This is ridiculous...

[fathom]

I really hope this isn't true.

[whitesoxfan101]

I really hope this isn't true.

 

Why do you say that?

[fathom]

Why do you say that?

 

Cause it would just make me hate the decision to bring back Ozzie for another year even more.

[joeynach]

Uh what the f***?

 

Nice dream world there, sun times.

 

What a pipe dream, this would have been a steal for KW and led him all the way to the White House as president.

[Brian]

If this happened, I would of filled the cup.

[Soxfest]

Chris De Luca is now reporting the Brewers will send over Prince Fielder in exchange for Joey Cora

 

Please!

[TheBigHurt]

Whether it's remotely true or not, what does this even being rumored tell you about the pitiful reputation of our manager? Really, in both managing AND PR/Office/family publicity, Ozzie has been a train wreck this season.

[greg775]

Whether it's remotely true or not, what does this even being rumored tell you about the pitiful reputation of our manager? Really, in both managing AND PR/Office/family publicity, Ozzie has been a train wreck this season.

 

I disagree on many counts. This rumor says nothing bad about Oz's reputation as a manager. Somebody on this board was ragging on Ron Washington after Game 2. Gardenhire was fried after the Twinks' postseason faceplant. Just one manager will do a good job in the eyes of the fans this season: the WS winning manager. I think Oz is a solid B grade to B-plus manager with the capability of being an A in any given season like the 05 postseason.

Edited October 30, 2010 by greg775

[TheBigHurt]

I disagree on many counts. This rumor says nothing bad about Oz's reputation as a manager. Somebody on this board was ragging on Ron Washington after Game 2. Gardenhire was fried after the Twinks' postseason faceplant. Just one manager will do a good job in the eyes of the fans this season: the WS winning manager. I think Oz is a solid B grade to B-plus manager with the capability of being an A in any given season like the 05 postseason.

 

Yeah, the prospect of a MANAGER being offered in a trade says nothing bad about his reputation.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, the prospect of a MANAGER being offered in a trade says nothing bad about his reputation.

 

You're thought process is wrong here, pretty much the complete opposite of what it should be. If a manager is (truly) being offered in a trade, it speaks volumes about his reputation around the league and how highly respected he is amongst his peers.

 

The last manager to be traded was Lou Piniella. Are you going to tell me that Piniella was not highly thought of around the game when he was traded to the Devil Rays?

[southsider2k5]

Whether it's remotely true or not, what does this even being rumored tell you about the pitiful reputation of our manager? Really, in both managing AND PR/Office/family publicity, Ozzie has been a train wreck this season.

 

A team comes not only asking about him, but supposedly offering a huge top prospect and you think that reflects BADLY on him? No disrespect, but you got things really backwards here.

[Balta1701]

A team comes not only asking about him, but supposedly offering a huge top prospect and you think that reflects BADLY on him? No disrespect, but you got things really backwards here.

Yeah. This would mean that Ozzie Guillen falls in the top 5 of Baseball America's prospect list.

[ScottyDo]

LMAO! To all of it!

[TheBigHurt]

You're thought process is wrong here, pretty much the complete opposite of what it should be. If a manager is (truly) being offered in a trade, it speaks volumes about his reputation around the league and how highly respected he is amongst his peers.

 

The last manager to be traded was Lou Piniella. Are you going to tell me that Piniella was not highly thought of around the game when he was traded to the Devil Rays?

 

 

A team comes not only asking about him, but supposedly offering a huge top prospect and you think that reflects BADLY on him? No disrespect, but you got things really backwards here.

 

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I'm not necessarily saying it makes him look bad per se, but considering everything that happened this year and how much in the hot seat Ozzie was, from a different perspective this could look embarrassing.

[greg775]

I agree we have to agree to disagree, but what about another team WANTING Ozzie is embarrassing? Don't get your point of view here. Embarrassing that the Sox would listen? Maybe, but teams listen to all sorts of stuff.

[Dick Allen]

Asking for compensation for a manager with time still left on his contract really isn't unique. The Sun Times made it seem like Stanton was on the table for Ozzie, which apparently wasn't true. The Marlins according to Ozzie, were given permission to speak with him but never did. A lot of people think the Ozzie/KW feud will still end badly and one thing I read was the Marlins may be one of the parties. There's no question Ozzie would appeal to certain teams from a PR standpoint and with the Latin community in Miami, Ozzie probably could sell a lot of tickets.

 

The bottom line is if the Sox were offered Stanton for Ozzie and they didn't put Ozzie on JR's jet to Miami, they are not too bright. It just was never available.

[TheBigHurt]

I agree we have to agree to disagree, but what about another team WANTING Ozzie is embarrassing? Don't get your point of view here. Embarrassing that the Sox would listen? Maybe, but teams listen to all sorts of stuff.

 

Clearly my point sailed right over your head. I didn't say someone else wanting him was embarrassing (to think that shows you're thinking in a very biased way), I said that it's kind of embarrassing we're apparently looking to trade our manager after a clusterf*** season of poor managing, poor pr/office relations and insane family outbursts/issues. So much has gone on between Ozzie/Ozzie's family and KW this year that I almost have to relate this to that in some small way at least. And I think it would be foolish not to consider that as a possibility.

Edited October 30, 2010 by TheBigHurt

[witesoxfan]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I'm not necessarily saying it makes him look bad per se, but considering everything that happened this year and how much in the hot seat Ozzie was, from a different perspective this could look embarrassing.

I don't think you can agree to disagree. That is like agreeing to disagree that you need to stop at red lights.

 

Seriously, the only precedent available for managers and coaches being traded is that the acquiring team is under the impression that said coach is pretty damn good. Bad coaches are easy to fire and hire and teams don't want to trade for managers they believe will be fired soon or are poor. They will trade for managers that they believe will take them to the next level.

Edited October 30, 2010 by witesoxfan

[southsider2k5]

Clearly my point sailed right over your head. I didn't say someone else wanting him was embarrassing (to think that shows you're thinking in a very biased way), I said that it's kind of embarrassing we're apparently looking to trade our manager after a clusterf*** season of poor managing, poor pr/office relations and insane family outbursts/issues. So much has gone on between Ozzie/Ozzie's family and KW this year that I almost have to relate this to that in some small way at least. And I think it would be foolish not to consider that as a possibility.

 

We didn't look to trade him. Florida asked for permission to talk to him, and didn't. They also supposedly had an offer on the table to give us Stanton for Guillen. Again, we didn't. We didn't look to trade Ozzie. The Marlins came to us. Your whole premise is wrong. The point sailed over everyone's head because it was not based in "fact".

[southsider2k5]

Asking for compensation for a manager with time still left on his contract really isn't unique. The Sun Times made it seem like Stanton was on the table for Ozzie, which apparently wasn't true. The Marlins according to Ozzie, were given permission to speak with him but never did. A lot of people think the Ozzie/KW feud will still end badly and one thing I read was the Marlins may be one of the parties. There's no question Ozzie would appeal to certain teams from a PR standpoint and with the Latin community in Miami, Ozzie probably could sell a lot of tickets.

 

The bottom line is if the Sox were offered Stanton for Ozzie and they didn't put Ozzie on JR's jet to Miami, they are not too bright. It just was never available.

 

Meh, if Hanley can't sell tickets down there, I doubt Ozzie will.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Chris Rose just asked Ozzie about this trade in the WS Pregame.....

 

Ozzie says "Really? I didn't think I was that good anymore".

 

lol. Good answer Oz.

[TheBigHurt]

I don't think you can agree to disagree. That is like agreeing to disagree that you need to stop at red lights.

 

Seriously, the only precedent available for managers and coaches being traded is that the acquiring team is under the impression that said coach is pretty damn good. Bad coaches are easy to fire and hire and teams don't want to trade for managers they believe will be fired soon or are poor. They will trade for managers that they believe will take them to the next level.

 

So by that logic, no team that ever wants someone mistakenly thinks they are worth more than what they will give up? So anyone wanting someone and thinking they are good or worth something valuable is never wrong? That basically equates to thinking there's no such thing as a bad trade.

 

Yeah, someone try telling me any of that is true.

Edited October 31, 2010 by TheBigHurt

[LittleHurt05]

Now I realize why I am gonna pay the extra money for Tribune delivery

 

Sun Times = National Enquirer

[witesoxfan]

So by that logic, no team that ever wants someone mistakenly thinks they are worth more than what they will give up? So anyone wanting someone and thinking they are good or worth something valuable is never wrong? That basically equates to thinking there's no such thing as a bad trade.

 

Yeah, someone try telling me any of that is true.

 

You have a banana. Norberto has pudding. You generally prefer pudding to bananas. Norberto prefers bananas to pudding. You trade your banana for Norberto's pudding. You believe you have improved yourself through this trade, and Norberto believes the same. You do not know if you have improved yourself - hence, the reasoning behind a trade. You see that the pudding is tapioca, and nobody likes tapioca pudding, not even people who claim to like it.

 

Why would a team make a trade that they believed they lost the second they made it? When you go shopping, would you buy spoiled bread that is expensive or non-spoiled bread that is cheap? Obviously, the non-spoiled bread, because you believe it will improve yourself. Turns out that mold on the bread was penicillin, you have a major respiratory infection, and the cheap bread you bought actually contains a meningitis bacteria, and you lose the ability to lose your legs due to the ingestion of that bread.

 

Initially, you believed you had made a good trade of money for product, but instead you made a poor one and did not know it.

 

How is this hard to understand?

 

---

 

Are you just trying to justify a point that you know was wrong and now you don't want to admit a mistake? No matter your feelings about Ozzie Guillen, if the Marlins tried to trade for him, then he has value. If Ozzie Guillen were viewed as a mediocre or bad manager around the game, such as Ned Yost, the Marlins would not ask to talk to him. Is that hard to understand?

 

---

 

I am not arguing whether he is a good manager or not - I believe he is a terrible in-game manager who gets outmanaged about 75% of the time and that his non-game skills have eroded due to family issues - but instead about his value. If the Marlins asked to talk to him about their manager position, then, according to the precedent set, he is a well respected manager. They would not ask to talk to him if they believed he was a bad manager. Is that really that hard to understand?

Edited October 31, 2010 by witesoxfan

[southsider2k5]

You have a banana. Norberto has pudding. You generally prefer pudding to bananas. Norberto prefers bananas to pudding. You trade your banana for Norberto's pudding. You believe you have improved yourself through this trade, and Norberto believes the same. You do not know if you have improved yourself - hence, the reasoning behind a trade. You see that the pudding is tapioca, and nobody likes tapioca pudding, not even people who claim to like it.

 

Why would a team make a trade that they believed they lost the second they made it? When you go shopping, would you buy spoiled bread that is expensive or non-spoiled bread that is cheap? Obviously, the non-spoiled bread, because you believe it will improve yourself. Turns out that mold on the bread was penicillin, you have a major respiratory infection, and the cheap bread you bought actually contains a meningitis bacteria, and you lose the ability to lose your legs due to the ingestion of that bread.

 

Initially, you believed you had made a good trade of money for product, but instead you made a poor one and did not know it.

 

How is this hard to understand?

 

---

 

Are you just trying to justify a point that you know was wrong and now you don't want to admit a mistake? No matter your feelings about Ozzie Guillen, if the Marlins tried to trade for him, then he has value. If Ozzie Guillen were viewed as a mediocre or bad manager around the game, such as Ned Yost, the Marlins would not ask to talk to him. Is that hard to understand?

 

---

 

I am not arguing whether he is a good manager or not - I believe he is a terrible in-game manager who gets outmanaged about 75% of the time and that his non-game skills have eroded due to family issues - but instead about his value. If the Marlins asked to talk to him about their manager position, then, according to the precedent set, he is a well respected manager. They would not ask to talk to him if they believed he was a bad manager. Is that really that hard to understand?

 

Exactly.