White Sox in win mode, not rebuild

[greg775]

The only thing that was wrong with the Juan Pierre deal was that it was made with the intentions of having Juan Pierre leadoff, when in all reality, he should be hitting 9th. The White Sox gave up 2 borderline arms in Ely and Link.

 

I kind of agree with this. Bat him ninth and I wouldn't be so against him I guess. I wonder why I devalue a guy with 70 SBs so much. I just don't like him much.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I kind of agree with this. Bat him ninth and I wouldn't be so against him I guess. I wonder why I devalue a guy with 70 SBs so much. I just don't like him much.

 

You don't like him that much because he's not that good (and he wasn't on the '05 team). It's a damn shame that I had to pimp his .350 OBP like it was something special, because I didn't think there was a chance in hell he would sniff that number.

 

I see his final OBP was .341. And I still have to give him credit because I though anything over .330 would've been a miracle. His value this year came mostly from his stellar defense. Which was aided by a smaller ballpark.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Jordan4life

[NorthSideSox72]

I agree with your post except the bolded part. I think we are starting to see the fruits of better development. The problem is that we are not afforded the patience that other clubs might have because our pitching is built to WIN NOW. I think out of Morel, Beckham, Viciedo, Sale and Flowers we may have some really good players. I wish we could sit back and watch them develop without the constant pressure of lofty expectations.

 

A side opinion of mine is that Tank needs to be playing in the big leagues for good, I just don't know where.

I did say earlier, things are getting better in the minors, so I agree that things are improving. Last three drafts have been good. 2009's was wracked this season by injuries, but guys like Mitchell, Thompson and Phegley are still talented players. Still, the Sox system is not exactly stellar, even with the improvements.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I did say earlier, things are getting better in the minors, so I agree that things are improving. Last three drafts have been good. 2009's was wracked this season by injuries, but guys like Mitchell, Thompson and Phegley are still talented players. Still, the Sox system is not exactly stellar, even with the improvements.

I think there's a real chance the AA pitching staff this year could make it look a whole lot better.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think there's a real chance the AA pitching staff this year could make it look a whole lot better.

Probably.

 

If my projections are right, looks like a pitching staff for B-Ham of something like...

 

SP: Shirek

SP: Axelrod

SP: Doyle

SP: Griffith

SP: Sauer

***(I assume Leesman will be in AAA)

 

RP: Jones

RP: Bellamy

RP: Corley

RP: S. Rodriguez

RP: Remenowsky

RP: Santiago

 

Yeah, I'd say that will probably be a solid staff.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The only thing that was wrong with the Juan Pierre deal was that it was made with the intentions of having Juan Pierre leadoff, when in all reality, he should be hitting 9th. The White Sox gave up 2 borderline arms in Ely and Link.

IMO it's the money, especially the 2011 portion of that. I'm no f***ing genius, but I could have guaranteed you in December of 2009 that there would be better options than Juan Pierre on the FA market over the 2010-11 offseason for less money. The only silver lining is that the defense looked better than expected, the OBP was better than expected, and the SBs are there, so we may be able to package him with another bad deal for a bad contract that may be a better fit. As for the players we gave up, I'm glad Link and Ely went over there and got a shot at an MLB career. Both seemed like good guys who weren't going to get a chance at anything here.

[Balta1701]

IMO it's the money, especially the 2011 portion of that. I'm no f***ing genius, but I could have guaranteed you in December of 2009 that there would be better options than Juan Pierre on the FA market over the 2010-11 offseason for less money.

So now that we have the list of 2010-2011 FA's, who is a better option?

[bigruss]

So now that we have the list of 2010-2011 FA's, who is a better option?

Players that I'm seeing on the list that could outperform Pierre (not necessarily in the traditional leadoff way):

 

Crawford

Crisp

Damon

Kearns

Magglio Ordonez

[thedoctor]

what else is he going to say?

 

the last time the sox essentially declared they were rebuilding went over so well.

[LittleHurt05]

Players that I'm seeing on the list that could outperform Pierre (not necessarily in the traditional leadoff way):

 

Crawford

Crisp

Damon

Kearns

Magglio Ordonez

 

For an extra $12-15 million in 2011 of course

[bigruss]

For an extra $12-15 million in 2011 of course

I said these are the ones who could outperform Pierre.....

Edited October 14, 2010 by bigruss22

[DirtySox]

Probably.

 

If my projections are right, looks like a pitching staff for B-Ham of something like...

 

SP: Shirek

SP: Axelrod

SP: Doyle

SP: Griffith

SP: Sauer

***(I assume Leesman will be in AAA)

 

RP: Jones

RP: Bellamy

RP: Corley

RP: S. Rodriguez

RP: Remenowsky

RP: Santiago

 

Yeah, I'd say that will probably be a solid staff.

 

 

Why exactly does this pitching staff make the farm system look better? I see a bunch of fringe guys and bullpen arms. Not a single blue chip pitching prospect. I'm a fan of Santos Rodriguez, Remenowsky, and Griffith, but the names on this list are not even close to a good example of an improving farm system. With Hudson gone and Dayan losing his rookie status, I'd wager that the White Sox farm system is at the absolute bottom of the league, somewhere in the bottom 3 for certain.

Edited October 14, 2010 by DirtySox

[Jerksticks]

I too dislike Juan overall for some unknown reason. He did do what Juan Pierre does, so kudos. On his behalf I will say that he wore out pitchers probably more than anybody. How did he rank in pitches/AB? Fouled off pitches? Seems like he might be near the top of the league there; haha or sadly, maybe just the top of the Sox.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why exactly does this pitching staff make the farm system look better? I see a bunch of fringe guys and bullpen arms. Not a single blue chip pitching prospect. I'm a fan of Santos Rodriguez, Remenowsky, and Griffith, but the names on this list are not even close to a good example of an improving farm system. With Hudson gone and Dayan losing his rookie status, I'd wager that the White Sox farm system is at the absolute bottom of the league, somewhere in the bottom 3 for certain.

I think AA is an important step - usually seen as a big jump from A+, and the year that often shows who the real prospects are.

 

I consider everyone on that starting rotation as interesting. Shirek, last year before his injury, was looking like a guy who might be ready for a jump. Axelrod and Doyle are older, but still have been very successful and may turn into something. Griffith is still very talented and recovered nicely from his injury. Sauer is the only guy in the rotation who I would call weak, but he's not a guy I'd write off just yet. I agree that none of the 5 are "blue chip" in the sense of top 10 prospect at level for pitchers, but you have 4 arms that are all the types I'd say have a 25%+ chance of excelling at AA and becoming just that.

 

The bullpen looks downright filthy to me, in terms of how they will perform numbers-wise. Rem is older but intriguing, Jones is a very toolsy pitcher who bears watching, Bellamy is also a guy who looks likely to be a major leaguer. That's a decent field in the pen.

 

No one of those guys is Top 10 among AA pitchers going in, I'd say. But I'll make a wager with you - I'd bet at least one form the rotation and at least two from the pen will look like future major league serious contributors by the end of 2011. Few will actually reach the majors in 2011, but a number of them will look like 2012 deliveries.

 

[DirtySox]

I think AA is an important step - usually seen as a big jump from A+, and the year that often shows who the real prospects are.

 

I consider everyone on that starting rotation as interesting. Shirek, last year before his injury, was looking like a guy who might be ready for a jump. Axelrod and Doyle are older, but still have been very successful and may turn into something. Griffith is still very talented and recovered nicely from his injury. Sauer is the only guy in the rotation who I would call weak, but he's not a guy I'd write off just yet. I agree that none of the 5 are "blue chip" in the sense of top 10 prospect at level for pitchers, but you have 4 arms that are all the types I'd say have a 25%+ chance of excelling at AA and becoming just that.

 

The bullpen looks downright filthy to me, in terms of how they will perform numbers-wise. Rem is older but intriguing, Jones is a very toolsy pitcher who bears watching, Bellamy is also a guy who looks likely to be a major leaguer. That's a decent field in the pen.

 

No one of those guys is Top 10 among AA pitchers going in, I'd say. But I'll make a wager with you - I'd bet at least one form the rotation and at least two from the pen will look like future major league serious contributors by the end of 2011. Few will actually reach the majors in 2011, but a number of them will look like 2012 deliveries.

 

Fair enough. I have little faith in almost all of the SP in the rotation personally. I don't see nearly enough upside or track record in that bunch to indicate an improvement on the farm. Aside from Griffith (whose declining K rate is worrisome) I think we'd be lucky if any of the other 4 emerge as a back-end starter. I would agree on the bullpen though. I don't think much of Jones, but I do like Santos/Rem/Bellamy. Here's hoping Bellamy isn't a repeat of Drew O'Neil though.

Edited October 14, 2010 by DirtySox

[chw42]

Players that I'm seeing on the list that could outperform Pierre (not necessarily in the traditional leadoff way):

 

Crawford

Crisp

Damon

Kearns

Magglio Ordonez

 

I'd like to see Kearns on this team. He'd make a lot of sense financially.

 

Stick him in right field and DH Quentin. As a DH, Quentin would actually be a 2 WAR player.

Edited October 14, 2010 by chw42

[macsandz]

I'd like to see Kearns on this team. He'd make a lot of sense financially.

 

Stick him in right field and DH Quentin. As a DH, Quentin would actually be a 2 WAR player.

 

Kearns is a good call for the Sox:

 

1.125 OPS at the Cell in 2010.

[SoxAce]

I see his final OBP was .341. And I still have to give him credit because I though anything over .330 would've been a miracle. His value this year came mostly from his stellar defense. Which was aided by a smaller ballpark.

 

Thank god pitchers decided to make him a bean ball so many times to inflate that number. Could have been much worse this year.

 

I'd like to see Kearns on this team. He'd make a lot of sense financially.

 

Stick him in right field and DH Quentin. As a DH, Quentin would actually be a 2 WAR player.

 

I was pimpin him last off-season. Would love the guy.

Edited October 14, 2010 by J.Reedfan8

[joeynach]

I too dislike Juan overall for some unknown reason. He did do what Juan Pierre does, so kudos. On his behalf I will say that he wore out pitchers probably more than anybody. How did he rank in pitches/AB? Fouled off pitches? Seems like he might be near the top of the league there; haha or sadly, maybe just the top of the Sox.

 

The one thing I didnt like about Pierre this year was Ozzie's use of him. I can think of two things in particular. One being that as an aging veteran I think Ozzie needed to rest him a few more days. Before we even got to Sept I had a gut feeling that Pierre would begin to wear down a bit due to the immense load on his legs and body over the first 5 months, and I was right, he hit something like .232 in Sept. Second, I didnt like how Ozzie treated him like any other sox hitter. Meaning he never really realized oh wait this guy is incapable of hitting the ball to the warning track like everyone else did. That is why you would see LF for other teams playing shallow to take away his looping line drive. But Ozzie would still do dumb things for Pierre. Like with no outs and Alexi or whoever on 2B he would have Beckham bunt him over 3B with 1 out for Pierre. And Im asking why. How are you supposed to manufacture that run with a sac fly to a hitter that is incapable of hitting the ball out in even a little league park, he has no ability to hit a deep fly ball so why are you doing this. Those are my big grips with Pierre and the use of Pierre. Other than that he showed solid D, a decent OBP, and excellent capacity to steal bases. It was also nice to see a good base-runner out there, not Pods and his ability to get picked off anywhere.

[2nd_city_saint787]

i personally love juan, if the man could take a walk hed be an all star..... interesting stat, hes tied for 16th in the league in hits with derek jeter, who had 12 more at bats. that coupled with the base stealing im all for some JP.

[Jordan4life_2007]

i personally love juan, if the man could take a walk hed be an all star..... interesting stat, hes tied for 16th in the league in hits with derek jeter, who had 12 more at bats. that coupled with the base stealing im all for some JP.

 

Please don't ever put Juan Pierre in the same sentence as Derek Jeter ever again in your natural life.

[witesoxfan]

Derek Jeter and Juan Pierre both love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

[Quin]

Derek Jeter and Juan Pierre both played in the 2003 World Series.

[Balta1701]

Derek Jeter and Juan Pierre both played in the 2003 World Series.

Derek Jeter's team lost to Juan Pierre's team in the 2003 World Series.

[Buehrlesque]

Frankly I have no idea. Not because I can't figure out the Padres' needs...but because I don't know the Padres' financial straits. They had a good year on the field and shed a lot of salary last year, but they're also looking at losing the guy for 2 picks in 1 season.

FWIW Ken Rosenthal was on MLB Network this afternoon and said Padres ownership told him it was a forgone conclusion that AGon would be on the team for Opening Day 2011. Rosenthal said the Padres "would have to listen" if someone knocked them over, but doesn't think they'll deal him. Heath Bell on the other hand, could be available.