Colby Rasmus should be on the White Sox radar

[Jordan4life_2007]

I would definitely do Danks for Rasmus.

 

If we still had Hudson, I'd no doubt do it. But I don't believe in creating a major hole in one spot to fill another. I hope KW proves me wrong. But he's really f***ed this organization up with his chronic obsession with "going for it" every year while continuously coming up short.

[Fantl916]

If we still had Hudson, I'd no doubt do it. But I don't believe in creating a major hole in one spot to fill another. I hope KW proves me wrong. But he's really f***ed this organization up with his chronic obsession with "going for it" every year while continuously coming up short.

 

Im not so sure this would create a "gaping" hole. For one, it would save us from having to spend on a RF/DH type. And there are some decent SP's out there.

[Balta1701]

If we still had Hudson, I'd no doubt do it. But I don't believe in creating a major hole in one spot to fill another. I hope KW proves me wrong. But he's really f***ed this organization up with his chronic obsession with "going for it" every year while continuously coming up short.

Would you take that deal if Sale took over the rotation?

 

Look at it this way. Trading D1 saves maybe about $7-$8 mil in arbitration this year. Putting Rasmus in RF Fills: the Left hand power bat opening, moves Quentin permanently to DH so the DH spot is filled with a guy who at least gives you 25 HR and an .800 OPS if he's healthy (which really isn't that bad for DH's in the AL based on last year), and we've got those spots filled with $15-20 million to spend, or more. That's plenty of money to keep Konerko, sign a catcher, and find a closer.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Im not so sure this would create a "gaping" hole. For one, it would save us from having to spend on a RF/DH type. And there are some decent SP's out there.

 

Peavy is a health risk. Buehrle is a FA after next year. I think Jackson is gone either way. Floyd is solid. Sale? Who knows. And I don't want Freddy back. So yeah, I see a big hole in trading Danks. Maybe it's just me, but I'm looking beyond 2011.

 

Would you take that deal if Sale took over the rotation?

 

Look at it this way. Trading D1 saves maybe about $7-$8 mil in arbitration this year. Putting Rasmus in RF Fills: the Left hand power bat opening, moves Quentin permanently to DH so the DH spot is filled with a guy who at least gives you 25 HR and an .800 OPS if he's healthy (which really isn't that bad for DH's in the AL based on last year), and we've got those spots filled with $15-20 million to spend, or more. That's plenty of money to keep Konerko, sign a catcher, and find a closer.

 

I'm not confident that Sale will cut it as a starter. If he does, that changes things quite a bit.

[sircaffey]

I would hope that the Sox don't let Sale go more than 120 IP next year, at the most.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I would hope that the Sox don't let Sale go more than 120 IP next year, at the most.

Why? He pitched 140 in 2009 and 136 in 2010, including 20+ IP at the big league level.

 

If you just follow the Verducci Effect rule, he's ok for 165-170 next year.

[Balta1701]

I'm not confident that Sale will cut it as a starter. If he does, that changes things quite a bit.

The only way we're going to figure that out is to try him as a starter in the bigs for a while.

[sircaffey]

Why? He pitched 140 in 2009 and 136 in 2010, including 20+ IP at the big league level.

 

If you just follow the Verducci Effect rule, he's ok for 165-170 next year.

I think that would be a grave mistake given college IP are much different than pro IP, his unorthodox motion, and him being under-developed physically. Not to mention, him being the Sox' only legitimate SP prospect. There's no good reason to have him pitch near 170 innings. The Sox should do exactly what the Nats planned on doing with Strasburg before he got injured.

[Balta1701]

I think that would be a grave mistake given college IP are much different than pro IP, his unorthodox motion, and him being under-developed physically. Not to mention, him being the Sox' only legitimate SP prospect. There's no good reason to have him pitch near 170 innings. The Sox should do exactly what the Nats planned on doing with Strasburg before he got injured.

Strasburg never pitched more than 109 innings in college, but he was put in the AFL last year in the Fall last year to push him up to about 128. (the Sox do not have Sale in the AFL). But, he was on pace to go for around 155 innings this year if he hadn't gotten hurt. He was exactly on Verducci Effect pace.

 

Sale's pitched more innings each of the last 2 years than Stras ever did.

[macsandz]

Would you take that deal if Sale took over the rotation?

 

Look at it this way. Trading D1 saves maybe about $7-$8 mil in arbitration this year. Putting Rasmus in RF Fills: the Left hand power bat opening, moves Quentin permanently to DH so the DH spot is filled with a guy who at least gives you 25 HR and an .800 OPS if he's healthy (which really isn't that bad for DH's in the AL based on last year), and we've got those spots filled with $15-20 million to spend, or more. That's plenty of money to keep Konerko, sign a catcher, and find a closer.

 

Exactly what I was suggesting. I think Kenny is really gonna dangle D1 this offseason, and he should. An NL team would be nuts to not make a substantial move for him. He'd be a dominant SP in the NL.

As I see it if the the Sox want to truly make a move in this division going forward there are a few things that must happen this winter:

 

1) Trade a rotation SP for talented, young and controlled OF talent. (Ideally lefty hitting power - Colby Rasmus / Travis Snider mold)

2) Do NOT resign Konerko.

3) Fortify the bullpen even further with available funds. (Soriano would be my target).

[sircaffey]

Strasburg never pitched more than 109 innings in college, but he was put in the AFL last year in the Fall last year to push him up to about 128. (the Sox do not have Sale in the AFL). But, he was on pace to go for around 155 innings this year if he hadn't gotten hurt. He was exactly on Verducci Effect pace.

 

Sale's pitched more innings each of the last 2 years than Stras ever did.

I hate theories like the Verducci effect. These theories that try to blanket all different players. Sale comes into his pro career with legitimate durability concerns due to motion and a POW-like body. If you want to ignore the obvious durability concerns with Sale and both increase his workload and the days of rest between GS (6 in college to 4-5 in the pros), that's fine. I just hope the Sox handle him a little more carefully.

Edited October 16, 2010 by sircaffey

[Jack Parkman]

I hate theories like the Verducci effect. These theories that try to blanket all different players. Sale comes into his pro career with legitimate durability concerns due to motion and a POW-like body. If you want to ignore the obvious durability concerns with Sale and both increase his workload and the days of rest between GS (6 in college to 4-5 in the pros), that's fine. I just hope the Sox handle him a little more carefully.

I'm of the opinion that Sale's mechanics are so bad he's going to blow out his arm no matter what, you're delaying it by putting him in the bullpen. Personally, I'd stick him in the minors,(starting) let him rack up gaudy numbers, and trade him in the 2011-2012 offseason for a massive piece, and watch him blow out his arm the following season. If the Sox are going to keep him, their best choice is to make him a closer, because when he gets to his arbitration years, he'll blow his arm out then, thus keeping the cost of him being on the roster down. If you're going to trade Danks, you have to get a MLB ready starter back, and he is the one who replaces Danks in the rotation, not Sale.

 

[beck72]

I'm of the opinion that Sale's mechanics are so bad he's going to blow out his arm no matter what, you're delaying it by putting him in the bullpen. Personally, I'd stick him in the minors,(starting) let him rack up gaudy numbers, and trade him in the 2011-2012 offseason for a massive piece, and watch him blow out his arm the following season. If the Sox are going to keep him, their best choice is to make him a closer, because when he gets to his arbitration years, he'll blow his arm out then, thus keeping the cost of him being on the roster down. If you're going to trade Danks, you have to get a MLB ready starter back, and he is the one who replaces Danks in the rotation, not Sale.

Nice post. I wouldn't put Sale into the rotation for 2011. I like him in the bullpen, along with re-signing Putz to close, and Thornton, Santos, Infante. The sox could use another solid option with letting Jenks go.

 

Danks should be the workhorse to replace Mark. A guy to build around not trade. The sox should give him similar cash that Mark is getting after 2011. Like you said, Sale in the 2011-12 offseason could be trade bait with his questions about being a SP [durability, 3 + pitches, etc].

 

Viciedo should be part of package to net the sox that LH young OF bat. His defense at 1b is even a liability. Yet overall, he's got good value. The sox just can't give away runs with poor defense. And the sox have 2 DH's in Dayan and Quentin. I wouldn't be surprised if both are gone, esp. if Paulie re signs.

[witesoxfan]

That entire theory is flawed. If Aroldis Chapman proves he can't be anything more than a middle reliever, are you going to trade for him assuming he is a starting pitcher? Along the same lines, if Chris Sale proves he can't be anything more than a middle reliever, are you going to trade for him assuming he is a starting pitcher? Is Aroldis Chapman a better reliever than Chris Sale?

 

As a GM, the answers to those questions are no, no and yes (and yes, it's because the former can throw 104). If you do not start Chris Sale, whether in AA, AAA, or MLB, you are crippling his value.

 

Just an FYI...pitching as a reliever can be just as hard, if not harder, on an arm than starting can. Just because you don't work as many "official" innings doesn't mean you don't throw as many pitches...those guys are warming up all the time.

 

If the Sox believe that Sale has major league talent, they'd be very, very stupid not to try him as a starter. If he fails, you then know he can atleast be a great reliever. If he succeeds, then you have a great starting pitching prospect.

[Balta1701]

That entire theory is flawed. If Aroldis Chapman proves he can't be anything more than a middle reliever, are you going to trade for him assuming he is a starting pitcher? Along the same lines, if Chris Sale proves he can't be anything more than a middle reliever, are you going to trade for him assuming he is a starting pitcher? Is Aroldis Chapman a better reliever than Chris Sale?

Bah, the Chapman comparison doesn't work here because of contract issues. Chapman almost has to be a starter. He's getting paid $30 million over 5 years.

[Leonard Zelig]

Peavy is a health risk. Buehrle is a FA after next year. I think Jackson is gone either way. Floyd is solid. Sale? Who knows. And I don't want Freddy back. So yeah, I see a big hole in trading Danks. Maybe it's just me, but I'm looking beyond 2011.

 

You must be pretty confident that Danks will sign an extension? Because if he doesn't, there's a good chance won't be here past 2011.

[macsandz]

You must be pretty confident that Danks will sign an extension? Because if he doesn't, there's a good chance won't be here past 2011.

 

EXACTLY ^

[2nd_city_saint787]

i agree with the majority here Danks is our best trading piece right now and as much as id love to see him stay it make sense to trade him if you can get a starting bat in return. Even if we do resign PK the sox still need another big time bat like a Rasmus or Fielder. I'd be really happy if one of the following 3 happened, Id either 1. resign PK and trade DAnks for a lefty bat 2.sign Dunn and trade Danks for a RH bat or 3. Sign Jayson Werth and trade Danks for a lefty bat. Resign Freddy or another serviceable 5th starter to start the year as the 5th starter while Sale starts in the minors, even though just like Mike Leake did for Cincy I believe Sale could start right away but itd be nice to have the insurance of a freddy garcia.

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

You must be pretty confident that Danks will sign an extension? Because if he doesn't, there's a good chance won't be here past 2011.

I don't understand trading an ace- like young pitcher who you still have control of for 2 years, unless you get something very similar or even better back and it better be pitching. I could understand trading him next offseason when he will have a year left and the Sox came to the conclusion he was going to test the market and didn't like their chances. You still would get an excellent return. Pitching wins. Teams that dump their best pitchers, usually don't do very well in the standings. Trading him now because you are scared he may not re-sign is small market mentality. Let the Pirates think like that. If the object is winning, worry about Danks contract at least another year.

[Leonard Zelig]

I don't understand trading an ace- like young pitcher who you still have control of for 2 years, unless you get something very similar or even better back and it better be pitching. I could understand trading him next offseason when he will have a year left and the Sox came to the conclusion he was going to test the market and didn't like their chances. You still would get an excellent return. Pitching wins. Teams that dump their best pitchers, usually don't do very well in the standings. Trading him now because you are scared he may not re-sign is small market mentality. Let the Pirates think like that. If the object is winning, worry about Danks contract at least another year.

 

I didn't say anything about trading him this year. I said he may not be around after 2011. Obviously a lot depends on what position the Sox are in next summer.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I don't understand trading an ace- like young pitcher who you still have control of for 2 years, unless you get something very similar or even better back and it better be pitching. I could understand trading him next offseason when he will have a year left and the Sox came to the conclusion he was going to test the market and didn't like their chances. You still would get an excellent return. Pitching wins. Teams that dump their best pitchers, usually don't do very well in the standings. Trading him now because you are scared he may not re-sign is small market mentality. Let the Pirates think like that. If the object is winning, worry about Danks contract at least another year.

 

 

 

IMO the sox need 2 big bats this offseason and theyre not gonna be able to sign 2 of em i believe and SP is really the only place we can trade from and danks makes the most sense since he may not be here long term.

 

unless youre fine with Dayan being on of those big bats we need to make a trade IMO

[southsider2k5]

I don't understand trading an ace- like young pitcher who you still have control of for 2 years, unless you get something very similar or even better back and it better be pitching. I could understand trading him next offseason when he will have a year left and the Sox came to the conclusion he was going to test the market and didn't like their chances. You still would get an excellent return. Pitching wins. Teams that dump their best pitchers, usually don't do very well in the standings. Trading him now because you are scared he may not re-sign is small market mentality. Let the Pirates think like that. If the object is winning, worry about Danks contract at least another year.

 

You are the one who keeps saying we have no money to spend... Isn't it obvious?

[Jordan4life_2007]

You must be pretty confident that Danks will sign an extension? Because if he doesn't, there's a good chance won't be here past 2011.

 

I'm not confident. But with the slump KW is in, I'm not sure he wouldn't botch a potential Danks trade in which we got back below market value. And he's under control through 2012. So it's not like he can just bolt after '11.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm not confident. But with the slump KW is in, I'm not sure he wouldn't botch a potential Danks trade in which we got back below market value. And he's under control through 2012. So it's not like he can just bolt after '11.

 

 

 

uh what slump???

[beck72]

Kenny already traded his best young prospect SP in Hudson. I don't see how the Sox trade John Danks and improve for 2011 and beyond unless some team wildly overpays--such as a young LH bat and a SP who could fit in the 2011 rotation. But I don't see many teams that could offer that deal.