Colby Rasmus should be on the White Sox radar

[Jordan4life_2007]

uh what slump???

 

What slump? Both Swisher trades, Masset for super washed up Griffey Jr., the Javy trade, the Pena trade, the Peavy deal (if only because he was damaged goods when we traded for him), the Teahen trade and despicable extension, failure to upgrade the DH before or during the season, and the, you know it's coming, Hudson/Jackson trade. KW and company have been awful the last three years. But hey, at least we're still in win-now mode.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Jordan4life

[2nd_city_saint787]

What slump? Both Swisher trades, Masset for super washed up Griffey Jr., the Javy trade, the Pena trade, the Peavy deal (if only because he was damaged goods when we traded for him), the Teahen trade and despicable extension, failure to upgrade the DH before or during the season, and the, you know it's coming, Hudson/Jackson trade. KW and company have been awful the last three years. But hey, at least we're still in win-now mode.

 

 

Neither Swisher trades were on KW IMO the ball club desperately needed a guy who can get on base and swish was ranked 6th in the AL in OBP maybe he gave up a bit too much but they were all unproven players we gave up, and the best prospect we gave up at the time (dLS) isnt even expected to be more than a bullpen guy so you that right there shows you just dont know what you got in prospects and swish was coming off 2 straight really good years where he hit 57 HR drove in 173 RBI plus he had an obp over .370 both years. who knew hed come to a smaller ballpark and suck and because he sucked we couldnt get a good return. They still got jeff marquez who a top 10 prospect in the yankees farm system could he have got more?? maybe but we dont know that im sure kenny tried to get more.

 

Junior had 18 HR and drove in 71 in 08, you traded a reliever who had a 4+ era and a danny richar, who knew masset was gonna be as good as he is now and where is danny richar now???

 

 

Not sure which Javy trade youre talking about but neither do i see as bad deals, yes tyler flowers slumped this year but Lilli looks to be the utility man of the future, maybe more, Gilmore and rodriguez also look good in the minors. 3 years from now i wouldnt be surprised if all 4 are in the majors.

 

ill give you the pena trade.

 

The peavy deal was obviously made for the future since peavy was hurt.

 

Teahen lookd/looked like he could be a good hitter or at the very least better than josh fields

 

the DH is supposedly what ozzie wanted so i put that on him

 

The Jackson/Hudson trade is still up in the air and is on Don Cooper, he wanted jackson over hudson.

 

 

I wouldnt really say its a slump as far as them being bad deals

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Neither Swisher trades were on KW IMO the ball club desperately needed a guy who can get on base and swish was ranked 6th in the AL in OBP maybe he gave up a bit too much but they were all unproven players we gave up, and the best prospect we gave up at the time (dLS) isnt even expected to be more than a bullpen guy

We were annoyed at giving up DLS, but there's no way that you could call a guy in single-A ball the best prospect we gave up at the time. Not when Gio was in that deal. If for no other reason than the fact that he was at a much higher level.

[2nd_city_saint787]

We were annoyed at giving up DLS, but there's no way that you could call a guy in single-A ball the best prospect we gave up at the time. Not when Gio was in that deal. If for no other reason than the fact that he was at a much higher level.

 

 

De Los Santos was rated numero uno by baseball prospectus at the time of the trade.

[Dick Allen]

You are the one who keeps saying we have no money to spend... Isn't it obvious?

When did I say they have no money to spend? I have only stated what has happened, KW is hinting budget. Guess what, you trade Danks, there are going to be fewer fans in the stands. Pitching wins. The Sox have Konerko, Jenks, AJP all off the books. There should be some money available for a decent bat or 2. Destroying your rotation isn't the right move. Its a lot harder to get a pitcher of Danks quality than hitters who can help you win if your staff is decent.

 

If money is the reason everyone wants the Sox to trade Danks, it makes the Jackson move and the Ramirez very questionable. I didn't mind the Jackson move at all, but if the choice is Jackson and whatever you can get for Danks or Danks and Hudson, I take Danks and Hudson. If the Sox have $4 million for Manny Ramirez, money should not be discussed as an issue with this team.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

Not sure which Javy trade youre talking about but neither do i see as bad deals, yes tyler flowers slumped this year but Lilli looks to be the utility man of the future, maybe more, Gil

Brent Lillibridge? Really? .248 OBP and 36 ks in 98 AB make it seem like he's more of a Culligan man of the future than the utility man of the future.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

De Los Santos was rated numero uno by baseball prospectus at the time of the trade.

Can you demonstrate that? He was the #1 prospect in all of baseball?

[2nd_city_saint787]

Brent Lillibridge? Really? .248 OBP and 36 ks in 98 AB make it seem like he's more of a Culligan man of the future than the utility man of the future.

 

 

ya youre right on that one, i was just trying to boost my arguement, he did have a good stretch at one point last year where it looked like he might actually have some worth...but Flowers, Gilmore, and Rodriguez all look like they could contribute to the big club at some point and technically so has Lilli.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Can you demonstrate that? He was the #1 prospect in all of baseball?

 

 

in the sox system, not all of baseball...couldnt find the actual ratings but this backs up my statement

 

 

The 21-year-old De Los Santos was ranked the top prospect in the Chicago farm system by Baseball Prospectus. The right-hander went 10-5 with a 2.65 ERA for Class A Kannapolis and Class A Winston-Salem. He was picked as the South Atlantic League's top prospect.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3179423

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

in the sox system, not all of baseball...couldnt find the actual ratings but this backs up my statement

Our system was an abject disaster at the time, that wasn't saying much. DLS was still just a guy who'd had 1 good year in A-ball.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Our system was an abject disaster at the time, that wasn't saying much. DLS was still just a guy who'd had 1 good year in A-ball.

 

I agree but my argument was about trading prospects for "proven talent" and Swish looked like proven talent.

[Balta1701]

I agree but my argument was about trading prospects for "proven talent" and Swish looked like proven talent.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to challenge that claim.

 

Anyway...if you want the opinion on the whole argument...your point is that those deals are up and down and may have looked better at the time. The response you ought to get is...when you've gone 0 for your last 30 at the plate, everyone who looks at you is going to think you're in a slump. You might look back at the end of the season and have won a batting title, but that doesn't mean that the time where everything had gone wrong wasn't a slump.

 

Right now, one can argue that every single one of KW's trades since the Quentin deal has made us worse right now than we ought to have been. That's a slump. Some of these guys could snap out of it. Peavy could win 25 games next year and look stellar. Jackson could win some playoff games and shut me up. But right now, every one of KW's recent deals looks bad.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Neither Swisher trades were on KW IMO the ball club desperately needed a guy who can get on base and swish was ranked 6th in the AL in OBP maybe he gave up a bit too much but they were all unproven players we gave up, and the best prospect we gave up at the time (dLS) isnt even expected to be more than a bullpen guy so you that right there shows you just dont know what you got in prospects and swish was coming off 2 straight really good years where he hit 57 HR drove in 173 RBI plus he had an obp over .370 both years. who knew hed come to a smaller ballpark and suck and because he sucked we couldnt get a good return. They still got jeff marquez who a top 10 prospect in the yankees farm system could he have got more?? maybe but we dont know that im sure kenny tried to get more.

 

Neither Swisher trade was on KW? Did he not make both trades? They gave up too much to get him and got back crap when they traded him to the Yankees. And why are you focusing on only DLS, who by the way had a staggering K/9 of 13.9, while ignoring the other premium arm we gave up in Gio Ganzalez? Add in Sweeney, and that was simply an overpay for a 3-tier type OF. Jeff Marquez is absolute horses*** and has no future whatsoever with this organization. Nunez is minor league fodder. Wilson Betemit? No comment. Let's face it, Ozzie didn't like Nick so they traded him at a time where his value was at it's absolute lowest.

 

Junior had 18 HR and drove in 71 in 08, you traded a reliever who had a 4+ era and a danny richar, who knew masset was gonna be as good as he is now and where is danny richar now???

 

He had a career low .787 OPS at the time of the trade and he was almost 40. Who knew Masset was going to be a good reliever? Apparently KW did. Remember the famous "tick" below Bobby Jenks' stuff comment? And all he's done is go on to flourish with the Reds. Don Cooper? Hello? Who cares about Richar. He was a throw-in.

 

 

Not sure which Javy trade youre talking about but neither do i see as bad deals, yes tyler flowers slumped this year but Lilli looks to be the utility man of the future, maybe more, Gilmore and rodriguez also look good in the minors. 3 years from now i wouldnt be surprised if all 4 are in the majors.

 

Well both trades turned out to be bad. But I was referring to the second one. With Flowers completely falling off the prospect map, and it was obvious to those in the know that he was never going to cut it as a catcher, all we have to show for it is Brent f***ing Lillibridge? Fail. And you talk about how you never know with prospects yet you think Gilmore and Rodriguez will be in the majors?

 

ill give you the pena trade.

 

Paging Don Cooper? What's happened here? He's got a 95 MPH fastball and Buehrle K rates. Not to mention excessive walks. To be fair, I gave KW the benefit of the doubt here. I thought this could be another Thornton type of move. A year and a half later, the verdict is in: Pena f***ing sucks. And it sure would be nice to have a 24-year old, athletic 1B/LF with plus power who would obviously be dirt cheap for the next 6 years. Especially with PK's future in question. But hey, what do I know?

 

 

The peavy deal was obviously made for the future since peavy was hurt.

 

And he's still hurt. And it looks like he's going to be a major injury risk going forward. Wonderful.

 

 

Teahen lookd/looked like he could be a good hitter or at the very least better than josh fields.

 

When did Teahen ever look like he can be a good hitter? 2006? And better than Josh Fields? Well that's setting the bar real high. lol. Teahen is horrible and KW should be ashamed of himself.

 

 

the DH is supposedly what ozzie wanted so i put that on him

 

Please, KW deserves just as much blame. Though I definitely think Ozzie is a moron.

 

 

The Jackson/Hudson trade is still up in the air and is on Don Cooper, he wanted jackson over hudson.

 

Unless Jackson thoroughly outperforms Hudson for the next 6 years this trade is a fail.

 

 

I wouldnt really say its a slump as far as them being bad deals

 

Slump? Bad deals? What's the difference. For years the rebuttal to KW trading away young talent like it's got an expiration date was how many of these guys have come back to haunt us? Well guess what, we're being f***ing haunted now. This organization is in a world of trouble at the moment.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Neither Swisher trade was on KW? Did he not make both trades? They gave up too much to get him and got back crap when they traded him to the Yankees. And why are you focusing on only DLS, who by the way had a staggering K/9 of 13.9, while ignoring the other premium arm we gave up in Gio Ganzalez? Add in Sweeney, and that was simply an overpay for a 3-tier type OF. Jeff Marquez is absolute horses*** and has no future whatsoever with this organization. Nunez is minor league fodder. Wilson Betemit? No comment. Let's face it, Ozzie didn't like Nick so they traded him at a time where his value was at it's absolute lowest.

 

I said it wasnt on KW because Swisher sucked but there was nothing that showed KW that he should suck, since he sucked you didnt get a good return when you traded him, if he woulda played like KW and everyone else ecpected we woulda got a good return...i just focus on DLS to make a point about trading prospects. The top one in that trade is expected to just be a bullpen guy now.

 

 

 

He had a career low .787 OPS at the time of the trade and he was almost 40. Who knew Masset was going to be a good reliever? Apparently KW did. Remember the famous "tick" below Bobby Jenks' stuff comment? And all he's done is go on to flourish with the Reds. Don Cooper? Hello? Who cares about Richar. He was a throw-in.

 

I dont remember that tick below jenks saying all i remember was him having a high era and us needing some pop,

 

 

 

Well both trades turned out to be bad. But I was referring to the second one. With Flowers completely falling off the prospect map, and it was obvious to those in the know that he was never going to cut it as a catcher, all we have to show for it is Brent f***ing Lillibridge? Fail. And you talk about how you never know with prospects yet you think Gilmore and Rodriguez will be in the majors?

 

deal looked good when it happened

 

 

Paging Don Cooper? What's happened here? He's got a 95 MPH fastball and Buehrle K rates. Not to mention excessive walks. To be fair, I gave KW the benefit of the doubt here. I thought this could be another Thornton type of move. A year and a half later, the verdict is in: Pena f***ing sucks. And it sure would be nice to have a 24-year old, athletic 1B/LF with plus power who would obviously be dirt cheap for the next 6 years. Especially with PK's future in question. But hey, what do I know?

 

I was agreeing with you here, so need to put the what do i know

 

 

 

And he's still hurt. And it looks like he's going to be a major injury risk going forward. Wonderful.

 

 

is he not supposed to start when the season begins???

 

 

When did Teahen ever look like he can be a good hitter? 2006? And better than Josh Fields? Well that's setting the bar real high. lol. Teahen is horrible and KW should be ashamed of himself.

 

Kenny should be ashamed of himself on the extension. Sox wanted an upgrade over Fields and they got it.

 

 

 

Please, KW deserves just as much blame. Though I definitely think Ozzie is a moron.

 

 

Agreed but it was what ozzie wanted and thats what kenny gave him, KW should have known better though

 

 

Unless Jackson thoroughly outperforms Hudson for the next 6 years this trade is a fail.

 

we shall see, EJax looked pretty damn good with us.

 

 

Slump? Bad deals? What's the difference. For years the rebuttal to KW trading away young talent like it's got an expiration date was how many of these guys have come back to haunt us? Well guess what, we're being f***ing haunted now. This organization is in a world of trouble at the moment.

 

 

i guess youre right in the sense that those where all good at the time but ended up sucking so if you wanna call that a slump i agree but at the time they were made i wouldnt call any of em minus the pena trade a bad deal....i guess i just misinterpreted a slump .....also in no ways is this ogr in a world of trouble, the offseason hasnt even begun

 

[dmbjeff]

When did I say they have no money to spend? I have only stated what has happened, KW is hinting budget. Guess what, you trade Danks, there are going to be fewer fans in the stands. Pitching wins. The Sox have Konerko, Jenks, AJP all off the books. There should be some money available for a decent bat or 2. Destroying your rotation isn't the right move. Its a lot harder to get a pitcher of Danks quality than hitters who can help you win if your staff is decent.

 

If money is the reason everyone wants the Sox to trade Danks, it makes the Jackson move and the Ramirez very questionable. I didn't mind the Jackson move at all, but if the choice is Jackson and whatever you can get for Danks or Danks and Hudson, I take Danks and Hudson. If the Sox have $4 million for Manny Ramirez, money should not be discussed as an issue with this team.

 

There won't be fewer fans in the stands if we trade Danks away. People said the same thing about Buehrle being a possible FA, that people would be sad and folks would stay away from the ballpark. The fact is, the only thing that brings fans to the Cell is a winning baseball team. I don't care how they do it and if trading Danks gets us a huge package of talent and makes us a better ballclub, I am all for it.

[Jerksticks]

Unless Jackson thoroughly outperforms Hudson for the next 6 years this trade is a fail.

 

I hate this argument. Our entire front office thought this was a good trade. They weren't confident in Hudson, period. You have to understand that they didn't want to send an unproven kid out there every 5 days in a tight race. Jackson was awesome and more than any of US expected him to be, but the front office knew the whole time what they were getting. Our team is better next year...plus 8 mil. We have Edwin Freaking Jackson now; talk about yer all-time Peavy insurance.

[Balta1701]

I hate this argument. Our entire front office thought this was a good trade. They weren't confident in Hudson, period. You have to understand that they didn't want to send an unproven kid out there every 5 days in a tight race. Jackson was awesome and more than any of US expected him to be, but the front office knew the whole time what they were getting. Our team is better next year...plus 8 mil. We have Edwin Freaking Jackson now; talk about yer all-time Peavy insurance.

You know, I just checked the numbers for the first time because I was curious and your post made me think about it. Jackson was actually only "awesome" for 1 month. He had an amazing August. His Sept/October was actually below average. His ERA by month this year:

 

6.67

5.58

2.11

7.24

1.47

4.93

 

Jackson went 1-2 in September with a 4.93 ERA. He had a stellar month of August. That was more than I expected him to be, I'll grant, but that doesn't come anywhere near making me include the word "Freaking" in his name.

[Jordan4life_2007]

i guess youre right in the sense that those where all good at the time but ended up sucking so if you wanna call that a slump i agree but at the time they were made i wouldnt call any of em minus the pena trade a bad deal....i guess i just misinterpreted a slump .....also in no ways is this ogr in a world of trouble, the offseason hasnt even begun

 

Except basically none of those deals looked good at the time (outside of assuming we would eventually get a healthy Peavy) and they look worse now. Most of them were pretty much risk/reward. And there's been absolutely no reward to this point. And this organization is indeed in a world of trouble. Too many holes+little money to spend+horrible, horrible farm system+being in the same league as the Twins, Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Angels=world of trouble.

 

I hate this argument. Our entire front office thought this was a good trade. They weren't confident in Hudson, period. You have to understand that they didn't want to send an unproven kid out there every 5 days in a tight race. Jackson was awesome and more than any of US expected him to be, but the front office knew the whole time what they were getting. Our team is better next year...plus 8 mil. We have Edwin Freaking Jackson now; talk about yer all-time Peavy insurance.

 

But they were more confident in sending a perennial underachiever out there? And I will concede, Jackson did well. Even if it was against mediocre lineups for the most part. But Hudson, at least for the moment, has made the entire front office look foolish. There was obviously something there that they failed to identify. A kid doesn't go on that kinda run by accident literally right after you trade him. And lol@Jackson being "all-time" Peavy insurance. That's worse than CQ/Danks being a good enough package to "land anybody."

Edited October 16, 2010 by Jordan4life

[hitlesswonder]

But Hudson, at least for the moment, has made the entire front office look foolish. There was obviously something there that they failed to identify. A kid doesn't go on that kinda run by accident literally right after you trade him. And lol@Jackson being "all-time" Peavy insurance. That's worse than CQ/Danks being a good enough package to "land anybody."

 

KW has had about one decent move in the last 2 years: picking up Rios for the cost of his contract. This year at least, he played to his contract and gave the Sox their first decent CF since the fire and the passion left. But even the Rios move isn't a pure win, he's really expensive. But the Sox are so bereft of position talent they can't be picky about acquiring anyone that can play.

 

This offseason, at least one of Danks or Floyd has to/will be traded. It's basically all the Sox have to move. But even then I don't think either of those guys will bring anything close to what this board wants. CQ, Danks, Santos, and Morel might be enough to get Rasmus but I don't see CQ and Danks alone being close....

[sircaffey]

This offseason, at least one of Danks or Floyd has to/will be traded. It's basically all the Sox have to move. But even then I don't think either of those guys will bring anything close to what this board wants. CQ, Danks, Santos, and Morel might be enough to get Rasmus but I don't see CQ and Danks alone being close....

Sadly, I wouldn't rule out another Swisher-like deal with Jackson - a nothing package consisting of a medicore RP, once-hyped but now sucks OF, and a s***ty prospect.

[Dick Allen]

There won't be fewer fans in the stands if we trade Danks away. People said the same thing about Buehrle being a possible FA, that people would be sad and folks would stay away from the ballpark. The fact is, the only thing that brings fans to the Cell is a winning baseball team. I don't care how they do it and if trading Danks gets us a huge package of talent and makes us a better ballclub, I am all for it.

There won't be fewer fans because they will be missing John Danks. There will be fewer fans because there will be fewer wins. And why do people want to trade him at all. If he stays 2 season and leaves, the Sox will get the draft picks so many people around here covet. He's definitelyh a guy you would offer arb.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Dick Allen

[dmbjeff]

There won't be fewer fans because they will be missing John Danks. There will be fewer fans because there will be fewer wins. And why do people want to trade him at all. If he stays 2 season and leaves, the Sox will get the draft picks so many people around here covet. He's definitelyh a guy you would offer arb.

 

if you trade danks, the idea is to get better, which means to have more wins than the previous year. i don't expect them to trade danks, just to trade him. the haul for a danks should and will be pretty huge if he goes.

[Jerksticks]

KW has had about one decent move in the last 2 years: picking up Rios for the cost of his contract. This year at least, he played to his contract and gave the Sox their first decent CF since the fire and the passion left. But even the Rios move isn't a pure win, he's really expensive. But the Sox are so bereft of position talent they can't be picky about acquiring anyone that can play.

 

This offseason, at least one of Danks or Floyd has to/will be traded. It's basically all the Sox have to move. But even then I don't think either of those guys will bring anything close to what this board wants. CQ, Danks, Santos, and Morel might be enough to get Rasmus but I don't see CQ and Danks alone being close....

 

No way man! Holy overpay. I think Danks is close to enough to get Rasmus. Talent-wise it's a good swap, but since Rasmus plays everyday and Danks is more expensive, I would understand us having to give another piece. But not 3 more major leaguers, cmon a bit.

[Dick Allen]

if you trade danks, the idea is to get better, which means to have more wins than the previous year. i don't expect them to trade danks, just to trade him. the haul for a danks should and will be pretty huge if he goes.

And you just made my point. Trading Danks, as many posts in this thread suggest as PART of a package for Colby Rasmus, isn't going to make the Sox better. They will be worse. Their payroll may be a few dollars less.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And you just made my point. Trading Danks, as many posts in this thread suggest as PART of a package for Colby Rasmus, isn't going to make the Sox better. They will be worse. Their payroll may be a few dollars less.

 

Well if Mr. #3 starter thinks he's too good to sign an extension then what would you suggest we do? He's still under control for two more years and this would be the best time to trade him if you choose to go that route. Give me a 24-year old athletic, multiple tool CF over a #3 (though a really good one) any day.