Colby Rasmus should be on the White Sox radar

[southsider2k5]

Well if Mr. #3 starter thinks he's too good to sign an extension then what would you suggest we do? He's still under control for two more years and this would be the best time to trade him if you choose to go that route. Give me a 24-year old athletic, multiple tool CF over a #3 (though a really good one) any day.

 

If the choice is that, or a couple of draft picks, I take the CFer on the verge.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If the choice is that, or a couple of draft picks, I take the CFer on the verge.

 

This is the first time we've agreed on something since 2006.

[Dick Allen]

If the choice is that, or a couple of draft picks, I take the CFer on the verge.

But you are forgetting the 2 years of Danks's services when he should be coming towards a peek. This is not a guy to trade. How many ace-like pitchers get traded and what comes back is even better?

 

If the White Sox are in a win mode, dealing perhaps their best starting pitcher is dumb.

[dmbjeff]

And you just made my point. Trading Danks, as many posts in this thread suggest as PART of a package for Colby Rasmus, isn't going to make the Sox better. They will be worse. Their payroll may be a few dollars less.

 

Well Danks should be traded straight up for a talented player like Rasmus alone. The need for additional pieces is not needed or otherwise we shouldn;t deal him. Another possibility is to trade him for top prospects which isn't a KW move or something I would personally do unless that top prospect was litterally a top prospect in all of baseball.

[Leonard Zelig]

It's funny, Danks has been referred to as a #3 and also as Ace-like in this thread. I wonder how other GMs/organizations view him.

 

My guess is he is somewhere in between the two.

[bigruss]

But you are forgetting the 2 years of Danks's services when he should be coming towards a peek. This is not a guy to trade. How many ace-like pitchers get traded and what comes back is even better?

 

If the White Sox are in a win mode, dealing perhaps their best starting pitcher is dumb.

Erik Bedard for one, what a lopsided trade.

[Balta1701]

It's funny, Danks has been referred to as a #3 and also as Ace-like in this thread. I wonder how other GMs/organizations view him.

 

My guess is he is somewhere in between the two.

A really good #2, who has the talent to be a #1 but hasn't had the consistency?

 

Yeah, that fits all those descriptions.

[southsider2k5]

But you are forgetting the 2 years of Danks's services when he should be coming towards a peek. This is not a guy to trade. How many ace-like pitchers get traded and what comes back is even better?

 

If the White Sox are in a win mode, dealing perhaps their best starting pitcher is dumb.

 

I am not forgetting that. As a matter of a fact that is exactly why he is at his peak value to other clubs right now. Every bit of time that goes by lessens that value, because the team that trades for him will receive less time of Danks. You have to admit that starting pitching is the biggest strength of this team right now. It is also the thing that teams will pay the most to get. Its also dumb to be in win-now mode when you aren't looking for a way to get quality players to fill your biggest holes.

[macsandz]

I am not forgetting that. As a matter of a fact that is exactly why he is at his peak value to other clubs right now. Every bit of time that goes by lessens that value, because the team that trades for him will receive less time of Danks. You have to admit that starting pitching is the biggest strength of this team right now. It is also the thing that teams will pay the most to get. Its also dumb to be in win-now mode when you aren't looking for a way to get quality players to fill your biggest holes.

 

Good stuff right there.^

[Dick Allen]

I am not forgetting that. As a matter of a fact that is exactly why he is at his peak value to other clubs right now. Every bit of time that goes by lessens that value, because the team that trades for him will receive less time of Danks. You have to admit that starting pitching is the biggest strength of this team right now. It is also the thing that teams will pay the most to get. Its also dumb to be in win-now mode when you aren't looking for a way to get quality players to fill your biggest holes.

 

If it is the strenth of the team, why do you look to weaken it? I'm not sold on the other parts of the rotation. Danks is at his peak value to the White Sox and that is what should matter most.

Buerhle finished the season very average and has been average at best the second half of seasons recenty. Peavy is a question mark. Freddy Garcia may or may not come back and really do you think its a lock he can give you what he gave you in 2010? Floyd has had 2 very similar seasons when he's only been above mediocre for 2 of 6 months and finished hurt. Edwin Jackson seems like he could be pretty good. He also could be pretty bad. The strength of the starting rotation is John Danks. He's the surest thing. Sale was great in shorts spurts. Is he ready for a full time starter role? Its not an obvious yes. Teams trying to win don't trade away their best players. Can you name any teams that traded away their best starter and got better the next season? Pitching and defense is the more boring path to baseball, but it is the winning path. When the Sox won the WS, they lost their best hitter for most of the year and he was a shell of his former self when he did play but really it was home run or bust. He was replaced with a pretty average guy. Frank Thomas and Carl Everett. Everett was replaced by a guy who had a monster year in 2006. In fact the offense was better in 2006 than 2005 but the pitching fell apart and the team wasn't as good. Trading John Danks because he's worth more now than he may be worth in a year or 2 is pretty sad and so Pittsburgh Pirates.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

If it is the strenth of the team, why do you look to weaken it? I'm not sold on the other parts of the rotation.

Buerhle finished the season very average and has been average at best the second half of seasons recenty. Peavy is a question mark. Freddy Garcia may or may not come back and really do you think its a lock he can give you what he gave you in 2010? Floyd has had 2 very similar seasons when he's only been above mediocre for 2 of 6 months and finished hurt. Edwin Jackson seems like he could be pretty good. He also could be pretty bad. The strength of the starting rotation is John Danks. He's the surest thing. Sale was great in shorts spurts. Is he ready for a full time starter role? Its not an obvious yes. Teams trying to win don't trade away their best players. Can you name any teams that traded away their best starter and got better the next season? Pitching and defense is the more boring path to baseball, but it is the winning path. When the Sox won the WS, they lost their best hitter for most of the year and he was a shell of his former self when he did play but really it was home run or bust. He was replaced with a pretty average guy. Frank Thomas and Carl Everett.

 

You weaken it because you can make the team better overall, better than if you traded anyone else because of the haul you would get for him. And I know the whole point of this is so that when someone gets dealt, you still get to call the team cheap as usual.

[Quin]

A really good #2, who has the talent to be a #1 but hasn't had the consistency?

 

Yeah, that fits all those descriptions.

 

+1

[Dick Allen]

Erik Bedard for one, what a lopsided trade.

Only because of injury. If Danks is going to get hurt, but all means, trade him.

[bigruss]

Only because of injury. If Danks is going to get hurt, but all means, trade him.

The talent given up in that trade was enormous.

[Dick Allen]

The talent given up in that trade was enormous.

Adam Jones has a lot of talent. The other 3 are easily attainable for some obscure player you would never miss if KW is interested. In fact, he could have had George Sherrill for nothing but wisely passed. The Orioles lost 93 games in 2007 and lost another 93 when they traded Bedard in 2008 and 98 games in 2009 and 96 in 2010 not that it didn't work out for them because of the injury, but even with this "enormous" haul they received, if Bedard were healthy, and never traded, chances are they would have won more games. The Sox are trying to win in 2011. If they lose 93 or 96 or 98 games, there is going to be a whole lot of payroll slashing because attendance will take a huge nosedive.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Dick Allen

[bigruss]

Adam Jones has a lot of talent. The other 3 are easily attainable for some obscure player you would never miss if KW is interested. In fact, he could have had George Sherrill for nothing but wisely passed. The Orioles lost 93 games in 2007 and lost another 93 when they traded Bedard in 2008 and 98 games in 2009 and 96 in 2010 not that it didn't work out for them because of the injury, but even with this "enormous" haul they received, if Bedard were healthy, and never traded, chances are they would have won more games. The Sox are trying to win in 2011. If they lose 93 or 96 or 98 games, there is going to be a whole lot of payroll slashing because attendance will take a huge nosedive.

You forgot about pitching prospect Chris Tillman, ranked in 2009 as the #22nd best prospect in all of baseball and looking to be a frontline starter for years to come.

[Soxfest]

Could A Quentin/Rasmus swap possibly work?

 

NO they would hang up the phone!

[Dick Allen]

You forgot about pitching prospect Chris Tillman, ranked in 2009 as the #22nd best prospect in all of baseball and looking to be a frontline starter for years to come.

Yeah, I missed him, but I don't know if he's quite looking like a frontline starter for years to come yet, and that trade was 3 years ago, so even with this trade that appeals to you, the team isn't better yet because of it, Why not keep Danks. Maybe he has a huge year. You can't tell me you won't get a big return if he has a good season a year from now. The rush to trade him just for perhaps more hitting, doesn't add up to me, and I hope doesn't add up for KW unless he's decided to re build.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

Tillman didn't exactly do a ton to help his case this year either. Completely flopped in the majors (again), saw a decrease in his K/9, and an increase in home runs, and this was his 2nd go around in AAA too. I'm not going to suddenly say he's not a prospect, just that it's possible. Considering that something along the lines of 60-65% of top 100 pitching prospects fail, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Balta1701]

Tillman didn't exactly do a ton to help his case this year either. Completely flopped in the majors (again), saw a decrease in his K/9, and an increase in home runs, and this was his 2nd go around in AAA too. I'm not going to suddenly say he's not a prospect, just that it's possible. Considering that something along the lines of 60-65% of top 100 pitching prospects fail, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

If KW got his hands on a guy like Tillman at the time that he started AA, he'd probably have used him in a trade within the 2 years before he hit the bigs.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Dick its pretty simple, this team has pitching depth and need another big time bat. You saw how the season went with the pitching staff we have and the lack of hitting. Unless the Sox have the money to sign 2 impact bats then there is no way a starter shouldnt be traded and Danks makes the most sense, he'll give you the best return and may not resign.

[Dick Allen]

Tillman didn't exactly do a ton to help his case this year either. Completely flopped in the majors (again), saw a decrease in his K/9, and an increase in home runs, and this was his 2nd go around in AAA too. I'm not going to suddenly say he's not a prospect, just that it's possible. Considering that something along the lines of 60-65% of top 100 pitching prospects fail, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Plus he was 29th in a Baseball America list which, from what I understand is just guys like Phil Rogers getting glowing reports from GMs ranking them. BP didn't have him in their top 100 coming into this year. He's still a better prospect than most, he's just not a lock to be anything special.

[Dick Allen]

Dick its pretty simple, this team has pitching depth and need another big time bat. You saw how the season went with the pitching staff we have and the lack of hitting. Unless the Sox have the money to sign 2 impact bats then there is no way a starter shouldnt be traded and Danks makes the most sense, he'll give you the best return and may not resign.

No I didn't. I saw when the Sox struggled, the pitching staff struggled. It would have been very nice to have a real DH, and the Sox could have had one for $1.5 million, but chose to pass. If you saw how the season went, you would come to the conclusion with injuries to Peavy, Sale's age and lack of experience, Garcia's recent health history, Buerhle's workload the past decade, Floyd finishing 2 seasons in a row hurt, that pitching depth is a must. Trading Danks for a hitter will result in more runs, but fewer wins. I guess runs are more important to you.

[Balta1701]

No I didn't. I saw when the Sox struggled, the pitching staff struggled. It would have been very nice to have a real DH, and the Sox could have had one for $1.5 million, but chose to pass. If you saw how the season went, you would come to the conclusion with injuries to Peavy, Sale's age and lack of experience, Garcia's recent health history, Buerhle's workload the past decade, Floyd finishing 2 seasons in a row hurt, that pitching depth is a must. Trading Danks for a hitter will result in more runs, but fewer wins. I guess runs are more important to you.

There's always a question though about how you define pitching depth, especially in a starting rotation. This fanbase still has scars on it from 2003-2004 when the "5th starter" spot went >1 year without recording a win, but that's not how it normally goes with 5th starter spots.

 

Take a look at each and every team in the playoffs right now and their 5th starter spot. Name a team that has a solid, every-time 5th starter.

 

The Giants...their $20 million 5th starter didn't even make their playoff roster as a LOOGY, and they've shuffled in guys like Baumgartner midway through the season.

 

The Yankees...their 4th starter wasn't even on tap to get a start in the DS, they're probably unhappy about giving him one in the LCS, and their 5th starter didn't make their postseason roster.

 

The Rangers have a clear 123, all of whom pitched 200+ innings, but no one else pitched 150+. Hunter pitched 128 on the season due to some injury problems, and their 5th starter was unclear at the start of the year and bounced around.

 

The Phillies have a great top 3, Joe Blanton is a reliable #4, but their 5th guy (Moyer) got hurt for the season and so they wound up needing Oswalt. They have the most complete starting rotation in the playoffs, and even they had to go out and deal for a starter.

 

Freddy Garcia for the Sox last year was a positive anomaly. Most teams shuffle through several 5th starters over the course of a season. Most teams get an ERA of well over 5.5 out of their 5th starter spot, cumulative. Teams can get to the playoffs by having a solid 5th starter because it can be worth several extra wins, but it's no where near a requirement.

 

If this team can hold onto the 6 man pitching staff and field a competent offense with an upgraded DH slot compared to last year, then doing so is a good move. If this team has to choose between going with their top 5 pitchers and fielding a competent offense, their top 5 pitchers are likely to be good enough to do it. Signing someone to be a long man and occasional starter would be a solid move for depth, but that's not worth more than a couple million dollars to us.

[Dick Allen]

There's always a question though about how you define pitching depth, especially in a starting rotation. This fanbase still has scars on it from 2003-2004 when the "5th starter" spot went >1 year without recording a win, but that's not how it normally goes with 5th starter spots.

 

Take a look at each and every team in the playoffs right now and their 5th starter spot. Name a team that has a solid, every-time 5th starter.

 

The Giants...their $20 million 5th starter didn't even make their playoff roster as a LOOGY, and they've shuffled in guys like Baumgartner midway through the season.

 

The Yankees...their 4th starter wasn't even on tap to get a start in the DS, they're probably unhappy about giving him one in the LCS, and their 5th starter didn't make their postseason roster.

 

The Rangers have a clear 123, all of whom pitched 200+ innings, but no one else pitched 150+. Hunter pitched 128 on the season due to some injury problems, and their 5th starter was unclear at the start of the year and bounced around.

 

The Phillies have a great top 3, Joe Blanton is a reliable #4, but their 5th guy (Moyer) got hurt for the season and so they wound up needing Oswalt. They have the most complete starting rotation in the playoffs, and even they had to go out and deal for a starter.

 

Freddy Garcia for the Sox last year was a positive anomaly. Most teams shuffle through several 5th starters over the course of a season. Most teams get an ERA of well over 5.5 out of their 5th starter spot, cumulative. Teams can get to the playoffs by having a solid 5th starter because it can be worth several extra wins, but it's no where near a requirement.

 

If this team can hold onto the 6 man pitching staff and field a competent offense with an upgraded DH slot compared to last year, then doing so is a good move. If this team has to choose between going with their top 5 pitchers and fielding a competent offense, their top 5 pitchers are likely to be good enough to do it. Signing someone to be a long man and occasional starter would be a solid move for depth, but that's not worth more than a couple million dollars to us.

My point being Danks is need on the White Sox pitching staff. If trading a pitcher is a must, trade someone else. Buerhle for sentimental reasons is the guy who pitches opening day. Peavy when healthy is probably the best pitcher of the bunch but will he ever be healthy again? Danks is the best pitcher on the Sox roster. You don't trade the best pitcher on your roster if you are trying to win. You can upgrade your offense with 2nd or 3rd tier FAs like KW did in 2005 and win that way. If the Sox don't bring Konerko back, they are going to have some money to spend.