My Response to the Tea Party...thoughts?

[kapkomet]

I'm not actually sure where to start with this

 

 

a bong and a crack pipe?

[lostfan]

a bong and a crack pipe?

lol, the only thing I can say is that Caulfield apparently has a lot of free time and thinks a lot. A lot.

[caulfield12]

Of course, the main purpose of all this is to play Devil's Advocate...to force one to defend the idea of Federal government functions.

 

Obviously, we wouldn't do well without a Federal court system, checks and balances, Supreme Court, etc., no matter what our respective opinions of the individual decisions they've made over the last decade, dating back to the Gore decision in 2000.

 

I would love to believe the Tea Party is something other than dressed-up libertarianism with a racist bent because of Obama's presence in the White House....and I fear we will be hearing the phrase "starve the beast" hundreds of times over the next two years.

 

Well, whatever you say about the GOP, they've predicated their election strategy around simply saying no to all spending...even though this spending was obviously okay with them from 2001-2008. So they're to be applauded for that nakedly-obvious obstructionism which has not effectively been countered by Obama and his administration.

 

 

[caulfield12]

British treatment of indigenous people was pretty abhorrent no matter the continent.

 

Colonialism, in general, is terrible for existing populations. But you're hearkening back to the great days of the British Empire as some sort of glory period or situation to strive for. While simultaneously asking for all troops on foreign soil to be withdrawn. Your arguments are not only bad, they're self-contradicting.

 

edit: except your tea party=pity party line. The observation that it's really just pissed off typical conservatives is spot-on imo.

 

 

I was merely replying to Northside by providing a better example of comparison....as he took issue with my devolving into another Russia line.

 

One can only wonder how China and India will wield their newfound economic power and what will happen when political self-interest and natural resources accumulation and protection come into direct conflict around the world over the next half century. It seems pretty apparent we simply cannot continue our present level of military spending without destroying our social umbrella.

 

Of course my arguments are bad and indefensible...unfortunately, I think there's a 25% minority of Americans who might agree with them and agree that they should pay no taxes to Washington and that every function of government can be done more efficiently and cheaply at the local level. I think we already tried that experiment, it was called the Articles of Confederation and it was a complete debacle, starting with individual currencies printed by each of the colonies as well as zero coordination of state militias to protect against potentially overwhelming threats both from Europe and a few more aggressive Native American tribes.

Edited October 9, 2010 by caulfield12

[mr_genius]

a bong and a crack pipe?

 

haha

[caulfield12]

I would like someone to enumerate why they believe things will actually get better in the US over the next two years...assuming that House will turn over to the GOP and the Dems will lead by 1-2 in the Senate. Basically, NOTHING will happen over the following two years. There will be endless House hearings and investigations into Obama's citizenship, repealing or euthanizing the health care bill and vilifying illegal immigrants and Muslims. We can't get a NY/NJ tunnel, but you can be sure we will find the funds for a wall to protect us from Mexico.

 

In essence, we'll have wasted two more years that will put us further behind (China, India and Germany) because we'll eventually end up giving tax cuts to the top 2%, which will blow another $700,000,000 into the deficit, even though the deficit is supposedly our biggest problem all of a sudden, even though it was mysteriously wasn't for 8 years under Bush. The funny thing is that Obama will be blamed for obstructionism (and effectively) when he attempts to block the extension of the Bush tax cuts!

 

Basically, the best chance the Democrats have is Sarah Palin winning the nomination or running as the Tea Party candidate...or a Tea Party candidate like Ron Paul running as a 3rd party and siphoning off votes like Ross Perot did in 1992 (essentially electing Clinton with his 19.5%) or Ralph Nader did in 2000 (essentially changing the course of history completely by giving us Bush instead of Bore, I mean Gore).

 

 

[Texsox]

I remember all the talk of the "peace dividend" at the end of the Clinton administration and defense spending was headed for the 12-15% range versus 20-22%, but then 9/11 happened and Iraq....and the rest is history.

 

Of course, Japan and Germany both have had their periods of imperialism too. My Chinese students are still being taught to hate Japan because of something that happened almost 60 years ago.

 

 

The "Peace Dividend" was a Reagan era promise. Basically after we "won" the cold war we could reduce our military expenses.

[Texsox]

I would like someone to enumerate why they believe things will actually get better in the US over the next two years...

 

Because in the compromise comes a prudent course of action. Because by examining each item closely, the wheat is separated from the chaffe. That is why dictators, and other such single voice systems have stagnated or fell behind while the US has thrived.

[Balta1701]

The "Peace Dividend" was a Reagan era promise. Basically after we "won" the cold war we could reduce our military expenses.

And under secretary of defense Cheney, and the first few years of the Clinton administration, we did.

 

[Brian]

I'm not even sure what these Tea Party folks are. Are they Republicans? Are they Republicans trying to distance themselves from the Republican name?

 

The stuff I hear from them sounds like an SNL skit.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not even sure what these Tea Party folks are. Are they Republicans? Are they Republicans trying to distance themselves from the Republican name?

 

The stuff I hear from them sounds like an SNL skit.

The question of who they are and how they started are hotly debated here. There's not much question that they have at least some Republican and Libertarian streaks in them, and its equally sure that they are not highly centralized and therefore not very centered on a specific agenda. There's also not much question that as time has gone on, they've attracted a lot fo people who seem to simply hate Obama and the Dems.

 

The real debates seem to be about their origins, the co-opting that has appeared to take place, and what they really stand for.

 

[Texsox]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So any anti-Obama and anti-Dem folks are friends to the GOP. Now some friends you will stand proudly with and have your picture taken, the tea party folks seem to be forced to use the back door.

[Chisoxfn]

I would like someone to enumerate why they believe things will actually get better in the US over the next two years...assuming that House will turn over to the GOP and the Dems will lead by 1-2 in the Senate. Basically, NOTHING will happen over the following two years. There will be endless House hearings and investigations into Obama's citizenship, repealing or euthanizing the health care bill and vilifying illegal immigrants and Muslims. We can't get a NY/NJ tunnel, but you can be sure we will find the funds for a wall to protect us from Mexico.

 

In essence, we'll have wasted two more years that will put us further behind (China, India and Germany) because we'll eventually end up giving tax cuts to the top 2%, which will blow another $700,000,000 into the deficit, even though the deficit is supposedly our biggest problem all of a sudden, even though it was mysteriously wasn't for 8 years under Bush. The funny thing is that Obama will be blamed for obstructionism (and effectively) when he attempts to block the extension of the Bush tax cuts!

 

Basically, the best chance the Democrats have is Sarah Palin winning the nomination or running as the Tea Party candidate...or a Tea Party candidate like Ron Paul running as a 3rd party and siphoning off votes like Ross Perot did in 1992 (essentially electing Clinton with his 19.5%) or Ralph Nader did in 2000 (essentially changing the course of history completely by giving us Bush instead of Bore, I mean Gore).

Dude, have you been to India? They are light-years behind China, light years. I can't even comprehend how big of a dump the parts of India I have seen (and while in no way does that mean I've seen it all, but Mumbai and the surrounding areas is a decent population to make a decision on) and how s***ty the infastructure and overall technology is here.

 

China was pretty fascinating as it opened up my eyes a whole lot. In comparison, India has done the exact opposite. Just because they have a huge population doesn't mean anything. China has had a huge population forever and they are just finally industrializing and making its way onto the world fore-front and I'll give them credit. I'm curious to see where China is 5, 10, and 20 years from now.

 

[Balta1701]

Dude, have you been to India? They are light-years behind China, light years. I can't even comprehend how big of a dump the parts of India I have seen (and while in no way does that mean I've seen it all, but Mumbai and the surrounding areas is a decent population to make a decision on) and how s***ty the infastructure and overall technology is here.

 

China was pretty fascinating as it opened up my eyes a whole lot. In comparison, India has done the exact opposite. Just because they have a huge population doesn't mean anything. China has had a huge population forever and they are just finally industrializing and making its way onto the world fore-front and I'll give them credit. I'm curious to see where China is 5, 10, and 20 years from now.

I can't say I've been through India so don't argue with me on this one, but I am curious...have you been outside of the major cities in China? To the legitimate back-country areas?

[Chisoxfn]

I can't say I've been through India so don't argue with me on this one, but I am curious...have you been outside of the major cities in China? To the legitimate back-country areas?

I've been in some of the country areas and they are crapholes. But the infastruture in the cities is impressive and that is the start. India doesn't even have anything close to that. Honestly, you take the poorest crappiest place in America and it doesn't compare to the nice areas (outside of the few 5 star hotels in Mumbai) of Mumbai.

[Balta1701]

I've been in some of the country areas and they are crapholes. But the infastruture in the cities is impressive and that is the start. India doesn't even have anything close to that. Honestly, you take the poorest crappiest place in America and it doesn't compare to the nice areas (outside of the few 5 star hotels in Mumbai) of Mumbai.

Only was asking based on my trip to Xinjiang province a few years ago. Can still picture the people mining coal by hand, some of the crumbling houses, compared to the nearby new skyscraper construction and the "birthday of the communist party" celebration.

[NorthSideSox72]

I've been in some of the country areas and they are crapholes. But the infastruture in the cities is impressive and that is the start. India doesn't even have anything close to that. Honestly, you take the poorest crappiest place in America and it doesn't compare to the nice areas (outside of the few 5 star hotels in Mumbai) of Mumbai.

I have to disagree with this. When I was in Mumbai, some parts of town (the financial district, and Nariman Point) were actually pretty nice. Looked similar to a lot of European cities in terms of infrastructure. But then, there were large swaths of the city that were truly 3rd world.

 

I spent time in Mumbai, Delhi, Pune and Agra. The first three, which are cities with a lot of recent business growth, were studies in extremes. I remember looking from the roof of a hotel I stayed at in Pune, at two properties next to each other. One was a corporate building that was downright extravagant, complete with a marble f***ing driveway, leading to a modern glass and steel building. On the other side of the fence from that property, was an abject slum.