Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 01:36 PM) Outside of 5 pitchers and 1 catcher....doesn't that basically describe the entire San Francisco Giants lineup? Yet when I suggested 2nd tier free agents to improve the White Sox offense instead of trading John Danks, you ripped me for the thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) Yet when I suggested 2nd tier free agents to improve the White Sox offense instead of trading John Danks, you ripped me for the thought. Because the Giants offense is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) Because the Giants offense is bad. But they are in the WS, and Texas picked up Vlad off the scrap heap, and they are in the WS. Pitching wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) I'm not about to spend $5.5 million on Carlos Quentin to have him face lefties when, in fact, he hits lefties worse than he does righties. Good point, but it's not like Quentin is going to play 162 games anyway. Berkman would find plenty of at bats at DH and (back up) 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 09:31 AM) Good point, but it's not like Quentin is going to play 162 games anyway. Berkman would find plenty of at bats at DH and (back up) 1B. Exactly. This year when the anti-Thome people refused to ever admit there was even the slightest possiblility the Sox made a mistake by not bringing him back, one thing they pointed to was Konerko's big season and how the extra time at DH was the huge reason. He DH'd 5 more times in 2010 than 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2010 -> 08:12 PM) But they are in the WS, and Texas picked up Vlad off the scrap heap, and they are in the WS. Pitching wins. I'd argue Vlad wasn't really picked up off the scrap heap, he got $6.5M guaranteed with another $900K in incentives, and $9M mutual option for 2011. Scraps don't get that much money. And the Giants got away with that lineup playing in the NL. You need more pop to compete in the AL. Pitching wins, but you need an offense too. For the last three years, the AL leader in fewest runs allowed per game has not made the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (3E8 @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 10:48 AM) I'd argue Vlad wasn't really picked up off the scrap heap, he got $6.5M guaranteed with another $900K in incentives, and $9M mutual option for 2011. Scraps don't get that much money. And the Giants got away with that lineup playing in the NL. You need more pop to compete in the AL. Pitching wins, but you need an offense too. For the last three years, the AL leader in fewest runs allowed per game has not made the playoffs I probably exaggerated a bit when I used scrap heap. The term I have been using is 2nd tier free agents. The White Sox offense, even without a DH, was ranked in the top half of most categories in 2010. (Praise to Walker) Beckham is going to be better. Ramirez will be about the same most likely, as will Pierre. Rios probably drops off a little. I think Quentin can hit. Whoever plays first even if Paulie comes back will probably be a drop off from the 2010 Konerko. Get a DH who can produce some runs, and a 3rd baseman, because I don't think Morel is ready to hit. Add a decent catcher, if not AJ, who I think its a mistake not to re-sign, then a guy like Buck, and your offense should be pretty decent. Decent enough to win it all if Peavy comes back 100% and everyone pitches up to their capabliities. The problem is every year some will surprise and some will dissappoint. You have to keep your better players from the later.I . There is enough offense if you sign the correct 2nd tier free agents. There is no need to spend $100 million on Carl Crawford, who, while a real nice player, will never live up to the contract he signs. There is no need to make you starting rotation a gigantic question mark by trading John Danks. I actually think the Sox are sitting pretty for 2011 with just a couple of nice moves. As bad as things seemed this year, and knowing Sept. probably doesn't play out exactly as it did if the race was closer, as bad as the Sox were against Cleveland and KC, and Detroit, if they were .500 against Minnesota, they still would have won the division. Cleveland and KC aren't good and won't be good. Detroit has a lot of holes and seems to be willing to spend money, but they still have to convince players to come to Detroit. Minnesota is due for a let down. This isn't the AL East where the immediate future would seem hopeless. Edited October 31, 2010 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 12:20 PM) I probably exaggerated a bit when I used scrap heap. The term I have been using is 2nd tier free agents. The White Sox offense, even without a DH, was ranked in the top half of most categories in 2010. (Praise to Walker) Beckham is going to be better. Ramirez will be about the same most likely, as will Pierre. Rios probably drops off a little. I think Quentin can hit. Whoever plays first even if Paulie comes back will probably be a drop off from the 2010 Konerko. Get a DH who can produce some runs, and a 3rd baseman, because I don't think Morel is ready to hit. Add a decent catcher, if not AJ, who I think its a mistake not to re-sign, then a guy like Buck, and your offense should be pretty decent. Decent enough to win it all if Peavy comes back 100% and everyone pitches up to their capabliities. The problem is every year some will surprise and some will dissappoint. You have to keep your better players from the later.I . There is enough offense if you sign the correct 2nd tier free agents. There is no need to spend $100 million on Carl Crawford, who, while a real nice player, will never live up to the contract he signs. There is no need to make you starting rotation a gigantic question mark by trading John Danks. I actually think the Sox are sitting pretty for 2011 with just a couple of nice moves. As bad as things seemed this year, and knowing Sept. probably doesn't play out exactly as it did if the race was closer, as bad as the Sox were against Cleveland and KC, and Detroit, if they were .500 against Minnesota, they still would have won the division. Cleveland and KC aren't good and won't be good. Detroit has a lot of holes and seems to be willing to spend money, but they still have to convince players to come to Detroit. Minnesota is due for a let down. This isn't the AL East where the immediate future would seem hopeless. On principle, I actually kind of like the concept here...because it's basically tantamount to "Retrying the 2010 lineup without pretending that we don't need run production from the DH spot". If you believe, like I do, that we were at least ok in overall offense despite having Beckham, Quentin, and AJ underperforming, Konerko basically being the only starter who you can legitimately say totally overperformed, and the DH position being an absolute joke...fixing that problem and just allowing for regression to normal performance should put together a solid O. However...there's a couple flaws. First, KW isn't going to just replay the season. That's just not his style. Second, there's plenty of reason to expect that Konerko (and/or Rios) won't repeat their 2010 performance, so that's stuff you have to make up. Third...we really got strong bench performance last year out of Jones and Castro, which isn't likely to be repeated. And most importantly...the key guy we'd hope to improve, Carlos, is still as big of a question mark as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2010 -> 11:57 AM) On principle, I actually kind of like the concept here...because it's basically tantamount to "Retrying the 2010 lineup without pretending that we don't need run production from the DH spot". If you believe, like I do, that we were at least ok in overall offense despite having Beckham, Quentin, and AJ underperforming, Konerko basically being the only starter who you can legitimately say totally overperformed, and the DH position being an absolute joke...fixing that problem and just allowing for regression to normal performance should put together a solid O. However...there's a couple flaws. First, KW isn't going to just replay the season. That's just not his style. Second, there's plenty of reason to expect that Konerko (and/or Rios) won't repeat their 2010 performance, so that's stuff you have to make up. Third...we really got strong bench performance last year out of Jones and Castro, which isn't likely to be repeated. And most importantly...the key guy we'd hope to improve, Carlos, is still as big of a question mark as you can get. He also can't because he has too much money committed to too few players next season. I would agree that we would be in a great position for next year if we didn't need to replace our starting first baseman, catcher, designated hitter, closer, primary right-handed set up man, potentially our third baseman, the bench, and any remaining bullpen spots with about $15 million. The only place with any semblance of depth right now is our starting rotation, and if you actually want to get value back in a trade you need to trade Danks or Floyd. Peavy and Buehrle would be straight salary dumps, and Jackson would get you less in a trade now than what you gave up for him. I'm not saying that it's impossible to field a good team next year. It's just going to be very hard to actually improve upon our roster with so little to work with in terms of money and valuable prospects. Let's hope KW can break his slump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Guy can't stay off the DL as a DH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 12:54 AM) Guy can't stay off the DL as a DH... Niether could Pat Burrell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Please remove this thread <_ src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_smilies2_nono.gif" alt=":nono"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 07:37 AM) Niether could Pat Burrell. uh, Pat Burrell has atleast 437 plate appearances in every year he's played. Nick Johnson's done that 4 times in his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 3, 2010 -> 11:19 PM) uh, Pat Burrell has atleast 437 plate appearances in every year he's played. Nick Johnson's done that 4 times in his entire career. And the numbers he put up in Tampa...the Kotsay-like .221 average and sub .700 OPS in 2009...kinda suggest some issues don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 07:56 AM) And the numbers he put up in Tampa...the Kotsay-like .221 average and sub .700 OPS in 2009...kinda suggest some issues don't you think? That he doesn't like DHing or he didn't adjust to playing in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 10:30 AM) That he doesn't like DHing or he didn't adjust to playing in the AL. Or that he was suffering from a number of nagging injuries despite playing DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Looks like Jim Hendry is after Nick Johnson to play 1B for the Cubs. Thats about the caliber of GM I would expect to sign this guy to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) Looks like Jim Hendry is after Nick Johnson to play 1B for the Cubs. Thats about the caliber of GM I would expect to sign this guy to start. If its Hendry, I guarantee its a minimum 3-year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 02:10 PM) Looks like Jim Hendry is after Nick Johnson to play 1B for the Cubs. Thats about the caliber of GM I would expect to sign this guy to start. I think it would be great if an NL team signed Johnson to play 1b. It would take some a potential 1b landing spot off of the map and leave us competing with fewer teams for the remaining 1b/Dh types on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) Looks like Jim Hendry is after Nick Johnson to play 1B for the Cubs. Thats about the caliber of GM I would expect to sign this guy to start. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) Looks like Jim Hendry is after Nick Johnson to play 1B for the Cubs. Thats about the caliber of GM I would expect to sign this guy to start. If he's healthy what's the difference signing him this year or last except this year will be much cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 06:31 PM) If he's healthy what's the difference signing him this year or last except this year will be much cheaper? The team that was signing him last year had no interest in having him play the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 05:43 PM) The team that was signing him last year had no interest in having him play the field. He would have played there a little. There were many on this board thinking KW should sign him, and NOT as a full time DH, but part of the rotating DH, and KW almost did sign him. The guy is going to get hurt whether he's playing the field or DHing or just taking his dog for a walk. Hendry is stupid for signing him, but if its for minimal money is it any dumber than any other GM who traded for him or signed him or offered him even more cash? Its weird, when the Cubs don't win its the GM's fault. When the Sox don't win, its on the hitting coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 5, 2010 -> 06:53 PM) He would have played there a little. There were many on this board thinking KW should sign him, and NOT as a full time DH, but part of the rotating DH, and KW almost did sign him. The guy is going to get hurt whether he's playing the field or DHing or just taking his dog for a walk. Hendry is stupid for signing him, but if its for minimal money is it any dumber than any other GM who traded for him or signed him or offered him even more cash? Its weird, when the Cubs don't win its the GM's fault. When the Sox don't win, its on the hitting coach. Which is of course why the Cubs replaced their hitting coach last year. Because of Greg Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2010 -> 09:08 AM) Which is of course why the Cubs replaced their hitting coach last year. Because of Greg Walker. Using Soxtalk logic, Rudy Jaramillo is good for a lot of wins. Its funny the team he left went to the WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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