caulfield12 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-h...vepreview102510 Dunn, of course....could be back in play if we actually had any money to spend. Seems pretty likely that the Tigers are going to be another force to be reckoned with this off-season. Can't imagine the Sox making a $10 million + closer out of Soriano...it has never been their style, with the one year exception of the Koch trade. No mention of Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) I want all 3 + Kong. But in reality, I see none of those happening. Soriano would cost a pick while being insanely expensive, we don't have the bullets for Fielder without Hudson (who Milwaukee wouldn't take until he was in the NL anyway), and Kemp is a right handed, bad defensive right fielder, which I hope we try to get away from. Edited October 27, 2010 by Quinarvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 27, 2010 Author Share Posted October 27, 2010 Yeah, the only one you see as being remotely realistic is Kemp, simply because he's the typical "buy low/temporarily undervalued" player that KW usually goes after...except the problem is that the chemistry/mix is always questionable when you don't have enough homegrown players who came up learning the same system or style like the Twins/Rays/Rangers now have in place. It's logical enough to imagine Quentin at DH, Viciedo at 1B and Kemp in RF...which means it's probably unlikely to transpire. Except for that small little factor of not having the type of players in our minor league system capable of fetching a Kemp or Upton, even at reduced rates. That's also where you have to start bringing Danks or Floyd into conversations...and also where you give up the one position of strength you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 05:12 AM) It's logical enough to imagine Quentin at DH, Viciedo at 1B and Kemp in RF...which means it's probably unlikely to transpire. Except for that small little factor of not having the type of players in our minor league system capable of fetching a Kemp or Upton, even at reduced rates. The big problem with that as written is that it's vastly RH heavy. Even though Quentin has tended to hit righties better than lefties, there's still zero balance to the middle of that order. Then you throw in Alexei and Beckham, maybe a Morel sighting...now Juan Pierre is our only obvious LH bat even on a good day unless we bring (back) a LH catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Detroit a force? I really doubt it. They have been heading downhill, they have far less money to spend than the Sox do, and I don't see them turning things around yet. Them and Cleveland are falling down, not coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 08:41 AM) Detroit a force? I really doubt it. They have been heading downhill, they have far less money to spend than the Sox do, and I don't see them turning things around yet. Them and Cleveland are falling down, not coming up. I can see how it might be the case that they have far less money to spend than the Sox do...but I can also argue the reverse. Detroit's salary has been well above that of the Sox the last couple seasons, and they have enormous bad contracts coming off the books this season (Ordonez, Bonderman, Willis). If Detroit goes into next season at the same salary level they started this season with, they'll be competing with the Yankees for both Lee and Crawford. I don't know how you keep a $130 million payroll in Detroit these days...but they've averaged over $125 the last 3 years. They might well have a fortune to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 07:46 AM) I can see how it might be the case that they have far less money to spend than the Sox do...but I can also argue the reverse. Detroit's salary has been well above that of the Sox the last couple seasons, and they have enormous bad contracts coming off the books this season (Ordonez, Bonderman, Willis). If Detroit goes into next season at the same salary level they started this season with, they'll be competing with the Yankees for both Lee and Crawford. I don't know how you keep a $130 million payroll in Detroit these days...but they've averaged over $125 the last 3 years. They might well have a fortune to spend. Its been made clear for the past couple years, Detroit's season ticket holder base has collapsed in an epic way, and they are cutting, cutting, cutting. They aren't spending that kind of money for 2011, I'll bet the farm on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 To me it's simple, if we re-sign Konerko, we will be bargain shopping the rest of our need positions. If we lose Konerko, we will get a dabble with some big names, but lose out when we offer half of another team and then be forced to bargain shop. Regardless, we will be bargain shopping, but whether it's be force or choice remains to be seen. I don't feel like we need a huge overhaul as well, but we need about 4-5 solid players to get back to a playoff team. Obviously power at 1st base, two relievers and some two solid bench additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 08:47 AM) Its been made clear for the past couple years, Detroit's season ticket holder base has collapsed in an epic way, and they are cutting, cutting, cutting. They aren't spending that kind of money for 2011, I'll bet the farm on that. Well, their commitments right now are about $55 million according to Cot's. They could cut back significantly and still find room for some big signings. Having a couple guys really step up last year (Boesch, Jackson, Scherzer) could make things a lot easier for them. They definitely need pitching help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Mike Ilitch is one of the richest Americans, worth nearly 2 billion. The Tigers have the ammo if they choose to use it, they do not have "far less" to spend than the White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:14 AM) Mike Ilitch is one of the richest Americans, worth nearly 2 billion. The Tigers have the ammo if they choose to use it, they do not have "far less" to spend than the White Sox Exactly. Illitch will spend as much as his heart desires, he always has. The only question is will his recent purchase of the Pistons affect his spending. I say probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 03:17 AM) http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-h...vepreview102510 Dunn, of course....could be back in play if we actually had any money to spend. The Sox have plenty of money to spend. Especially if PK is off the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I am familiar with Kemp being a bad defensive CF'er, but not really clear on why he is being called bad in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 ESPN the Mag mentioned Soriano as a White Sox target as well. All I can say is, yes please on all three of these fellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 07:52 AM) To me it's simple, if we re-sign Konerko, we will be bargain shopping the rest of our need positions. If we lose Konerko, we will get a dabble with some big names, but lose out when we offer half of another team and then be forced to bargain shop. Regardless, we will be bargain shopping, but whether it's be force or choice remains to be seen. I don't feel like we need a huge overhaul as well, but we need about 4-5 solid players to get back to a playoff team. Obviously power at 1st base, two relievers and some two solid bench additions. I agree with everything you said, except I do think we need an overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:19 AM) Exactly. Illitch will spend as much as his heart desires, he always has. The only question is will his recent purchase of the Pistons affect his spending. I say probably not. He owns the Tigers, Pistons, and Red Wings? Wow, that's crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:59 AM) He owns the Tigers, Pistons, and Red Wings? Wow, that's crazy. And he is probably losing assloads of money on two of the three. I'd bet at least $50 million for the last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:34 AM) The Sox have plenty of money to spend. Especially if PK is off the books. Unless we move one of our higher paid players in a trade, this isn't really the case. The Sox policy is well-known, put into the team what was gained the previous year. We should expect '11 salary to remain similar to '10 ($103M) after a decline in attendance. I'll fill in the '11 roster as of today with salaries SP - Peavy 16 SP - Buehrle 14 SP - Jackson 8.75 SP - Danks 6.5 (arb estimate) SP - Floyd 5 C - empty 1B - empty 2B - Beckham 0.5 SS - Ramirez 1.225 3B - Morel 0.3 LF - Pierre 5 (after cash from LA) CF - Rios 12.5 RF - empty DH - empty BP - Thornton 3 BP - Santos 0.4 BP - Sale 0.3 BP - Linebrink 5.5 BP - empty BP - emtpy BP - empty BN - Castro 1.2 BN - Teahen 4.75 BN - empty BN - empty 2.25 commitment to Viciedo Total = $87M This leaves us less than $20M to fill starting catcher, 1B, DH, RF, three pen spots, and two bench spots. That's an average of $2M/year per remaining roster spot. If you tender a contract to Quentin, who get $5M in his 2nd-year arbitration raise, then you have less than $15M for 8 remaining spots, or less than $2M/year per remaining roster spot. KW is definitely in a tough spot this offseason given how many roster spots we have to fill and our budget constraints. We do not have plenty of money to spend, we have plenty of spots to fill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 04:32 PM) Unless we move one of our higher paid players in a trade, this isn't really the case. The Sox policy is well-known, put into the team what was gained the previous year. We should expect '11 salary to remain similar to '10 ($103M) after a decline in attendance. I'll fill in the '11 roster as of today with salaries SP - Peavy 16 SP - Buehrle 14 SP - Jackson 8.75 SP - Danks 6.5 (arb estimate) SP - Floyd 5 C - empty 1B - empty 2B - Beckham 0.5 SS - Ramirez 1.225 3B - Morel 0.3 LF - Pierre 5 (after cash from LA) CF - Rios 12.5 RF - empty DH - empty BP - Thornton 3 BP - Santos 0.4 BP - Sale 0.3 BP - Linebrink 5.5 BP - empty BP - emtpy BP - empty BN - Castro 1.2 BN - Teahen 4.75 BN - empty BN - empty 2.25 commitment to Viciedo Total = $87M This leaves us less than $20M to fill starting catcher, 1B, DH, RF, three pen spots, and two bench spots. That's an average of $2M/year per remaining roster spot. If you tender a contract to Quentin, who get $5M in his 2nd-year arbitration raise, then you have less than $15M for 8 remaining spots, or less than $2M/year per remaining roster spot. KW is definitely in a tough spot this offseason given how many roster spots we have to fill and our budget constraints. We do not have plenty of money to spend, we have plenty of spots to fill He could back load contracts. Buehrle is coming off the books next year and Peavy the following. That's about 1/3 of our payroll. This is the approach the government would make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 10:32 AM) Unless we move one of our higher paid players in a trade, this isn't really the case. The Sox policy is well-known, put into the team what was gained the previous year. We should expect '11 salary to remain similar to '10 ($103M) after a decline in attendance. I'll fill in the '11 roster as of today with salaries SP - Peavy 16 SP - Buehrle 14 SP - Jackson 8.75 SP - Danks 6.5 (arb estimate) SP - Floyd 5 C - empty 1B - empty 2B - Beckham 0.5 SS - Ramirez 1.225 3B - Morel 0.3 LF - Pierre 5 (after cash from LA) CF - Rios 12.5 RF - empty DH - empty BP - Thornton 3 BP - Santos 0.4 BP - Sale 0.3 BP - Linebrink 5.5 BP - empty BP - emtpy BP - empty BN - Castro 1.2 BN - Teahen 4.75 BN - empty BN - empty 2.25 commitment to Viciedo Total = $87M This leaves us less than $20M to fill starting catcher, 1B, DH, RF, three pen spots, and two bench spots. That's an average of $2M/year per remaining roster spot. If you tender a contract to Quentin, who get $5M in his 2nd-year arbitration raise, then you have less than $15M for 8 remaining spots, or less than $2M/year per remaining roster spot. KW is definitely in a tough spot this offseason given how many roster spots we have to fill and our budget constraints. We do not have plenty of money to spend, we have plenty of spots to fill Great post to sum it up! If the Sox bring back Konerko at about $11-12mil, Quentin at $5 mil and Pierzynski at $3-4 mil, all of which I think they'd like to do, that leaves almost literally nothing to spend anywhere else. So either a.) one of those three players aren't coming back, b.) someone else with a significant contract is traded (Danks, Floyd, etc.) or c.) this team won't improve much on paper for 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Severely backloading a contract is a risky practice because we don't know exactly what our financial situation will be 2-3 years from now. And yes, you have Buehrle's 14M coming off the books in 2012, but we of course will have more holes to fill at that time as well. As it stands now, in 2012 we have $42M committed to just four roster spots between Peavy, Rios, Floyd, and Teahen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 10:32 AM) Unless we move one of our higher paid players in a trade, this isn't really the case. The Sox policy is well-known, put into the team what was gained the previous year. We should expect '11 salary to remain similar to '10 ($103M) after a decline in attendance. I'll fill in the '11 roster as of today with salaries SP - Peavy 16 SP - Buehrle 14 SP - Jackson 8.75 SP - Danks 6.5 (arb estimate) SP - Floyd 5 C - empty 1B - empty 2B - Beckham 0.5 SS - Ramirez 1.225 3B - Morel 0.3 LF - Pierre 5 (after cash from LA) CF - Rios 12.5 RF - empty DH - empty BP - Thornton 3 BP - Santos 0.4 BP - Sale 0.3 BP - Linebrink 5.5 BP - empty BP - emtpy BP - empty BN - Castro 1.2 BN - Teahen 4.75 BN - empty BN - empty 2.25 commitment to Viciedo Total = $87M This leaves us less than $20M to fill starting catcher, 1B, DH, RF, three pen spots, and two bench spots. That's an average of $2M/year per remaining roster spot. If you tender a contract to Quentin, who get $5M in his 2nd-year arbitration raise, then you have less than $15M for 8 remaining spots, or less than $2M/year per remaining roster spot. KW is definitely in a tough spot this offseason given how many roster spots we have to fill and our budget constraints. We do not have plenty of money to spend, we have plenty of spots to fill How very depressing. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 10:17 AM) And he is probably losing assloads of money on two of the three. I'd bet at least $50 million for the last season. He's a billionaire and 81-years-old. I don't think that would even matter to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:14 AM) Mike Ilitch is one of the richest Americans, worth nearly 2 billion. The Tigers have the ammo if they choose to use it, they do not have "far less" to spend than the White Sox QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 09:19 AM) Exactly. Illitch will spend as much as his heart desires, he always has. The only question is will his recent purchase of the Pistons affect his spending. I say probably not. People here tend to think that a person's high net worth means that they can, or will, spend a ton of money. First of all, a big part of Illitch's net worth is tied up in corporations - and therefore not highly liquid, or even usable in the way you describe. Second, if you read articles the past year or two, the Tigers have made clear they are losing more and more money on the Tigers and won't be spending tons of money. Being rich doesn't mean you have a ton of money to spend, and even if you do, you may not want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) People here tend to think that a person's high net worth means that they can, or will, spend a ton of money. First of all, a big part of Illitch's net worth is tied up in corporations - and therefore not highly liquid, or even usable in the way you describe. Second, if you read articles the past year or two, the Tigers have made clear they are losing more and more money on the Tigers and won't be spending tons of money. Being rich doesn't mean you have a ton of money to spend, and even if you do, you may not want to. The question is gonna be how they define tons of money. They could legitimately cull $30 million from their payroll next year and still make winning offers on Crawford, Lee, and enough filler to round out a roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 27, 2010 -> 12:04 PM) The question is gonna be how they define tons of money. They could legitimately cull $30 million from their payroll next year and still make winning offers on Crawford, Lee, and enough filler to round out a roster. I'd be shocked if they add the $45M in payroll you are suggesting. I could be wrong, we'll see in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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