Offseason gameplan

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Olivo is a free agent! Bring him in!

[Lillian]

The biggest need that this team continues to have is an impact left handed bat. They didn't have one last year, and won't again in 2011 unless they sign or trade for one. Even the best young hitting prospects in the organization are all right handed. Morel, Viciedo and Flowers should all eventually be regulars, but are all right handed.

 

If they are going to trade for a left handed bat, the obvious place where the Sox have a surplus is starting pitching. Sale is too good to leave in the pen, and if he starts, they have 6 really good starters in Peavy, Jackson, Floyd, Danks, Buerhle and Sale. They should be able to trade one of those 6 for a solid left handed bat, especially if they are willing to throw in another minor piece. The most likely candidates are Floyd or Danks, as both Buerhle and Jackson will be free agents in 2012, and no team would likely take Peavy's contract. However, I'd consider any of the 6, with the exception of Sale.

 

The Quentin for Colby Rasmus trade would begin to address the lack of left handed hitting, but would probably not completely resolve the problem, as he is still unproven as a middle of the order big producer. He would however, at least provide a left handed presence. The Sox would likely have to include one other minor piece to the Quentin for Rasmus trade.

 

If they then trade one of their starting pitchers for an established left handed power hitter, they might have the balance they need.

 

Depending upon what position that other left handed bat plays, they might still have a place for Konerko, and he could be the free agent signing for this off season.

For example, if the left handed bat acquired for a pitcher were a D.H., then Paulie could return to play first.

Given that scenario, they could have a roster that looked something like this:

 

LF Pierre

3RD Vizquel

RF Rios

DH Left Handed Hitter acquired for the SP

1B Konerko

CF Colby Rasmus (LH)

2B Beckham

SS Ramirez

C Castro & Flowers

 

Against left handed pitching, they might use Alexei in the two hole, where he has been very effective.

That would be a place to substitute Morel for Vizquel, and have him bat in Ramirez' 8th spot.

I'd also love to see de Aza get some playing time vs right handers, instead of Pierre. De Aza had an OBP of .402, while hitting .342 vs right handers in AAA, and he can do a lot of things pretty well.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

The Cardinals will not trade Colby Rasmus for Carlos Quentin and a minor piece. Colby Rasmus has made amends with Tony LaRussa, is cheap, is under control his rights for 4 more years, and he plays a solid CF.. Carlos Quentin is injury prone, is about 10 times more expensive than Colby Rasmus, is only under control for 2 more seasons, and he is horrendous defensively.

 

I also don't think it really matters that there isn't a huge book out on Rasmus...the dude was a top 5 prospect 2 years in a row for a reason. He's going to be a 25-30 homer guy for a long time.

 

The Cardinals trading Rasmus now would have been like the Indians trading Grady Sizemore after his 2005 season. If the Cardinals actually decided to trade Rasmus, they could center a package around him and acquire pretty much any player they wanted (with some exceptions, of course). Honestly, if the Cards offered Rasmus straight up for Zach Greinke, I think the Royals would consider it (they'd need more, but they would consider it). Can you say the same thing about Carlos Quentin?

 

Carlos Quentin has little trade value right now and any team acquiring him would be bringing him in as a flier hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. He is not going to be traded for Colby Rasmus.

[Lillian]

The Cardinals will not trade Colby Rasmus for Carlos Quentin and a minor piece. Colby Rasmus has made amends with Tony LaRussa, is cheap, is under control his rights for 4 more years, and he plays a solid CF.. Carlos Quentin is injury prone, is about 10 times more expensive than Colby Rasmus, is only under control for 2 more seasons, and he is horrendous defensively.

 

I also don't think it really matters that there isn't a huge book out on Rasmus...the dude was a top 5 prospect 2 years in a row for a reason. He's going to be a 25-30 homer guy for a long time.

 

The Cardinals trading Rasmus now would have been like the Indians trading Grady Sizemore after his 2005 season. If the Cardinals actually decided to trade Rasmus, they could center a package around him and acquire pretty much any player they wanted (with some exceptions, of course). Honestly, if the Cards offered Rasmus straight up for Zach Greinke, I think the Royals would consider it (they'd need more, but they would consider it). Can you say the same thing about Carlos Quentin?

 

Carlos Quentin has little trade value right now and any team acquiring him would be bringing him in as a flier hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. He is not going to be traded for Colby Rasmus.

 

If your assessment is correct, then the Sox may be better served keeping Quentin, in which case it doesn't make much sense to try to resign Konerko, because that would leave them with too many right handed hitters. It would be better to spend the money that it would require to resign Konerko on a left handed hitter.

 

What other left handed hitter might be available in a trade for one of the Sox' starting pitchers?

[Lemon_44]

Why would Mark approve that type of deal?

Why wouldn't he? He doesn't come off as the type to block a trade.Plus, he'd pitch in the NL, which would likely increase his output which could lead to a better contract come his free agency the following year.

[LittleHurt05]

Why wouldn't he? He doesn't come off as the type to block a trade.Plus, he'd pitch in the NL, which would likely increase his output which could lead to a better contract come his free agency the following year.

 

Are you serious? I see absolutely no reason why he would accept that deal. This is the guy who has seriously discussed retiring when this contract is up. Unless he is going to STL, I doubt he accepts any other trade. If he is traded, his $15M option for 2012 kicks in, so he would play for that team for another season, which is another reason to think he would block it.

[Balta1701]

Are you serious? I see absolutely no reason why he would accept that deal. This is the guy who has seriously discussed retiring when this contract is up. Unless he is going to STL, I doubt he accepts any other trade. If he is traded, his $15M option for 2012 kicks in, so he would play for that team for another season, which is another reason to think he would block it.

Well, he could always retire if he didn't want to play that 2012 season.

[soxrwhite]

Mark Buerhle---He has a special place in all Sox fans hearts. If he is not a Hall of famer he is at least a candidate. Having said that, we know he is not as effective as he once was. Some players are just special and deserve special treatment. Letting Carlton Fisk go while on a road trip in Cleveland was classless and caused bad feelings for ,many years. Frank Thomas left under bad circumstances. Don't let that happen with Mark. If he is hurting the Sox in the rotation then move him to the pen for the duration of his contract. Let him walk after his contract is up on good terms, or trade him to St. Louis to finish up a great career in his hometown. Don't just trade this White Sox icon for a couple of prospects. Give him the respect and special treatment he is due.

[balfanman]

Are you serious? I see absolutely no reason why he would accept that deal. This is the guy who has seriously discussed retiring when this contract is up. Unless he is going to STL, I doubt he accepts any other trade. If he is traded, his $15M option for 2012 kicks in, so he would play for that team for another season, which is another reason to think he would block it.

 

Will people please stop saying this, it isn't correct. Buehrles option year expired when his 10/5 rights kicked in in July. If Buehrle is traded, this years salary gets bumped by 1 million, and then he is a free agent after this year. Simply put, anyone trading for Mark only has him for 2011.

[LittleHurt05]

Will people please stop saying this, it isn't correct. Buehrles option year expired when his 10/5 rights kicked in in July. If Buehrle is traded, this years salary gets bumped by 1 million, and then he is a free agent after this year. Simply put, anyone trading for Mark only has him for 2011.

 

I don't doubt you, but you need to tell that to the people at BR. This is what it says for 2012 on MB's player page.

 

2012 33 Chicago White Sox *$15,000,000 $15M Vesting Option Option vests if player is traded

[balfanman]

I don't doubt you, but you need to tell that to the people at BR. This is what it says for 2012 on MB's player page.

 

2012 33 Chicago White Sox *$15,000,000 $15M Vesting Option Option vests if player is traded

 

Kalapse verified this and this article is not telling you that this option expired when Mark got his 10/5 rights this past July. Mark only had that to help protect him if the Sox wanted to trade him before he could veto a trade. Now Mark has full say so on where he goes.

[witesoxfan]

If your assessment is correct, then the Sox may be better served keeping Quentin, in which case it doesn't make much sense to try to resign Konerko, because that would leave them with too many right handed hitters. It would be better to spend the money that it would require to resign Konerko on a left handed hitter.

 

What other left handed hitter might be available in a trade for one of the Sox' starting pitchers?

 

The Sox don't have to trade anybody to get a left handed bat considering the amount of left handed bats on the free agent market. I could see Carlos Pena being a guy the Sox target in the free agent market...guarantee him 2/$16 with a $12 mill team option or $2 mill buy out and see if he bites.

 

I do think they have to trade a starter to free up some money, but they don't have to acquire a left handed bat in return. Hell, acquiring a package of minor leaguers wouldn't be the worst thing.

[Lillian]

The Sox don't have to trade anybody to get a left handed bat considering the amount of left handed bats on the free agent market. I could see Carlos Pena being a guy the Sox target in the free agent market...guarantee him 2/$16 with a $12 mill team option or $2 mill buy out and see if he bites.

 

I do think they have to trade a starter to free up some money, but they don't have to acquire a left handed bat in return. Hell, acquiring a package of minor leaguers wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

Would Pena really represent a sufficient upgrade? His numbers were horrible last year. Is a .196 Avg. with 158 strike outs really worthy of $8 million a year.

Moreover, he only hit .204 vs RHP. Who else would you target?

[witesoxfan]

Would Pena really represent a sufficient upgrade? His numbers were horrible last year. Is a .196 Avg. with 158 strike outs really worthy of $8 million a year.

Moreover, he only hit .204 vs RHP. Who else would you target?

 

There are several options, just look up any 2010-11 free agent list. Cots Contracts has a great one.

 

The reason the White Sox would bring in Carlos Pena is because even though he hit .196, he still hit almost 30 homers, and walked almost 100 times. His BABIP of .222 suggests that he was quite unlucky this year on balls in play and that, with a little bit more luck, he could increase his batting average to .230, which would do wonders for his overall numbers. Add in the fact that he's going from a pitchers park to a hitters park where the ball flies out of the park, and Pena could be a legitimate 35-40 homer candidate next year (considering he hit 28 this year, 39 last year, 31 in 2008, and 46 in 2007, I'd say there's a pretty realistic chance of that happening). He's also a well known to be a pretty good defender at 1B too. On top of all that, his value is probably as low as it can get right now, and Williams won a championship by bringing in players at their lowest value and giving them a shot to prove themselves again. He's done it several times throughout his tenure as GM, and it's really a great way to buy low. If he can get Pena for the right price, I think it'll be a done deal.

 

(the main problem with Pena is that he is represented by Boras)

Edited November 4, 2010 by witesoxfan

[3E8]

Pena seems too risky to commit almost $20M to. His plate discipline has decreased noticeably each season since 2007, as has his line drives. Would rather gamble on a guy with less red flags who won't cost so much

[Lillian]

There are several options, just look up any 2010-11 free agent list. Cots Contracts has a great one.........

 

Of course, I"m very familiar with the Cot's Contracts website. However, the list of left handed free agents in this year's class is not very impressive.

Adam Dunn is the most intriguing name, but he doesn't want to DH, and he's a defensive liability.

 

I think a trade may make more sense.

[Thad Bosley]

Of course, I"m very familiar with the Cot's Contracts website. However, the list of left handed free agents in this year's class is not very impressive.

Adam Dunn is the most intriguing name, but he doesn't want to DH, and he's a defensive liability.

 

I think a trade may make more sense.

Trading one of our pitchers not named Peavy + the very realistic chance that the pitcher named Peavy might not come back from the freak injury he experienced last year = two potentially big holes in the rotation. I don't see how we become a better team under that scenario, even with the acquisition of the much-needed lefthanded bat as a result of the trade.

 

I think the "buying low" scenario on Carlos Pena mentioned earlier might make more sense. Perhaps he would be willing to sign an Adrian Beltre-like contract, a one-year deal where he tries to rebuild his value. Under this scenario, he could rotate between first base and DH with Paulie (provided, of course, we resign Konerko), while one Dayan Viciedo spends the year honing his craft at first base down at AAA. Then in 2012, the Tank moves to 1st and Konerko to DH. Just one thought that was bouncin' around my noggin'. Otherwise, if getting a lefthanded bat has to come via a trade, I think you try and do it in a deal with Quentin as the centerpiece.

[greg775]

The Sox don't have to trade anybody to get a left handed bat considering the amount of left handed bats on the free agent market. I could see Carlos Pena being a guy the Sox target in the free agent market...guarantee him 2/$16 with a $12 mill team option or $2 mill buy out and see if he bites.

 

I do think they have to trade a starter to free up some money, but they don't have to acquire a left handed bat in return. Hell, acquiring a package of minor leaguers wouldn't be the worst thing.

 

When we talk money on here, I don't see how fans throw out 2/16 for Pena and seem appalled AJ might ask for that or Paulie might get 3 years 39 million.

What is Teahen making? 5 mill? Edwin 8 mill?

[macsandz]

Pena seems too risky to commit almost $20M to. His plate discipline has decreased noticeably each season since 2007, as has his line drives. Would rather gamble on a guy with less red flags who won't cost so much

 

Pena is in a position these days much like Beltre last season. He's gonna have to consider a one year deal to work his value back into consideration.

Edited November 4, 2010 by bucket-of-suck

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

MLBtraderumors is saying the Sox are trying to extend Danks now to a long-term contract. Great, so now we are going to have even less money going forward. I mean, as long as it's no more than $7-8M a year, I'll be content w/ it.

[NorthSideSox72]

MLBtraderumors is saying the Sox are trying to extend Danks now to a long-term contract. Great, so now we are going to have even less money going forward. I mean, as long as it's no more than $7-8M a year, I'll be content w/ it.

Might actually make him more tradeable, if the money is affordable in relation to likely arb numbers and includes 1 or more free agent years.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Might actually make him more tradeable, if the money is affordable in relation to likely arb numbers and includes 1 or more free agent years.

Or that could mean that the team likes having the extra lefty and that Gavin Floyd (or Edwin Jackson) is the likely one to go.

 

Or that could mean that Chris Sale is your new closer.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Or that could mean that the team likes having the extra lefty and that Gavin Floyd (or Edwin Jackson) is the likely one to go.

 

Or that could mean that Chris Sale is your new closer.

 

god i hope not.

[Balta1701]

Anyway...signing a guy to an extension and immediately trading him...that'd seem like a major d-bag move if it actually happened.

[Chicago White Sox]

Or that could mean that the team likes having the extra lefty and that Gavin Floyd (or Edwin Jackson) is the likely one to go.

 

Or that could mean that Chris Sale is your new closer.

It simply means Danks is our best starter and we want to lock him up. Why is it so weird that we'd want to sign our young, talented left-handed pitcher to a long-term contract? KW probably realizes he needs to work out an extension now or else Danks has little reason not to wait and test free agency as soon as possible. If a deal can't be worked out, then KW has got to look into moving him now if he wants to maximize his return. However, there's no reason to trade Danks if he's willing to sign an affordable extension. This team needs a couple starters locked up long-term and he's by far the most valuable option.