White Sox in win mode, not rebuild

[southsider2k5]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...ws&c_id=cws

 

Optimism clearly abounds when talking to the White Sox about the 2011 season and their chances for American League Central contention.

 

The only issue to figure out is which players will stand front and center as part of the active roster when Spring Training comes around. It's a very specific decision-making process to be followed, according to White Sox general manager Ken Williams.

 

Just don't invoke the "R" word, as in rebuilding, when talking about the future.

 

"Every year, I go through three different scenarios: Where we are currently, which right now, is kind of middle of the road," Williams said. "Yes, we have potential to be that notch above, but I have to look at where we are right now.

 

"You look at going out and adding the necessary pieces through free agency and through trades, where you think you can compete for a championship. After that, you take a look and say, 'Well, if we have to go the other way because of budgets or my pie-in-the-sky thinking, we aren't going to be able to afford it,' then what's the best young team we can put out there and start the process.

 

"It wouldn't be the typical rebuilding. We've worked hard over the years here to make sure we are never in a position for a total rebuilding kind of project."

 

Instead of rebuilding, view the White Sox plan for 2011 as retooling.

 

Yes, the White Sox starting rotation will be loaded with accomplished veterans such as John Danks, Mark Buehrle and a fully rehabbed Jake Peavy, to name a few. And Alex Rios will bring his 30-home run, 30-stolen-base potential back to anchor the outfield in center.

 

Don't discount the presence of rising young White Sox talent playing prominent roles, much as Williams tried to infuse into the 2009 starting lineup two seasons ago. The GM told MLB.com how Chris Sale, the team's top pick from the 2010 First-Year Player Draft and bullpen stalwart after his callup, will have a chance to earn a rotation spot in '11.

 

Brent Morel and his slick-fielding ways could be the man at third base. And Tyler Flowers still has a chance to break camp as the White Sox backstop. Those rookies will be aided by younger veterans such as second baseman Gordon Beckham and shortstop Alexei Ramirez.

 

"If you just look around the field, we have good young players under 30 years old that are some of the better players in the league," Williams said. "If you have to filter two or three young guys around that, position-player-wise and maybe someone in your bullpen, well then that's going to be called, I know how that works in Chicago, it's going to be called rebuilding.

 

"In our minds, it's still with the mindset of trying to win. Once you start using the 'R' word, you create a different kind of mindset. I think a part of what we've done here is making sure our players understand that whatever the composition of the team is, it's designed to win."

 

With that winning focus in mind, Williams and the organization have crucial decisions to make. Paul Konerko, the only captain Ozzie Guillen has ever had, and A.J. Pierzynski, one of the team's gritty leaders behind the plate, both enter free agency.

 

Williams and Guillen would like to keep these veterans in place, but it's too early for them to decide the team's financial wherewithal for 2011. As Williams explained above, whatever direction they take, it will be with the target of repeating '05's memorable championship campaign or at the very least '08's AL Central title in one of baseball's toughest divisions.

 

"When you win in the past, nothing you do if you don't reach the playoffs is important," White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper said. "It doesn't matter."

 

"Forget all the skills: we've shown fight this season," White Sox leadoff man Juan Pierre said. "When you show hustle and fight, it's a good sign. Young kids coming along and seeing the older guys still playing hard and giving it all they got, it's a good thing."

 

Contract issues

Free agents: Paul Konerko, 1B; A.J. Pierzynski, C; J.J. Putz, RHP; Mark Kotsay, 1B; Omar Vizquel, INF; Freddy Garcia, RHP; Andruw Jones, OF.

Eligible for arbitration: Bobby Jenks, RHP; John Danks, LHP; Carlos Quentin, OF; Tony Pena, RHP.

Player options: None.

Club options: Matt Thornton, LHP, $3 million; Ramon Castro, C, $1.2 million.

Non-tender possibilities: Jenks, Pena.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Nothing of note here. We're always in win now mode. We just don't win nearly enough.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

"view the White Sox plan for 2011 as retooling"

 

This doesn't mean he wants to land A-Rod, does it?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[LittleHurt05]

"view the White Sox plan for 2011 as retooling"

 

This doesn't mean he wants to land A-Rod, does it?

 

Nah, he's only 34. Thats the plan for 2015.

[elrockinMT]

Nothing of note here. We're always in win now mode. We just don't win nearly enough.

 

 

We have heard it all before for sure

[NorthSideSox72]

Nothing of note here. We're always in win now mode. We just don't win nearly enough.

Trivia question... since 2000 when KW took over, which teams in the AL have won more games than the Sox?

 

Which ones have gone to the playoffs more often?

 

There are some of course, but I think you'll find its not all that many.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Trivia question... since 2000 when KW took over, which teams in the AL have won more games than the Sox?

 

Which ones have gone to the playoffs more often?

 

There are some of course, but I think you'll find its not all that many.

 

You mean 2001 when KW took over? And yeah, caulfield likes to remind us plenty that we're in the top 5 or so in games won since then. Only numbers that matter for me are 2/10. Our playoff ratio in a division that doesn't feature the Yankees or Red Sox.

[Milkman delivers]

You mean 2001 when KW took over? And yeah, caulfield likes to remind us plenty that we're in the top 5 or so in games won since then. Only numbers that matter for me are 2/10. Our playoff ratio in a division that doesn't feature the Yankees or Red Sox.

 

We win just enough to look good record-wise, but never enough to make the postseason.

[Jordan4life_2007]

We win just enough to look good record-wise, but never enough to make the postseason.

 

And we always win just enough to ensure we won't get a top 10 draft pick. But like greg said, it's better to win as much as you possibly can, even if you have no chance at the playoffs.

[Real]

2009 version 2.0

 

How'd that work out for you, KenKen

 

Twins wrap this up easily in 2011 if we're starting guys like Castro/Flowers, Quentin, and Viciedo

[sircaffey]

You mean 2001 when KW took over? And yeah, caulfield likes to remind us plenty that we're in the top 5 or so in games won since then. Only numbers that matter for me are 2/10. Our playoff ratio in a division that doesn't feature the Yankees or Red Sox.

Technically he took over in 2000, but I'm in your boat. I don't look forward to the next 10 years of KW's reign.

[Jordan4life_2007]

2009 version 2.0

 

How'd that work out for you, KenKen

 

Twins wrap this up easily in 2011 if we're starting guys like Castro/Flowers, Quentin, and Viciedo

 

I honestly think you can stick a fork in Flowers. At least as far as our organization is concerned. They weren't willing to deal him for two months of Dunn because they thought highly of him.

[NorthSideSox72]

You mean 2001 when KW took over? And yeah, caulfield likes to remind us plenty that we're in the top 5 or so in games won since then. Only numbers that matter for me are 2/10. Our playoff ratio in a division that doesn't feature the Yankees or Red Sox.

 

It all matters.

 

1 championship - only, what, 3 other AL teams have that?

 

2 playoff appearances, or 3 if you count 2000 - how many there? Not sure, probably less than half.

 

Wins? Probably still top 5.

 

Years in contention late in the season? All but one that I recall, maybe two. Probably only a few teams there.

 

Any way you look at it, the idea that this organization hasn't been successful under KW is hilarious to me. Do I want more? Of course I do! But let's have some perspective here.

 

2009 version 2.0

 

How'd that work out for you, KenKen

 

Twins wrap this up easily in 2011 if we're starting guys like Castro/Flowers, Quentin, and Viciedo

 

LOL, yea, a 79 win season is the same as an 88 win season.

 

[LittleHurt05]

I honestly think you can stick a fork in Flowers. At least as far as our organization is concerned. They weren't willing to deal him for two months of Dunn because they thought highly of him.

 

I thought they wanted to trade Flowers but were unwilling to part with Viciedo?

[Greg Hibbard]

It all matters.

 

1 championship - only, what, 3 other AL teams have that?

 

Yes. LA Angels, Boston twice, New York, and if the winner this year is from the AL it will be 4. In other words, at least 24% of the rest of the league, perhaps 32%, are doing it as well in that department.

 

so 3 other teams did it, and of the 10 who haven't, how many are constructed with a payroll such that they can compete?

 

2 playoff appearances, or 3 if you count 2000 - how many there? Not sure, probably less than half.

 

I don't count 2000, because KW wasn't running the team. These teams have 2 or more since 2001:

 

Boston, New York, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Oakland, Seattle, LA Angels. So the Sox are among 8 teams out of 14. Ok...

 

 

Wins? Probably still top 5.

 

I think they're 6th, actually. Is 6 out of 14 something to be proud of?

 

Years in contention late in the season? All but one that I recall, maybe two. Probably only a few teams there.

 

Twins, Yanks, Red Sox, LA Angels, arguably the Blue Jays, arguably at least one other AL west team do it as often. Again, is being among 6 out of 14 really something we should be hanging our hat on?

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

I thought they wanted to trade Flowers but were unwilling to part with Viciedo?

 

This is true. KW's final offer from what I remember was Flowers/Jackson for Dunn.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It all matters.

 

1 championship - only, what, 3 other AL teams have that?

 

2 playoff appearances, or 3 if you count 2000 - how many there? Not sure, probably less than half.

 

Wins? Probably still top 5.

 

Years in contention late in the season? All but one that I recall, maybe two. Probably only a few teams there.

 

Any way you look at it, the idea that this organization hasn't been successful under KW is hilarious to me. Do I want more? Of course I do! But let's have some perspective here.

 

To each their own. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but you clearly have a group of fans (greg) that will forever be content with 2005. For me, 2005 raised the bar. I expect and want more because of 2005. 1 playoff appearance since then is unacceptable to me.

 

 

 

 

 

[lostfan]

LOL, yea, a 79 win season is the same as an 88 win season.

To be honest, the failure at the end of the season felt exactly the same, just a little later. 88 wins looks respectable at the end of the year but they went on a ridiculous hot streak (against mostly weak NL teams, excluding 2 vs. the Braves), and we knew some time in August that this team was done. Then once they were in fact done, they won a bunch of games that didn't matter.

 

Had we done anything against our division this might've turned out different and left more margin for error, but we blew it harder than I've ever seen a team blow it and covered it up with some feel-good wins at the end of the season. The only real difference I see between the 79 win season and the 88 season is that in 2011 we probably won't draft a Chris Sale.

[Balta1701]

in 2011 we probably won't draft a Chris Sale.

In what sense? If you're specific like "a guy who will come up to the bigs 1 month after being drafted" you're probably right, because that is pretty darn rare. If you're saying a guy who can be a legitimate contributor rapidly...you might be wrong. This is constantly talked about as a deep draft coming up next year; even though Sale fell to us, there's every reason to believe that there can be real talent available in the latter 1/2 of the first this year.

[lostfan]

In what sense? If you're specific like "a guy who will come up to the bigs 1 month after being drafted" you're probably right, because that is pretty darn rare. If you're saying a guy who can be a legitimate contributor rapidly...you might be wrong. This is constantly talked about as a deep draft coming up next year; even though Sale fell to us, there's every reason to believe that there can be real talent available in the latter 1/2 of the first this year.

I was just referring to a top 10 pick/potential franchise player although in hindsight when I wrote that I was thinking of Sale as a top 10 pick when he wasn't. My more general point was that we had a better season but only nominally and we don't even get the draft pick as consolation. I'm not one of the people who says "tank the season for draft position," but I think that's a valid thing to bring up when we're comparing what a difference of 9 wins means. It's like a few years ago when the Bears won some meaningless games at the end of the season and dropped down a couple slots in the draft - they would've taken Ryan Clady with that pick instead of Chris Williams. Them's the breaks though.

[joeynach]

2009 version 2.0

 

How'd that work out for you, KenKen

 

Twins wrap this up easily in 2011 if we're starting guys like Castro/Flowers, Quentin, and Viciedo

 

Im so sick of Twins getting by with B rate starting pitching like Slowey, Perkins and their prize FA acquisition Carl Pavano. Yeah we wont win if we play Castro/Flowers, Quentin, or Viciedo, but they can win with the epitome of average starting pitching, Nick Punto, Brendan Harris, etc. Garbage.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I was just referring to a top 10 pick/potential franchise player although in hindsight when I wrote that I was thinking of Sale as a top 10 pick when he wasn't. My more general point was that we had a better season but only nominally and we don't even get the draft pick as consolation. I'm not one of the people who says "tank the season for draft position," but I think that's a valid thing to bring up when we're comparing what a difference of 9 wins means. It's like a few years ago when the Bears won some meaningless games at the end of the season and dropped down a couple slots in the draft - they would've taken Ryan Clady with that pick instead of Chris Williams. Them's the breaks though.

 

Thank you. I want to slash my wrists when I hear, "Well, with everything that went wrong this year, we still won 88 games." "A little retooling and will be just fine". Just like after 2006. "Hey, our entire pitching staff fell apart and we still won 90 games." A full offseason of rest didn't help much in 2007.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Jordan4life

[witesoxfan]

Im so sick of Twins getting by with B rate starting pitching like Slowey, Perkins and their prize FA acquisition Carl Pavano. Yeah we wont win if we play Castro/Flowers, Quentin, or Viciedo, but they can win with the epitome of average starting pitching, Nick Punto, Brendan Harris, etc. Garbage.

 

The Twins organizational philosophy when it comes to starting pitchers is throw strikes, keep the ball down, and throw more strikes. It may produce "B rate starting pitching," but that B rate starting pitching has helped them win 6 division titles in 9 seasons. And, in case you were unaware, they didn't have any Punto's or Harris's in the lineup in the playoffs - their weakest hitter was probably Denard Span.

[NorthSideSox72]

To each their own. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but you clearly have a group of fans (greg) that will forever be content with 2005. For me, 2005 raised the bar. I expect and want more because of 2005. 1 playoff appearance since then is unacceptable to me.

 

Pretty sure I said in that post, I want more. I've also made clear in inumerable posts the specific things that pissed me off about this 2010 team - there was plenty to be mad about. I just want people to avoid hyperbole and jumping off a cliff over it.

 

Thank you. I want to slash my wrists when I hear, "Well, with everything that went wrong this year, we still won 88 games." "A little retooling and will be just fine". Just like after 2006. "Hey, our entire pitching staff fell apart and we still won 90 games." A full offseason of rest didn't help much in 2007.

 

2006-2007 is a good point, sort of, but let's see what the offseason brings. I'll say this for the 3rd time at least... how this team looks in April will depend mostly on money. If the team is allowed to increase payroll a little bit, then I think the "a little retooling and we will be fine" thing is pretty accurate. If it goes down, especially by a lot, then unless KW pulls about 4 rabbits out of his hat, 2011 will be a non-contending year.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Pretty sure I said in that post, I want more. I've also made clear in inumerable posts the specific things that pissed me off about this 2010 team - there was plenty to be mad about. I just want people to avoid hyperbole and jumping off a cliff over it.

 

 

 

2006-2007 is a good point, sort of, but let's see what the offseason brings. I'll say this for the 3rd time at least... how this team looks in April will depend mostly on money. If the team is allowed to increase payroll a little bit, then I think the "a little retooling and we will be fine" thing is pretty accurate. If it goes down, especially by a lot, then unless KW pulls about 4 rabbits out of his hat, 2011 will be a non-contending year.

 

Between the Teahen extension (he's an awful baseball player), going into the season with a deplorable DH combination and the Jackson/Hudson trade, I've lost all faith/confidence I once had in KW.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Jordan4life