 teams.

 

It's also worth noting that if we're being rigorous about the fact that the Sox had money coming in from the Dodgers and Royals, the teams behind them didn't stay fixed during the season. Both teams behind the Sox subtracted from their early season payroll during the year, while the Sox added to it by trading for Jackson. The Angels shed some salary down the stretch (i.e. Fuentes), the Mariners shed a boatload of salary mid-season by dealing Lee. And it's also entirely possible that the teams behind the Sox had people chipping in for their players as well in ways that we don't know about.

 

Except they didn't, as Kalapse said.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I'd rather the Sox re-sign Konerko and then see if they can dump off Peavy to the Brewers for Fielder.

[Balta1701]

I'd rather the Sox re-sign Konerko and then see if they can dump off Peavy to the Brewers for Fielder.

Why would the Brewers want Peavy's contract? They could bump that up a little bit and sign Fielder for it.

[gatnom]

The irony is that an argument like this is always going on at Soxtalk. One year his name is Kip Wells, another it is Chris Young, and another it is Brandon Allen. As time goes by, it always seems to come up Kenny.

 

In my opinion, the Hudson trade is different than those because it set in motion the necessity of trading one of Danks or Floyd in the off season because we have just about no money to spend anymore. All of our decent prospects have diminished value due to injuries or poor seasons, which means we have to trade something from our major league roster to get value back, and the only place on our major league roster where we have some semblance of depth is our starting pitching. You aren't getting much of anything for Buehrle because of his contract, and it might be bad to trade him if you decide Konerko and AJ aren't worth what they want to be paid. Nobody will trade for Peavy because of the combination of his contract, injuries, and performance. If we try to trade Jackson himself, we aren't going to get back as much as we gave up to the Diamondbacks, which defeats the whole purpose of trading him in the first place. We can't trade Sale yet. That leaves one of Floyd or Danks that has to go.

[Jordan4life_2007]

In my opinion, the Hudson trade is different than those because it set in motion the necessity of trading one of Danks or Floyd in the off season because we have just about no money to spend anymore. All of our decent prospects have diminished value due to injuries or poor seasons, which means we have to trade something from our major league roster to get value back, and the only place on our major league roster where we have some semblance of depth is our starting pitching. You aren't getting much of anything for Buehrle because of his contract, and it might be bad to trade him if you decide Konerko and AJ aren't worth what they want to be paid. Nobody will trade for Peavy because of the combination of his contract, injuries, and performance. If we try to trade Jackson himself, we aren't going to get back as much as we gave up to the Diamondbacks, which defeats the whole purpose of trading him in the first place. We can't trade Sale yet. That leaves one of Floyd or Danks that has to go.

 

Thank you! I can't believe some think we're upset about the trade because we think Hudson is the next Strasburg. But I'm sick of explaining myself. You did a fine job.

[witesoxfan]

The Sox took on $120M in new contracts in 2009.

 

And that $120 million was committed to 2 players over a 4-5 year stretch, which is roughly $20-30 million in payroll each season. The Sox payroll, if it is going to go up, is not going to go up by much.

[BearingPro]

I have a better chance of playing outfield with the WS and I have an artificial knee and hip

[joeynach]

In my opinion, the Hudson trade is different than those because it set in motion the necessity of trading one of Danks or Floyd in the off season because we have just about no money to spend anymore. All of our decent prospects have diminished value due to injuries or poor seasons, which means we have to trade something from our major league roster to get value back, and the only place on our major league roster where we have some semblance of depth is our starting pitching. You aren't getting much of anything for Buehrle because of his contract, and it might be bad to trade him if you decide Konerko and AJ aren't worth what they want to be paid. Nobody will trade for Peavy because of the combination of his contract, injuries, and performance. If we try to trade Jackson himself, we aren't going to get back as much as we gave up to the Diamondbacks, which defeats the whole purpose of trading him in the first place. We can't trade Sale yet. That leaves one of Floyd or Danks that has to go.

 

I think when the sox committed to pay Jackson something like $2M for the rest of 2010, $8.3M for 2011, and also committed $4M for 1 month of Manny to this payroll that our offseason was going to be very limited. I got the impression that that was our off season spending right there, instead of spending on the 2011 payroll the sox took a shot at 2010 bumped payroll in the 2nd half. That being said i expect the White Sox off season to be very quiet. Most likely AJ, PK, and Bobby are gone, its possible Putz and Vizquel come back because they are cheap. Your catcher is Castro and his $1.2M option, your 3B is Morel/Vizquel, your 1B is Viciedo, and your RF/DH combo is Quentin/Teahen. And with all that your Payroll is still about $95M.

 

 

[Buehrlesque]

I think when the sox committed to pay Jackson something like $2M for the rest of 2010, $8.3M for 2011, and also committed $4M for 1 month of Manny to this payroll that our offseason was going to be very limited. I got the impression that that was our off season spending right there, instead of spending on the 2011 payroll the sox took a shot at 2010 bumped payroll in the 2nd half. That being said i expect the White Sox off season to be very quiet. Most likely AJ, PK, and Bobby are gone, its possible Putz and Vizquel come back because they are cheap. Your catcher is Castro and his $1.2M option, your 3B is Morel/Vizquel, your 1B is Viciedo, and your RF/DH combo is Quentin/Teahen. And with all that your Payroll is still about $95M.

I think the Sox will be limited this offseason, but not that limited. Man, that's about as uninspiring a team as $95 million can possibly buy. Let's hope Kenny can make something more interesting than that happen.