Eduardo Escobar featured on MILB.com

[bigruss]

Even better reply, just disregard statistics. Of course games need to be played, best way to prepare for it is to have a balance between scouting and statistical production. Morel has good to great defense and that shouldnt be discounted, but his bat could kill an already weak offense (lots of time left in the offseason to fix this still). If not, hello Mariners.

 

 

I never disregarded his offense. I'm also not the one using only offensive stats to try to justify his worth, or lack there of.

Hmm....

[RockRaines]

And that's not even true. I'm not even in the top 10 around here when it comes to negativity. But I can't stand homerism and the residue from 2005 has all but vanished. I don't like the current position or direction my favorite team is in.

You've definitely made some people press the ignore button on you lately, maybe you just don't see it because you are blind with anger.

[gatnom]

It still neglects the fact that Morel is already a plus defender at 3B for a team that thrives when it gets good defense.

 

I think we both know it's more complicated than that.

[chisoxfan09]

Would it be possible to imagine an infield defense of Morel, Escobar, & Becks for at the next 4-5 years? Obviously the development of Escobar as a hitter has to continue but it could be a great double play combo for a few years. Morel showed some good contact and has room to improve. Only thing in the grey area is 1B (Konerko or Viciedo)?

[bigruss]

Would it be possible to imagine an infield defense of Morel, Escobar, & Becks for at the next 4-5 years? Obviously the development of Escobar as a hitter has to continue but it could be a great double play combo for a few years. Morel showed some good contact and has room to improve. Only thing in the grey area is 1B (Konerko or Viciedo)?

If Konerko is playing in 5 years he is on something.

[chisoxfan09]

If Konerko is playing in 5 years he is on something.

 

Yeah I don't imagine him to be there in 2015-2016 but was implying it could be a pretty good defensive infield from 2nd to 3rd base.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Would it be possible to imagine an infield defense of Morel, Escobar, & Becks for at the next 4-5 years? Obviously the development of Escobar as a hitter has to continue but it could be a great double play combo for a few years. Morel showed some good contact and has room to improve. Only thing in the grey area is 1B (Konerko or Viciedo)?

 

I would think Escobar has to be getting groomed as trade bait, unless he can be a slick fielding 3B too, and out hit Morel. I don't think Alexei gets moved out of his SS spot for a long time, especially since he has to be the best defensive SS in the game right now. And I don't see the Sox moving Beckham back to 3B, so I would think that Escobar has to be the odd man out unless he can prove he can play 3B, and then Morel gets traded.

[witesoxfan]

I really don't think Escobar will be long for the organization. Perhaps they like him enough that they'd have no problem using him in a utility role, but Williams pretty much only operates in a 3 year window, and Ramirez is still going to be with the White Sox in 3 years.

[qwerty]

Funny thread guys. As always. Funny like a bad movie.

[southsider2k5]

I think we both know it's more complicated than that.

 

Not really. We have a team full of ground ball pitchers. The difference in this team between Vizquel and Teahen was night and day.

[Jerksticks]

Not really. We have a team full of ground ball pitchers. The difference in this team between Vizquel and Teahen was night and day.

 

Teahen still hasn't proven he's a productive MLB player. Can't we have a judge annul that contract.

[gatnom]

Not really. We have a team full of ground ball pitchers. The difference in this team between Vizquel and Teahen was night and day.

 

Because the only reason we won all those games in a row was Vizquel, nothing else.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You've definitely made some people press the ignore button on you lately, maybe you just don't see it because you are blind with anger.

And I feel the same way about the chronic homers. I admit I haven't been Mr sunshine of late. But don't act as if I'm one of the guys who declared the season over 10 games in back in April. I gave Ozzie and KW the benefit of the doubt back in March when it was clear to most that the rotating DH was a potential disaster in waiting. I even stood behind the despicable Teahen extension. Both were/are spectacular fails and criticism is warranted. But I can get over that. What I can't get over is the fact that we have a GM that refuses to learn from past mistakes. Consistently ignoring the future to "go for it" every year no matter how many times we come up short. Other than the Rios claim, KW has been brutal the last three years. This is not opinion to me, but a cold fact. One year can be dismissed as a fluke. Three years is a trend. But yeah, if I'm supposed to be the board version of Hawk Harrelson or a ranger clone because of 2005 then go ahead and ignore me. Cuz that s*** ain't happening.

[NorthSideSox72]

And I feel the same way about the chronic homers. I admit I haven't been Mr sunshine of late. But don't act as if I'm one of the guys who declared the season over 10 games in back in April. I gave Ozzie and KW the benefit of the doubt back in March when it was clear to most that the rotating DH was a potential disaster in waiting. I even stood behind the despicable Teahen extension. Both were/are spectacular fails and criticism is warranted. But I can get over that. What I can't get over is the fact that we have a GM that refuses to learn from past mistakes. Consistently ignoring the future to "go for it" every year no matter how many times we come up short. Other than the Rios claim, KW has been brutal the last three years. This is not opinion to me, but a cold fact. One year can be dismissed as a fluke. Three years is a trend. But yeah, if I'm supposed to be the board version of Hawk Harrelson or a ranger clone because of 2005 then go ahead and ignore me. Cuz that s*** ain't happening.

Other than Ranger and elrockinmt, I don't know of anyone who posts here that fits your description of a chronic homer.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Other than Ranger and elrockinmt, I don't know of anyone who posts here that fits your description of a chronic homer.

I'm not gonna give a list. Cuz I'm really not trying to start anything. Buy how on earth is SS2K5 not in that group? Ace will admit Jeremy Reed should be workin' at a car wash before he ever said anything that could even be mistaken as negativity.

[Jerksticks]

And I feel the same way about the chronic homers. I admit I haven't been Mr sunshine of late. But don't act as if I'm one of the guys who declared the season over 10 games in back in April. I gave Ozzie and KW the benefit of the doubt back in March when it was clear to most that the rotating DH was a potential disaster in waiting. I even stood behind the despicable Teahen extension. Both were/are spectacular fails and criticism is warranted. But I can get over that. What I can't get over is the fact that we have a GM that refuses to learn from past mistakes. Consistently ignoring the future to "go for it" every year no matter how many times we come up short. Other than the Rios claim, KW has been brutal the last three years. This is not opinion to me, but a cold fact. One year can be dismissed as a fluke. Three years is a trend. But yeah, if I'm supposed to be the board version of Hawk Harrelson or a ranger clone because of 2005 then go ahead and ignore me. Cuz that s*** ain't happening.

 

No, it is your opinion. Since when is fact subjective? I don't blame him for Swish because he looked like a pretty good player. And I certainly don't blame him for Peavy- we aren't losing that trade YET. And I sure as hell don't blame him for trying to strengthen our pitching staff last year when Peavy went down. KW wants to win at all times, there's no debating that.

 

Masset trade sucked, I'll give you that.

 

Now please, go put my dossier in your homer file.

[Jordan4life_2007]

No, it is your opinion. Since when is fact subjective? I don't blame him for Swish because he looked like a pretty good player. And I certainly don't blame him for Peavy- we aren't losing that trade YET. And I sure as hell don't blame him for trying to strengthen our pitching staff last year when Peavy went down. KW wants to win at all times, there's no debating that.

 

Masset trade sucked, I'll give you that.

 

Now please, go put my dossier in your homer file.

So the fact that the A's have a young, cheap, quality under control starter for the next 4 or 5 years and a potential dominant reliever who sported a 14.0 K/9 in the minors while all we have to show for it is a couple months of Wilson Betimet is not a major failure? The Pena trade? The Teahen extension? The Javy trade?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Jordan4life

[witesoxfan]

What was wrong with the White Sox trading for Ken Griffey? I'm not sure the Sox win the division without him, even though he was very average during his stint here.

[Dick Allen]

Because the only reason we won all those games in a row was Vizquel, nothing else.

Probably not but it is amazing the team did much better when Teahen got hurt and Vizquel played every day. Maybe it did have a mental effect on the pitchers and changed their season around. The more I watch baseball, the more important pitching and defense becomes in my mind, and it makes no sense to have a great pitching staff but a horrible defense, and that ruins your strength.

 

I'm not a Juan Pierre guy, really I question whether he is a leadoff guy at this stage but he is one guy I have never seen loaf down the first base line, and he can't throw at all, but there were more than a couple of times he made catches on balls with men on base that would have been extra bases and a couple more runs at least if Scotty Pods was out in LF.

 

Obviously you are going to have to score some runs. That is why its imperitive the Sox get a real DH this year whether is by rotation or a permanent guy. They can't play a bat short, especially if you are going to go with a couple of young guys.

[southsider2k5]

Because the only reason we won all those games in a row was Vizquel, nothing else.

 

So where did I say that it did?

[southsider2k5]

I'm not gonna give a list. Cuz I'm really not trying to start anything. Buy how on earth is SS2K5 not in that group? Ace will admit Jeremy Reed should be workin' at a car wash before he ever said anything that could even be mistaken as negativity.

 

Questioning chronic negativity is a bit different than being a homer. Seeing the same stuff repeated over and over until it becomes haters gospel on here is just nauseating.

[Jerksticks]

So the fact that the A's have a young, cheap, quality under control starter for the next 4 or 5 years and a potential dominant reliever who sported a 14.0 K/9 in the minors while all we have to show for it is a couple months of Wilson Betimet is not a major failure? The Pena trade? The Teahen extension? The Javy trade?

 

You said other than the Rios pick-up it's a fact he's been all failure. I'm saying that's not fact but your opinion.

 

I feel like you only use hindsight when judging KW. At the time of the Swish trade he looked like a really good fit (a cost-controlled switch-hitting outfielder, who by the way, is a type of player we could have used these last few years and going forward- not Swish but a player like Swish). The trade hurt because Swish didn't produce or fit in, not because it was a dumb trade. He had A TON of value at the time so it took value to get him. Sweeney had no spot here at The Cell, cmon you know that. Gio looks like a good player but it's 2010 now, not the end of 2007. DLS might never get past AA so don't act like he's some sure thing reliever 3 years later and after major arm surgery.

 

I mean, do you want to wait til 2013 for the next batch of prospects to get to the majors? I'd hate it if we were like the A's, always waiting for some young group to suddenly gel and get hot.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You said other than the Rios pick-up it's a fact he's been all failure. I'm saying that's not fact but your opinion.

 

I feel like you only use hindsight when judging KW. At the time of the Swish trade he looked like a really good fit (a cost-controlled switch-hitting outfielder, who by the way, is a type of player we could have used these last few years and going forward- not Swish but a player like Swish). The trade hurt because Swish didn't produce or fit in, not because it was a dumb trade. He had A TON of value at the time so it took value to get him. Sweeney had no spot here at The Cell, cmon you know that. Gio looks like a good player but it's 2010 now, not the end of 2007. DLS might never get past AA so don't act like he's some sure thing reliever 3 years later and after major arm surgery.

 

I mean, do you want to wait til 2013 for the next batch of prospects to get to the majors? I'd hate it if we were like the A's, always waiting for some young group to suddenly gel and get hot.

Who gives a s*** about hindsight. Lots of trades that go down could look decent at the time and ultimately fail. That's all that really matters. When the giants traded Liriano and Nathan for A.J. you could say it looked good cuz A.J was an established catcher and the other 2 were unknowns. It still went down as an all-time fleeceing. That's all that matters.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Jordan4life

[fathom]

The Javy Vazquez return has been extremely disappointing so far.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Javy Vazquez return has been extremely disappointing so far.

we give up premium talent to get these guys and then dump 'em off on another team when ozzie doesn't like them for mediocre packages.