John Danks trade ideas

[Steve9347]

I'm not being silly at all. The reason people want him traded is he has 2 years left under team control. Obviously he's not as valuable as Pujols, but he's about as valuable of a White Sox as anyone. Trading him would be a mistake unless there is some sort of injury concern. On this board people are saying Buehrle is appropriately paid $14 million because he gives you 200 innings. Danks gives you a better 200 innings, so he's worth a lot more than his arb number, yet, for some reason people want to trade him.

I agree that he's valuable, but comparing his situation to Albert's is just silly.

[Bruce_Blixton]

I'm not being silly at all. The reason people want him traded is he has 2 years left under team control. Obviously he's not as valuable as Pujols, but he's about as valuable of a White Sox as anyone. Trading him would be a mistake unless there is some sort of injury concern. On this board people are saying Buehrle is appropriately paid $14 million because he gives you 200 innings. Danks gives you a better 200 innings, so he's worth a lot more than his arb number, yet, for some reason people want to trade him.

 

It's not that I want to trade him, but it's probably the smarter business decision for the team right now. We all know that it's team policy to not sign pitchers to long-term contracts, it was a miracle that they were willing to sign Buehrle to a 4 year deal. Danks has already shown us that he's not interested in signing an extension with us and wants to test the free agent market after his arbitration years are up. Most likely he'll be offered a 6-7 year deal for 15+ mil/year, an offer we'll never match.

 

I only suggested trading Danks because of the team's philosophy in dealing with pitchers, not because he's a player under the control of the team for two more years. We're not going to have this discussion about Beckham when he's got two years left. Trading Danks this offseason would probably receive the maximum return for him from here on out.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Bruce_Blixton

[3E8]

Danks has already shown us that he's not interested in signing an extension with us and wants to test the free agent market after his arbitration years are up.

Danks was quoted less than one year ago saying the contrary. The White Sox and Danks did not discuss any extension in the past offseason. And he pretty much had no choice but to decline the 4yr/$15M contract the Sox offered after the '08 season, it was not in his best interest

[Dick Allen]

It's not that I want to trade him, but it's probably the smarter business decision for the team right now. We all know that it's team policy to not sign pitchers to long-term contracts, it was a miracle that they were willing to sign Buehrle to a 4 year deal. Danks has already shown us that he's not interested in signing an extension with us and wants to test the free agent market after his arbitration years are up. Most likely he'll be offered a 6-7 year deal for 15+ mil/year, an offer we'll never match.

 

I only suggested trading Danks because of the team's philosophy in dealing with pitchers, not because he's a player under the control of the team for two more years. We're not going to have this discussion about Beckham when he's got two years left. Trading Danks this offseason would probably receive the maximum return for him from here on out.

Smart business decision is BS. The object of the business is to win. Would it be smart to trade Gordon Beckham before arbitration? Might be wise, he'd be worth a lot in a trade right now.Would it be a smart business decision to trade Floyd right now? He has 3 years left, he's probably worth a lot, and definitely more now that he would be if he repeated his last 2 seasons again? You might as well trade everyone. Alexei Ramirez has a nice number on his contract for next year, some team will pay up for him. Send him packing before you have to pay him and get some prospects.

 

In 2004 they signed Garcia to an extension. They signed Buerhle to an extension, they signed Contreras to an extension. There's no reason to think they have no shot of extending Danks, but for some reason people on this board accept it as the truth like they think Walker tells hitters to swing as hard as they can, and they think Cooper tells all the pitchers to take 5 MPH off their fastballs totalling ignoring his biggest suggest story, Thornton. Has he taken 5 MPH off his fastball and the fact that Jenks went to a wind up to gain some velocity.

 

Trading your best starter isn't a good business decision for a team trying to win.

[Balta1701]

Trading your best starter isn't a good business decision for a team trying to win.

I think it won't be that hard to come up with lots of examples of teams doing the exact opposite and winning more the next year.

 

The Padres traded Jake Peavy and nearly won the division.

The Twins traded Santana, got nothing of real use back, and hardly missed a beat.

Toronto was 12 games under .500 in 2009 with Roy Halladay, and 8 games over .500 in 2010 without Roy Halladay.

[southsider2k5]

I think it won't be that hard to come up with lots of examples of teams doing the exact opposite and winning more the next year.

 

The Padres traded Jake Peavy and nearly won the division.

The Twins traded Santana, got nothing of real use back, and hardly missed a beat.

Toronto was 12 games under .500 in 2009 with Roy Halladay, and 8 games over .500 in 2010 without Roy Halladay.

 

Not to mention all of the teams who lost their best starters for nothing...

[Dick Allen]

I think it won't be that hard to come up with lots of examples of teams doing the exact opposite and winning more the next year.

 

The Padres traded Jake Peavy and nearly won the division.

The Twins traded Santana, got nothing of real use back, and hardly missed a beat.

Toronto was 12 games under .500 in 2009 with Roy Halladay, and 8 games over .500 in 2010 without Roy Halladay.

How many playoff series did they win? Peavy was injured when they traded him and injured again this year. 2008 the Twins went to game 163. If they had kept Santana, do you think there is a chance they would have been at least 1 game better and made the playoffs? And Toronto wasn't playing to win in 2010. Are you saying Toronto would have been worse with Roy Halladay in 2010 than with the 3 minor leagers they got for him? The White Sox are trying to win in 2011. I know a lot of people are talking about depth in the starting rotation, but you don't know if Garcia will be back and really how many innings he can give you. You don't know if Sale is ready to be a starter and how many innings he can give you. You know what you have in Buerhle and Floyd. Peavy is a huge question mark. The minor leaguers are not who you want on the mound if you are trying to win.

 

The White Sox bullpen got beat up late in the season and they were one of the least used bullpens around. DO NOT TRADE JOHN DANKS.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dick Allen

[joeynach]

I would do this deal if I were the WSox....probably the Rangers, too (as my above post shows I fully expect Lee to bolt).

 

However, I'd find a way to move MB and deal with Danks in arbitration. I know this has been mentioned in another thread, but with the Cardinals bringing back La Russa for another year...you can't tell me Rasmus for MB/Danks2 isn't appealing to them. If the WSox had to pick up 2-4 mil of MB's final year on his contract...I'm guessing the WSox would be fine with that considering they just gave away $4mil to the Dodgers without caring. Besides, freeing up 10-14 mil makes it easier for the WSox to chase Crawford next year along with Dunn.

 

I see Rasmus getting moved with the rift between he and Pujols. You could certainly argue Rasmus being moved for more than MB...like Greinke per say.

 

Is the assumption that if we get rasmus he plays RF next year with CQ as the DH and then in 2012 he can play either corner OF. Cuz if thats the case we dont have room for Crawford, but could use Dunn at 1B. That would give the sox a sweet lineup for 2011.

 

Pierre

Omar

Rios

Dunn

Rasmus

CQ

Alexi

Castro/Flowers

Beckham

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

How many playoff series did they win? Peavy was injured when they traded him and injured again this year. 2008 the Twins went to game 163. If they had kept Santana, do you think there is a chance they would have been at least 1 game better and made the playoffs? And Toronto wasn't playing to win in 2010. Are you saying Toronto would have been worse with Roy Halladay in 2010 than with the 3 minor leagers they got for him? The White Sox are trying to win in 2011. I know a lot of people are talking about depth in the starting rotation, but you don't know if Garcia will be back and really how many innings he can give you. You don't know if Sale is ready to be a starter and how many innings he can give you. You know what you have in Buerhle and Floyd. Peavy is a huge question mark. The minor leaguers are not who you want on the mound if you are trying to win.

 

The White Sox bullpen got beat up late in the season and they were one of the least used bullpens around. DO NOT TRADE JOHN DANKS.

 

Way to move the goalposts.

[Dick Allen]

Way to move the goalposts.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I said from the beginning, if the object is to win, and your boy KW has stated many times that's exactly what it is, trading Danks is idiotic, unless you are getting back something that is positively ridiculous. Colby Rasmus isn't that.

 

The only reason anyone even mentions trading Danks is budget. They are fearful he might earn what he is worth. So what, then KW won't have $4 million to blow on Manny Ramirez. If you want to use the "well his value may never be higher" line, that's great. Then the White Sox should trade everyone who is possibly at peek trade value. But that's not how it works. You need good players, pitchers especially, to win. That's what Danks is. Perhaps the best pitcher on the White Sox.

 

Why don't you go on the record right now? Should the White Sox trade John Danks if they can get Colby Rasmus for him? Or how about the trade suggestion in the original post?

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dick Allen

[bigruss]

Is the assumption that if we get rasmus he plays RF next year with CQ as the DH and then in 2012 he can play either corner OF. Cuz if thats the case we dont have room for Crawford, but could use Dunn at 1B. That would give the sox a sweet lineup for 2011.

 

Pierre

Omar

Rios

Dunn

Rasmus

CQ

Alexi

Castro/Flowers

Beckham

Any lineup with vizquel batting second and Pierre before him is not a sweet lineup. Unless you have 7 Pujs behi d the two and even then you're just ruining you're first inning.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not moving any goalposts. I said from the beginning, if the object is to win, and your boy KW has stated many times that's exactly what it is, trading Danks is idiotic, unless you are getting back something that is positively ridiculous. Colby Rasmus isn't that.

 

The only reason anyone even mentions trading Danks is budget. They are fearful he might earn what he is worth. So what, then KW won't have $4 million to blow on Manny Ramirez. If you want to use the "well his value may never be higher" line, that's great. Then the White Sox should trade everyone who is possibly at peek trade value. But that's not how it works. You need good players, pitchers especially, to win. That's what Danks is. Perhaps the best pitcher on the White Sox.

 

Why don't you go on the record right now? Should the White Sox trade John Danks if they can get Colby Rasmus for him? Or how about the trade suggestion in the original post?

 

Go on what record? For what? My job as GM, lmao.

 

Anyways, you act like the budget doesn't matter at all, and I know this all goes back to the White Sox are ass-raping the fans to make tons of money off of them argument that you have been making forever, but the reality is, Kenny Williams has a budget. If John Danks isn't willing to sign an extension, which he hasn't been as of yet, letting him walk away is just stupid to an organization that can't replace him. That is the counterside of your whole shtick. In a backdoor way you agree with what I am saying by stating that the Sox need go players. Getting nothing to replace guys who sign massive contracts else where isn't the way to have good players on your team. The ridiculous extra steps in your argument that trading one good player to replenish the system means that we need to trade everyone at "peek" value, is hyperbole at its finest. It also ignores that this is exactly how Kenny does business. If he figures he can't keep a highly valued player, he will deal them to keep the team moving forward. Am I the only one who remembers the Carlos Lee trade? The Aaron Rowand trade? Hell the very trade that got Danks here involved trading a pitcher at his peak value.

 

Because of his contract status, I would put Danks out and see what fish bite. With the premium on pitching, there is a very good chance we could end up better for it. If you don't get what you want, its not like we are obligated to trade him. With the amount of powerhitting out there who is one year away from free agency, it wouldn't surprise me if a deal for a Fielder or Gonzalez could happen, even if it had to involve a third team to get prospects to the original team.

[Dick Allen]

Go on what record? For what? My job as GM, lmao.

 

Anyways, you act like the budget doesn't matter at all, and I know this all goes back to the White Sox are ass-raping the fans to make tons of money off of them argument that you have been making forever, but the reality is, Kenny Williams has a budget. If John Danks isn't willing to sign an extension, which he hasn't been as of yet, letting him walk away is just stupid to an organization that can't replace him. That is the counterside of your whole shtick. In a backdoor way you agree with what I am saying by stating that the Sox need go players. Getting nothing to replace guys who sign massive contracts else where isn't the way to have good players on your team. The ridiculous extra steps in your argument that trading one good player to replenish the system means that we need to trade everyone at "peek" value, is hyperbole at its finest. It also ignores that this is exactly how Kenny does business. If he figures he can't keep a highly valued player, he will deal them to keep the team moving forward. Am I the only one who remembers the Carlos Lee trade? The Aaron Rowand trade? Hell the very trade that got Danks here involved trading a pitcher at his peak value.

 

Because of his contract status, I would put Danks out and see what fish bite. With the premium on pitching, there is a very good chance we could end up better for it. If you don't get what you want, its not like we are obligated to trade him. With the amount of powerhitting out there who is one year away from free agency, it wouldn't surprise me if a deal for a Fielder or Gonzalez could happen, even if it had to involve a third team to get prospects to the original team.

The Aaron Rowand trade? He traded him after a off year for Jim Thome, a guy he basically promised Konerko.

The thread which you have posted in is John Danks trade ideas and the original poster had a trade idea. You wish not to comment again so you can play either side. I then asked if you would make that proposed trade or the one posted all over this board, the Rasmus, again, no answer.

But why trade for Fielder? If its all about budget he's more expensive in 2011 then he's definitely gone. Gonzalez you have for a bargain rate for one year, then he's gone, and I doubt SD would trade Gonzalez for a guy who will actually be more expensive than him next year and they have control of for only one more after that. Perhaps some 3 way, but 2 years of Danks is better than 1 year of Gonzalez IMO. Maybe it would be something to consider if the White Sox knew without a doubt Danks wasn't going to sign or what he's even asking for, as I have never seen anything published other than he rejected the same deal Floyd took. So you don't really know how difficult he will be to extend, and the Sox have a recent history of extending fairly expensive pitchers. I mentioned Garcia, Buerhle, Contreras, they also extended Vazquez. I don't understand why you and a lot of other posters think Danks is automatically gone in 2 years. The White Sox love him, which is something I have going for me, because I don't want him traded, and they won't trade him. At least this offseason.

[Balta1701]

The Aaron Rowand trade? He traded him after a off year for Jim Thome, a guy he basically promised Konerko.

The thread which you have posted in is John Danks trade ideas and the original poster had a trade idea. You wish not to comment again so you can play either side. I then asked if you would make that proposed trade or the one posted all over this board, the Rasmus, again, no answer.

But why trade for Fielder? If its all about budget he's more expensive in 2011 then he's definitely gone. Gonzalez you have for a bargain rate for one year, then he's gone, and I doubt SD would trade Gonzalez for a guy who will actually be more expensive than him next year and they have control of for only one more after that. Perhaps some 3 way, but 2 years of Danks is better than 1 year of Gonzalez IMO. Maybe it would be something to consider if the White Sox knew without a doubt Danks wasn't going to sign or what he's even asking for, as I have never seen anything published other than he rejected the same deal Floyd took. So you don't really know how difficult he will be to extend, and the Sox have a recent history of extending fairly expensive pitchers. I mentioned Garcia, Buerhle, Contreras, they also extended Vazquez. I don't understand why you and a lot of other posters think Danks is automatically gone in 2 years. The White Sox love him, which is something I have going for me, because I don't want him traded, and they won't trade him. At least this offseason.

If it was D1 straight up for Fielder or Gonzalez, no I wouldn't do it either. That might make us barely better in 2011 but it makes us worse in 2012, and it could well make us worse in 2011 by hurting the budget.

 

However, you start talking about Danks for Rasmus, and you've got me interested.

 

You start moving around additional chips in a Fielder or Gonzalez deal, maybe I'm still interested.

 

And you want the best evidence possible that the Sox think there's a good chance that Danks leaves? They already drafted his replacement.

[thedoctor]

My idea is to not trade him.

 

yes, this.

[rockren]

And you want the best evidence possible that the Sox think there's a good chance that Danks leaves? They already drafted his replacement.

 

Bingo.

 

I'd hate for Danks to play the rest of his career anywhere else....but I believe his days in Chicago will numbered sooner than later one way or another.

[elrockinMT]

Can we please just agree that this idea of trading Jon Danks is just crazt talk

[rockren]

Can we please just agree that this idea of trading Jon Danks is just crazt talk

 

I'd like to agree...but it depends what you can get for him IMO.

[Dick Allen]

If it was D1 straight up for Fielder or Gonzalez, no I wouldn't do it either. That might make us barely better in 2011 but it makes us worse in 2012, and it could well make us worse in 2011 by hurting the budget.

 

However, you start talking about Danks for Rasmus, and you've got me interested.

 

You start moving around additional chips in a Fielder or Gonzalez deal, maybe I'm still interested.

 

And you want the best evidence possible that the Sox think there's a good chance that Danks leaves? They already drafted his replacement.

He very well may leave, but they certainly didn't draft Sale as Danks' replacement per se. First off, they had no idea he would even be available where they drafted and 2 years from now when Danks' contract expires, Jackson's will have expired, Buerhle will expire at the same time as Danks, Floyd will have 1 more season, Garcia isn't even signed for 2011, Peavy will probably be bought out at the same time unless the Sox want to pay him $22 million in 2013. So, to say Danks' contract is the reason Sale is a White Sox is silly. Why wasn't he drafted as Garcia's replacement or Buerhle's or Peavy's?

 

JR used to have a policy of 3 year limits on pitchers' contracts. Its actually a pretty wise thought, but the problem is most other teams will go longer so you miss out on a lot of pitchers. Now on Soxtalk, if you are a premium White Sox pitcher and not locked up for at least 3 years, you're trade bait.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

The Aaron Rowand trade? He traded him after a off year for Jim Thome, a guy he basically promised Konerko.

The thread which you have posted in is John Danks trade ideas and the original poster had a trade idea. You wish not to comment again so you can play either side. I then asked if you would make that proposed trade or the one posted all over this board, the Rasmus, again, no answer.

But why trade for Fielder? If its all about budget he's more expensive in 2011 then he's definitely gone. Gonzalez you have for a bargain rate for one year, then he's gone, and I doubt SD would trade Gonzalez for a guy who will actually be more expensive than him next year and they have control of for only one more after that. Perhaps some 3 way, but 2 years of Danks is better than 1 year of Gonzalez IMO. Maybe it would be something to consider if the White Sox knew without a doubt Danks wasn't going to sign or what he's even asking for, as I have never seen anything published other than he rejected the same deal Floyd took. So you don't really know how difficult he will be to extend, and the Sox have a recent history of extending fairly expensive pitchers. I mentioned Garcia, Buerhle, Contreras, they also extended Vazquez. I don't understand why you and a lot of other posters think Danks is automatically gone in 2 years. The White Sox love him, which is something I have going for me, because I don't want him traded, and they won't trade him. At least this offseason.

 

The Sox have a history of extending pitchers, and yet they haven't extended Danks. You really are making my points for me. You do it again when you instantly started looking long term when I talked about guys who could be here for only a year, I thought the idea was to win, right? I would think the difference between a Danks and a Sale would be smaller than the difference between Fielder and Kotsay, which would make us better and win more, right? I believe you said that the object is to win now, and doing anything that would harm that would be idiotic, right?

 

I don't get quite why you are suddenly obsessed with why I would approve of a Danks deal or not (I'm guessing you are looking for something to bookmark to see if you get some kind of internet "victory" here in the future, but will delete if you don't) , but if it were me, I would have to get a young pitcher if I were to do a Rasmus deal. I don't think he is enough by himself. I don't want to see Danks dealt, but I don't see Danks being willing to sign a deal that helps the Sox position as a team out. If he were willing to sign a reasonable contract, which you yourself have shown the Sox have a history of offering, he would have done it already. We know already he turned one down. The Sox history of extending pitchers would indicate to me, that the Sox have made more than just the one offer, to me that is just common sense.

[Dick Allen]

The Sox have a history of extending pitchers, and yet they haven't extended Danks. You really are making my points for me. You do it again when you instantly started looking long term when I talked about guys who could be here for only a year, I thought the idea was to win, right? I would think the difference between a Danks and a Sale would be smaller than the difference between Fielder and Kotsay, which would make us better and win more, right? I believe you said that the object is to win now, and doing anything that would harm that would be idiotic, right?

 

I don't get quite why you are suddenly obsessed with why I would approve of a Danks deal or not (I'm guessing you are looking for something to bookmark to see if you get some kind of internet "victory" here in the future, but will delete if you don't) , but if it were me, I would have to get a young pitcher if I were to do a Rasmus deal. I don't think he is enough by himself. I don't want to see Danks dealt, but I don't see Danks being willing to sign a deal that helps the Sox position as a team out. If he were willing to sign a reasonable contract, which you yourself have shown the Sox have a history of offering, he would have done it already. We know already he turned one down. The Sox history of extending pitchers would indicate to me, that the Sox have made more than just the one offer, to me that is just common sense.

Usually they don't extend pitchers with 3 years left under team control. They tried to buy out the arb years and 1 FA year like with Floyd, but it didn't work. That doesn't mean he will not sign an extension at any time.Why I am obssessed is because of your obsession with me because I state to win in 2011, the Sox cannot trade John Danks.

 

He is still under control for 2 more seasons. They have 2 years to extend him. The buzzer is not just about to go off, and when he rejected the other deal he basically stated he will play for the arb money. The Sox most likely won't go to arb with him, just sign him to a 1 year deal for 2011 and maybe they will revisit an extension then. Buerhle, Dye, they waited until 2 months before their contracts ran out before they extended them. Konerko came back once after they let his contract expire. There is no reason to think Danks signing an extension is hopeless.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Usually they don't extend pitchers with 3 years left under team control. They tried to buy out the arb years and 1 FA year like with Floyd, but it didn't work. That doesn't mean he will not sign an extension at any time.Why I am obssessed is because of your obsession with me because I state to win in 2011, the Sox cannot trade John Danks.

 

He is still under control for 2 more seasons. They have 2 years to extend him. The buzzer is not just about to go off, and when he rejected the other deal he basically stated he will play for the arb money. The Sox most likely won't go to arb with him, just sign him to a 1 year deal for 2011 and maybe they will revisit an extension then. Buerhle, Dye, they waited until 2 months before their contracts ran out before they extended them. Konerko came back once after they let his contract expire. There is no reason to think Danks signing an extension is hopeless.

 

So you don't think Danks for Fielder would help the Sox win more in 2011?

[Dick Allen]

So you don't think Danks for Fielder would help the Sox win more in 2011?

No. Pitching wins. I wouldn't mind Fielder for a season, but not for the Sox best pitcher. Besides, since he only has 1 year left on his contract, shouldn't is trade value be much lower than last offseason and at the deadline? That's the formula used by you trade Danks guys. Considering Buerhle, Jackson and Peavy all expire either before or at the same time as Danks, maybe KW should unload them all. Marquez could pitch opening day.

 

Konerko had a better year than Fielder in 2010 so unless Prince picked it up, the Sox would be weaker offensively and defensively at 1B in 2011 than 2010 and be out a sweet starting pitcher. Of course, Prince may hit 50 homers in 2011.

 

It will be interesting to see how much Fielder gets in arb. You would figure at least $13 million. He had an .871 OPS last year. Putting things in perspective, Jim Thome's worst OPS with the White Sox was .864.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Bruce_Blixton]

No. Pitching wins. I wouldn't mind Fielder for a season, but not for the Sox best pitcher. Besides, since he only has 1 year left on his contract, shouldn't is trade value be much lower than last offseason and at the deadline? That's the formula used by you trade Danks guys. Considering Buerhle, Jackson and Peavy all expire either before or at the same time as Danks, maybe KW should unload them all. Marquez could pitch opening day.

 

Konerko had a better year than Fielder in 2010 so unless Prince picked it up, the Sox would be weaker offensively and defensively at 1B in 2011 than 2010 and be out a sweet starting pitcher. Of course, Prince may hit 50 homers in 2011.

 

It will be interesting to see how much Fielder gets in arb. You would figure at least $13 million. He had an .871 OPS last year. Putting things in perspective, Jim Thome's worst OPS with the White Sox was .864.

 

You're using a straw man argument, "if a player only has two years left on his contract then you trade Danks guys want to trade them." i don't think any of us that are considering trading Danks think that we should trade everyone at the end if their contract. We've constantly been saying that Danks is probably close to his peak trading value due to his arbitration clock. I've tried to make my case as clear as possible, we should look into trading Danks since he's not likely to re-sign with us.

 

I know that everyone wants Jon to stay here forever but the bottomline is that this is still a business and Kenny does have a budget (whether that budget is fair is a whole different debate).

[SoxAce]

I'm actually impressed with the thought from you Blixton. I didn't think many here knew about Engel Beltre yet alone Profar

and Font. (who I didn't even know) You should post more often in the minor league thread on the future sox board. Always good to have a legitimate poster who knows about prospects and evaluations. Wouldn't mind knowing if theres any guys in the minors who know/played with or against.

 

And other than DA, I've been very adamant on trading Danks. I'd rather give up Floyd or Buehrle. That's how highly I think of him.

Edited October 22, 2010 by J.Reedfan8