Offseason gameplan

[Dick Allen]

Agree. Now what if he doesn't look at his free agency through dollar-eyes. Maybe he grew up always wanting to play for a team, or at the very least a contender. He's only 2 years away from being able to sign with ANY team he wants, money aside. Not many guys get that pure opportunity, but he will. And like you're saying, if he hasn't been a dope with his money, then he'll already have made enough these 2 years to cover any injury risk through his remaining arb year.

I've been on several White Sox roadtrips over the past few years and have seen Danks around. He always seems really happy. I think he's happy with the Sox. He grew up in Texas so maybe he was a fan of one of the Texas teams, but the Rangers did trade him and Houston blows. The only issue with what you are saying is when you are a free agent and one of the top guys, the players' association isn't going to let you leave a lot of money on the table. So if the Yankees offer $18 million a year for 5 years, and you really want to sign with the Astros but they have 4 years $14 million per, you're really not going to have a choice.

 

Its one reason why I always found the ARod criticism ridiculous. He was offered about $100 million more to go to Texas. The PA wouldn't let him say no even if he wanted. And no one in their right mind is going to take $100 million less.

[Jerksticks]

I've been on several White Sox roadtrips over the past few years and have seen Danks around. He always seems really happy. I think he's happy with the Sox. He grew up in Texas so maybe he was a fan of one of the Texas teams, but the Rangers did trade him and Houston blows. The only issue with what you are saying is when you are a free agent and one of the top guys, the players' association isn't going to let you leave a lot of money on the table. So if the Yankees offer $18 million a year for 5 years, and you really want to sign with the Astros but they have 4 years $14 million per, you're really not going to have a choice.

 

Its one reason why I always found the ARod criticism ridiculous. He was offered about $100 million more to go to Texas. The PA wouldn't let him say no even if he wanted. And no one in their right mind is going to take $100 million less.

 

Really? I had no idea that sort of thing existed. I thought a FA could do anything. So say Cliff Lee wanted to sign reasonable 1 year deals until he retired, he couldn't do that if the Yankees offered him multiple years and tons of cash?

 

What are the actual guidelines used by the PA?

[Dick Allen]

Really? I had no idea that sort of thing existed. I thought a FA could do anything. So say Cliff Lee wanted to sign reasonable 1 year deals until he retired, he couldn't do that if the Yankees offered him multiple years and tons of cash?

 

What are the actual guidelines used by the PA?

He can do whatever he wants, but he's going to be pressured, and if he does what he wants and leaves the money on the table, he's going to be known as a guy that cost a lot of players a lot of money. You can get away with giving a team a "hometown discount", but only for so much. The less Danks makes, the less guys of his ilk make in the future. In fact, one article I read several years ago basically said if it wasn't for the union's pressure, Jim Thome would have stayed in Cleveland for a lot less money.

 

Salaries are basically determined by salaries of similar players in similar circumstances. If Cliff Lee decides to sign a one year deal at a time, that will trickle down to a lot of players.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

I'd like KW to bring back BMac.

[southsider2k5]

I'd like KW to bring back BMac.

 

I have to imagine someone will offer McCarthy a better shot at the bigs than the Sox will. Not to mention there wasn't exactly nice stuff said about Brandon after he left.

[Balta1701]

I have to imagine someone will offer McCarthy a better shot at the bigs than the Sox will. Not to mention there wasn't exactly nice stuff said about Brandon after he left.

He can go to the Royals and try to play CF.

[Dick Allen]

Phil Rogers is reporting Buddy Bell is being considered for a coaching gig with Toronto. I just remember the Sox reality show when they were going around asking all the scouts and other officials if they thought the Sox needed a hitter or pitcher at the deadline. Everyone said pitcher except Buddy. There is something that makes me think he has a love/hate relationship with the Sox organization. I remember when he managed at KC taking a few shots at the White Sox dugout leadership for "not knowing the rules",

Edited November 6, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox do not retain AJ, Konerko or Jenks, I think it would be fair to officially put 2005 in the rear view. Enjoy the championship, but it will be time to start holding all accountable by what is going on now, not giving anyone a pass because of what happened 5 years ago. I think Buehrle would be the only one left unless Garcia re-signed.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If the Sox do not retain AJ, Konerko or Jenks, I think it would be fair to officially put 2005 in the rear view. Enjoy the championship, but it will be time to start holding all accountable by what is going on now, not giving anyone a pass because of what happened 5 years ago. I think Buehrle would be the only one left unless Garcia re-signed.

 

Until we sign Pods.

[ThunderBolt]

If the Sox do not retain AJ, Konerko or Jenks, I think it would be fair to officially put 2005 in the rear view. Enjoy the championship, but it will be time to start holding all accountable by what is going on now, not giving anyone a pass because of what happened 5 years ago. I think Buehrle would be the only one left unless Garcia re-signed.

I really wouldn't mind wiping the slate clean. I cherish the memories that we've had with those three, but they're just memories at this point. I love Paulie, but i'm fearful of what overpaying him will do to our limited cap flexibility.

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah, I hate to say it guys, but we're pretty close to rebuild time, I fear. Can't sign 35-year old guys to multiyear deals.

[beautox]

I know this has been discussed a ton over the past few years; but with A-Gons pending free agency and the fact we could really use an established LH 1B, i would love to see KW use Escobar's helium rise in the AFL coupled with Viciedo's modest showing in the show and something like a throw in like Danks 2.0 and see if the padres would be interested.

 

In addition to that i wonder if as previously discussed on these boards Sizemore or Upton might be had for a potential injury riddled swap with Quentin. Sizemore has 16m remaining on his contract through '12.

 

Move Pierre and Teahen while paying most if not all of their combined salary for some project arms ala thornton and threets, maybe someone like Cesar Ramos of San Diego.

 

try to find a potential non tender trade target partner for jenks

 

Sign one of Crawford or Werth and one of Manny or Vlad, call it an off season.

 

re-up with andruw.

 

Ideal opening day line up

 

L Crawford LF

R Beckham 2B

L Sizemore RF/CF

R Rios CF/RF

L A-Gon 1B

R Manny/Vlad DH

R Ramirez SS

L AJ

R Morel

[Balta1701]

I know this has been discussed a ton over the past few years; but with A-Gons pending free agency and the fact we could really use an established LH 1B, i would love to see KW use Escobar's helium rise in the AFL coupled with Viciedo's modest showing in the show and something like a throw in like Danks 2.0 and see if the padres would be interested.

There is every reason to think that if the Padres were amenable to such an offer, the Red Sox or some similar level team would step in and beat it.

[chetkincaid]

I know this has been discussed a ton over the past few years; but with A-Gons pending free agency and the fact we could really use an established LH 1B, i would love to see KW use Escobar's helium rise in the AFL coupled with Viciedo's modest showing in the show and something like a throw in like Danks 2.0 and see if the padres would be interested.

 

In addition to that i wonder if as previously discussed on these boards Sizemore or Upton might be had for a potential injury riddled swap with Quentin. Sizemore has 16m remaining on his contract through '12.

 

Move Pierre and Teahen while paying most if not all of their combined salary for some project arms ala thornton and threets, maybe someone like Cesar Ramos of San Diego.

 

try to find a potential non tender trade target partner for jenks

 

Sign one of Crawford or Werth and one of Manny or Vlad, call it an off season.

 

re-up with andruw.

 

Ideal opening day line up

 

L Crawford LF

R Beckham 2B

L Sizemore RF/CF

R Rios CF/RF

L A-Gon 1B

R Manny/Vlad DH

R Ramirez SS

L AJ

R Morel

 

Wow. adding Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Grady Sizemore? Yeah, I'd call that an offseason alright...

 

[witesoxfan]

I know this has been discussed a ton over the past few years; but with A-Gons pending free agency and the fact we could really use an established LH 1B, i would love to see KW use Escobar's helium rise in the AFL coupled with Viciedo's modest showing in the show and something like a throw in like Danks 2.0 and see if the padres would be interested.

 

In addition to that i wonder if as previously discussed on these boards Sizemore or Upton might be had for a potential injury riddled swap with Quentin. Sizemore has 16m remaining on his contract through '12.

 

Move Pierre and Teahen while paying most if not all of their combined salary for some project arms ala thornton and threets, maybe someone like Cesar Ramos of San Diego.

 

try to find a potential non tender trade target partner for jenks

 

Sign one of Crawford or Werth and one of Manny or Vlad, call it an off season.

 

re-up with andruw.

 

Ideal opening day line up

 

L Crawford LF

R Beckham 2B

L Sizemore RF/CF

R Rios CF/RF

L A-Gon 1B

R Manny/Vlad DH

R Ramirez SS

L AJ

R Morel

 

Escobar, Viciedo, and Jordan Danks isn't anywhere close to enough for Adrian Gonzalez. Danks is absolutely worthless right now. You would have to include Mitchell for them to even think about it.

 

If you trade Jenks before you non-tender him, you're going to get a AAAA player anyways...there's no real harm or gain to doing it, aside from letting someone else have his arbitration rights. Besides, I doubt anyone is going to want to even give up that for a guy who was bad last year and is going to cost $9-10 million. They'll just wait until he is non-tendered.

 

Quentin has extremely little value. Perhaps Cleveland would look to move Sizemore this year, but I don't think they want to move a player of that caliber within the division. Beyond that, Sizemore is talented enough that the Sox would have to include more than just Quentin.

 

I don't think you can just "sign Crawford," considering he's probably going to end up getting anywhere between $15-20 mill a year over 5-7 years. The Sox simply don't have that kind of money. They also don't have the $6-10 mill beyond that to sign Manny or Vlad. You are talking about adding like $40 million in payroll at the very minimum, and up to $60 million. That's insanity.

[southsider2k5]

Escobar, Viciedo, and Jordan Danks isn't anywhere close to enough for Adrian Gonzalez. Danks is absolutely worthless right now. You would have to include Mitchell for them to even think about it.

 

If you trade Jenks before you non-tender him, you're going to get a AAAA player anyways...there's no real harm or gain to doing it, aside from letting someone else have his arbitration rights. Besides, I doubt anyone is going to want to even give up that for a guy who was bad last year and is going to cost $9-10 million. They'll just wait until he is non-tendered.

 

Quentin has extremely little value. Perhaps Cleveland would look to move Sizemore this year, but I don't think they want to move a player of that caliber within the division. Beyond that, Sizemore is talented enough that the Sox would have to include more than just Quentin.

 

I don't think you can just "sign Crawford," considering he's probably going to end up getting anywhere between $15-20 mill a year over 5-7 years. The Sox simply don't have that kind of money. They also don't have the $6-10 mill beyond that to sign Manny or Vlad. You are talking about adding like $40 million in payroll at the very minimum, and up to $60 million. That's insanity.

 

I don't know. With their respective injury histories and salaries, Sizemore and Quentin might be closer in value than first glance.

[Rowand44]

Wow. adding Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, and Grady Sizemore? Yeah, I'd call that an offseason alright...

Ha ya, pipe dream at it's finest right there.

[Rowand44]

I don't know. With their respective injury histories and salaries, Sizemore and Quentin might be closer in value than first glance.

Grady has had more than one really good season, plays better defense, is a better baserunner, etc. He still absolutely has more value than CQ.

[gatnom]

I don't know. With their respective injury histories and salaries, Sizemore and Quentin might be closer in value than first glance.

 

Even so, trading within the division is handled differently than trading outside of it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Grady has had more than one really good season, plays better defense, is a better baserunner, etc. He still absolutely has more value than CQ.

 

Correct. I'd trade CQ for Sizemore's 6-pack let alone his actual talent.

[GREEDY]

Danks, Danks, Beckham, Mitchell to San Diego - Gonzalez, Ludwick to Chicago. + 8 Million?

A multi team deal that nets the Sox Rasmus in exchange for Buehrle, Flowers, Viciedo. -14 Million

Sox trade Pierre and $1million for low level garbage prospects. -4 Million

Sox sign Miguel Olivo. +4 Million?

Sox sign Scott Downs. +5 Million?

Sox sign Tony Pena 1.5 Million?

Sox let Konerko, AJP, Jenks, Putz walk. -30 Million

 

This makes your 2011 lineup:

LF Rasmus

SS Ramirez

1B Gonzalez

CF Rios

RF Ludwick

DH Quentin/Teahen

3B Morel

C Olivo/Castro

2B Lillibridge/Vizquel

 

Rotation:

Peavy

Jackson

Floyd

Sale

#### Open?

 

Pen:

Thornton

Downs

Santos

Linebrink

Pena

#### Open?

 

My very rough estimates leave Kenny at least 30 million short of 2010's total budget to spend on a starting pitcher and a couple relievers. This does not count any of the money Manny received or any sort of a raise in spending.

 

-----

 

Yes, I have run every single fan favorite out of town.

Yes, I realize we do not match up well with the Cards.

Yes, I realize Peavy and Sale are huge question marks.

Yes, I realize our crappy farm system would be even crappier if that is humanly possible.

Yes, I realize Ozzie and Miguel would have to kiss and make up.

 

BUT

 

Every single offensive starter would be above average defensively.

No offensive player "clogs the bases".

Hell, give Cliff Lee $25,000,000 and the rotation would look pretty nice right

 

Pretty nice team IMHO

 

Now back to reality

[southsider2k5]

The Cardinals are not going to be picking up $14 million in salary this winter.

[GREEDY]

The Cardinals are not going to be picking up $14 million in salary this winter.

 

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

 

The starting pitching market is pretty thin and guys like Westbrook/Garland/Pavano are going to get big money for MULTIPLE years. Plenty of teams (including the Cards)would take Buehrle for only one year at 14,000,000. Now he doesn't have much value, but I wouldn't say it is negative. Come to think of it, isn't there an automatic escalator if MB is traded? That might damper things...

[southsider2k5]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

 

The starting pitching market is pretty thin and guys like Westbrook/Garland/Pavano are going to get big money for MULTIPLE years. Plenty of teams (including the Cards)would take Buehrle for only one year at 14,000,000. Now he doesn't have much value, but I wouldn't say it is negative. Come to think of it, isn't there an automatic escalator if MB is traded? That might damper things...

 

The cardinals don't have the payroll to add that kind of salary.

[witesoxfan]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

 

The starting pitching market is pretty thin and guys like Westbrook/Garland/Pavano are going to get big money for MULTIPLE years. Plenty of teams (including the Cards)would take Buehrle for only one year at 14,000,000. Now he doesn't have much value, but I wouldn't say it is negative. Come to think of it, isn't there an automatic escalator if MB is traded? That might damper things...

 

Here is the Cardinals planned rotation for next season

 

1) Wainwright

2) Carpenter

3) Garcia

4) Westbrook

5) Lohse

 

If they lose out on Westbrook (who I doubt they're willing to give any more than $6-8 mill/year), they'll just pick up another pitcher off of the junk pile and throw him into the #5 slot. They're not going to be adding $14 million, let alone give up a great, young piece (even if the Sox are including a bunch of other stuff).