A couple of insights on the Twins

[caulfield12]

The trouble was that they seemed to be waiting for the Yankees to hand them an opening as opposed to the Twins creating their own opportunities. Why wouldn't the Twins be thinking that after all that is what Chicago had provided them much of the year in virtually every big game they played. The Yankees are hardly the White Sox. They don't give teams those chances in the playoffs. The Yankee's have scored 8 runs in the later innings compared to 2 for the Twins. You don't need to look any farther then that. It is perfectly appropriate to challenge that culture of waiting patiently for the Yankees make a mistake. Teams that take that approach are not going to advance in the playoffs.

 

from startribune.com message board

 

 

I also read somewhere that the Twins have something approaching a sub .200 record after clinching their 6 AL Central division championships...so a lot of fingers are being pointed at Gardenhire now for letting the foot off the pedal and playing their Rochester roster instead of flying into the post-season with momentum. I don't think you'll ever again see the Twins having a clinching champagne celebration until they actually win another post-season series. And lots of questions why the Pohlad family didn't have the cajones to bring in Cliff Lee as their "proven" #1 starter when they were rolling in positive cash flow and the Rangers and Hicks were technically bankrupt.

 

Many Twins' fans also feel they have no leaders on the team (see 2005 Sox examples like Rowand, Everett, AJ and Crede)...that this has been something lacking on the team since Hunter left and arguably Puckett/Hrbek/Morris/Gladden/Gaetti, etc.

Edited October 8, 2010 by caulfield12

[The Ginger Kid]

it's a good point. we always praise the twins for the patience and ability to take advantage of the Sox miscues/missed opportunities. that's enough to win a division, not a WS.

[clyons]

I'll add a couple insights of my own:

 

1) They're the Yankees' b****es.

 

2) They're fun to watch (in the 1st week of October).

[chetkincaid]

I'll add a couple insights of my own:

 

1) They're the Yankees' b****es.

 

2) They're fun to watch (in the 1st week of October).

 

THIS!!

[Buehrlesque]

I'll say this: The Twins typical style of ball, at least what we see against the Sox, Royals, etc., is to get in a close game and then scrapping out runs late in the game to win, often taking advantage of mistakes. When the Sox or Royals are in a 3-3 tie in the 7th inning with the Twins, you just get that feel that the Sox/Royals won't score off the Twins' bullpen and the Twins will push a run across to win. These past two games against the Yankees it has been the exact opposite. The Twins come out of the gate with high intensity and take an early lead, but then fall flat in the late innings when the Yankees seem to score effortlessly off the Twins' bullpen or fatigued starter.

[kitekrazy]

The trouble was that they seemed to be waiting for the Yankees to hand them an opening as opposed to the Twins creating their own opportunities. Why wouldn't the Twins be thinking that after all that is what Chicago had provided them much of the year in virtually every big game they played. The Yankees are hardly the White Sox. They don't give teams those chances in the playoffs. The Yankee's have scored 8 runs in the later innings compared to 2 for the Twins. You don't need to look any farther then that. It is perfectly appropriate to challenge that culture of waiting patiently for the Yankees make a mistake. Teams that take that approach are not going to advance in the playoffs.

 

from startribune.com message board

 

 

I also read somewhere that the Twins have something approaching a sub .200 record after clinching their 6 AL Central division championships...so a lot of fingers are being pointed at Gardenhire now for letting the foot off the pedal and playing their Rochester roster instead of flying into the post-season with momentum. I don't think you'll ever again see the Twins having a clinching champagne celebration until they actually win another post-season series. And lots of questions why the Pohlad family didn't have the cajones to bring in Cliff Lee as their "proven" #1 starter when they were rolling in positive cash flow and the Rangers and Hicks were technically bankrupt.

 

Many Twins' fans also feel they have no leaders on the team (see 2005 Sox examples like Rowand, Everett, AJ and Crede)...that this has been something lacking on the team since Hunter left and arguably Puckett/Hrbek/Morris/Gladden/Gaetti, etc.

 

Too bad you didn't have a link to that board.

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if the ownership bought in that the current team was good enough to win it all.

 

They don't have a true ace. Great offensive numbers but they are in the bottom half of the league in HRs. Maybe you need those things more in the postseason.

 

There's a blog on there about Mauer. He's a sucker for inside pitches. That's what the Yankees gave him. That's why he's been ineffective.

 

The readers comments from the blogs would be identical to most Sox forums. Just replace Ron Gardenhire with Ozzie Guillen and you have recreated Soxtalk and WSI.

 

[MexSoxFan#1]

So I take it that we shouldn't emulate the Twins way of doing things then?

What would the Hawk say about this since he's the biggest Twins cheerleader?

[caulfield12]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb-275698

 

 

Funny column since it's poking fun at the Twins...but, indirectly at the AL Central teams like the Sox for getting run over 6 (almost 7) out of 9 years.

 

As Dick Allen says, it's pretty hard to be overconfident as an organization when you've won a total of two post-season series in 93 years! Of course, the corollary to that is the last 11 years for the White Sox have been comparatively great as we've put up seasons with 95 wins, 86, 99, 90, 89 and 88 victories.

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb-275698

 

 

Funny column since it's poking fun at the Twins...but, indirectly at the AL Central teams like the Sox for getting run over 6 (almost 7) out of 9 years.

 

As Dick Allen says, it's pretty hard to be overconfident as an organization when you've won a total of two post-season series in 93 years! Of course, the corollary to that is the last 11 years for the White Sox have been comparatively great as we've put up seasons with 95 wins, 86, 99, 90, 89 and 88 victories.

 

Three?

[Rooftop Shots]

Too bad you didn't have a link to that board.

 

Here's a link to one of their boards. Was curious if they are in the same range of disgustedness in their post seasons against the Bronx, as we are in the way play the Twins in the regular season!

 

Club twins / Twins Talk

 

[kitekrazy]

Here's a link to one of their boards. Was curious if they are in the same range of disgustedness in their post seasons against the Bronx, as we are in the way play the Twins in the regular season!

 

Club twins / Twins Talk

 

It will probably be child's play compared to what you would read from New Yawk fans if the Yankees don't win the World Series.

 

[caulfield12]

I guess a lot of the stories in the NY papers have been about the 2004 collapse against Boston and the fact that the Yankees have never advanced and won the World Series when they came in as the Wild Card.

 

Haha.

[kitekrazy]

I guess a lot of the stories in the NY papers have been about the 2004 collapse against Boston and the fact that the Yankees have never advanced and won the World Series when they came in as the Wild Card.

 

Haha.

 

I thought that would be the end of Torre but it wasn't.

 

[greg775]

I just don't see how our fear of the Twins could continue after this.

The Twins really are the laughingstock of baseball right now.

Swept by NY again??

Please.

If the White Sox are ever intimidated by these guys again and have the kind of record they had against the Twins this year, then even as an Ozzie/KW apologist I agree heads have to roll.

The Twins are a laughingstock because of their postseason flameouts. There's no other way to put it.

Too bad Twins. You got owned. Yes you owned us, but this has to be as painful as the Sox's pathetic effort against the Twins this year. Twins fans must be pissed/embarrassed. Or are they blaming the loss of Morneau which really is a copout.

Edited October 10, 2010 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

I just don't see how our fear of the Twins could continue after this.

The Twins really are the laughingstock of baseball right now.

Swept by NY again??

Please.

If the White Sox are ever intimidated by these guys again and have the kind of record they had against the Twins this year, then even as an Ozzie/KW apologist I agree heads have to roll.

The Twins are a laughingstock because of their postseason flameouts. There's no other way to put it.

Too bad Twins. You got owned. Yes you owned us, but this has to be as painful as the Sox's pathetic effort against the Twins this year. Twins fans must be pissed/embarrassed. Or are they blaming the loss of Morneau which really is a copout.

The Twins have been playing like this against the Yankees longer than they have been dominating the White Sox. I don't know why this sweep should be anything new or add any more insight. I think the Sox should wear Yankee uniforms when they play Minnesota next year. They'll kill them

Edited October 10, 2010 by Dick Allen

[kitekrazy]

I just don't see how our fear of the Twins could continue after this.

The Twins really are the laughingstock of baseball right now.

Swept by NY again??

Please.

If the White Sox are ever intimidated by these guys again and have the kind of record they had against the Twins this year, then even as an Ozzie/KW apologist I agree heads have to roll.

The Twins are a laughingstock because of their postseason flameouts. There's no other way to put it.

Too bad Twins. You got owned. Yes you owned us, but this has to be as painful as the Sox's pathetic effort against the Twins this year. Twins fans must be pissed/embarrassed. Or are they blaming the loss of Morneau which really is a copout.

 

You are playing the same game as the Twins fans. The fans are already firing the the ownership/manager, not gonna watch another game, no more season tickets.

Yes the Twins owned the Sox but so did the Royals, Tigers, Orioles, Indians and anyone close to .500. That's been the Sox MO this century. The only constant peice in that is Kenny has been the GM. The Sox have this bad habit of playing down to the competition. Throw in the pen not being able to get anyone out in most of August. Twins used the trade deadline to help fix theirs. If the Sox took care of the other business, they wouldn't wet the bed so much when it comes to a showdown with the Twins.

 

Besides the Twins beat a lot of team after the break. Baseball is full of streaks and that one couldn't last forever. They seem to peak too soon.

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/10...?page=1&c=y

 

Six ways to improve the Twins going into next season.

 

It will be interesting to see if KW takes a shot at Crain if they don't resign him...although he'd be overpaying based on 2010. Guerrier could become available, Rauch obviously as well.

 

Pavano might be gone if he asks for too much money (and more than 2 years, which he arguably might get from someone)...Hudson will undoubtedly be gone as well, and they're going to have to make a decision on JJ Hardy.

 

The writer's main idea was trying to deal Young and Slowey for Greinke. I think it would take more than that, personally. I don't think Danks (or Floyd) and Quentin would be enough, either.

 

 

[Benchwarmerjim]

Souhan has been trying to trade Delmon all season

I would try to package Kubel (I think he has a team option for 2011) and a pitcher for a strikeout pitcher. Liriano is all they have for starter who can go out and strike out 10 on a regular basis

the Twins also need a power RH bat.

[caulfield12]

Too bad you can't merge the Twins' offense with the White Sox starting pitching.

 

We have Peavy (theoretically), Jackson, Danks and Floyd who can all dominate games.

 

 

Obviously you feel Cuddyer is not that elite RH bat, the problem is who is it, then?

I could see the Twins going after Vladimir Guerrero as their primary DH, but that pushes Thome out.

 

It's tricky, since you don't know what you'll have in Morneau, the White Sox have the same issue with Peavy.

 

You certainly can't shed Kubel, Thome AND not know what you have in Morneau. That's a huge gamble. And can Thome be counted upon to be as effective again next year, it's doubtful.

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Too bad you can't merge the Twins' offense with the White Sox starting pitching.

 

We have Peavy (theoretically), Jackson, Danks and Floyd who can all dominate games.

 

 

Obviously you feel Cuddyer is not that elite RH bat, the problem is who is it, then?

I could see the Twins going after Vladimir Guerrero as their primary DH, but that pushes Thome out.

 

It's tricky, since you don't know what you'll have in Morneau, the White Sox have the same issue with Peavy.

 

You certainly can't shed Kubel, Thome AND not know what you have in Morneau. That's a huge gamble. And can Thome be counted upon to be as effective again next year, it's doubtful.

 

Danks had nice numbers but I think he and Floyd are now mental midgets.

 

[kitekrazy]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/10...?page=1&c=y

 

Six ways to improve the Twins going into next season.

 

It will be interesting to see if KW takes a shot at Crain if they don't resign him...although he'd be overpaying based on 2010. Guerrier could become available, Rauch obviously as well.

 

Pavano might be gone if he asks for too much money (and more than 2 years, which he arguably might get from someone)...Hudson will undoubtedly be gone as well, and they're going to have to make a decision on JJ Hardy.

 

The writer's main idea was trying to deal Young and Slowey for Greinke. I think it would take more than that, personally. I don't think Danks (or Floyd) and Quentin would be enough, either.

 

Interesting feedback from that article. Most of the fans can't get past complaining about Gardy.

I'm not sure Greinke is all that either. The Sox could take out the Twins if their GM started collecting players from the Royals so Kenny can't get any more of them. Too bad they didn't hold on to Santana.

Who knows what Kenny's resources are for next season.

 

[Balta1701]

Souhan has been trying to trade Delmon all season

I would try to package Kubel (I think he has a team option for 2011) and a pitcher for a strikeout pitcher. Liriano is all they have for starter who can go out and strike out 10 on a regular basis

the Twins also need a power RH bat.

Your team makes a specific point though of not wanting guys like Liriano at the back end of your rotation. Your staff trains guys to throw strikes and pitch to contact, up and down the organization. And frankly, it works.

 

I really like how their offense is set up with Mauer, Young, Morneau, Cuddyer, and Kubel. That's 5 guys in a row who can beat you, and it's balanced, esp. since Mauer hits both sides well.

 

The Twins problems aren't in the building of their team.

[clyons]

"Ron Gardenhire is one of the most important figures in one of the most successful franchises in sports."

 

I stopped reading that article right there. I don't care how broadly you define success, that's freakin' delusional.

 

 

[Benchwarmerjim]

Your team makes a specific point though of not wanting guys like Liriano at the back end of your rotation. Your staff trains guys to throw strikes and pitch to contact, up and down the organization. And frankly, it works.

 

I really like how their offense is set up with Mauer, Young, Morneau, Cuddyer, and Kubel. That's 5 guys in a row who can beat you, and it's balanced, esp. since Mauer hits both sides well.

 

The Twins problems aren't in the building of their team.

 

yeah, the strike throwing, contact pitching works in the regular season, but in the post season (I have come around on this) you need a strikeout, bust some knuckles, make people move thier feet type of pitcher and the Twins lack that and it show up against the Yanks. Yankees batters versus Twins pitching is going to be a mismatch because the Yanks are strike pitch mashers

 

To your second point, I think if the Twins flip Kubel for a RH bat, the lineup looks a little better. The Yanks killed the Twins LH bat heavy lineup with CC and Pettitte

[knightni]

Kubel for Quentin?