Vizquel Back

[greg775]

I think it's going to be hard for Ozzie not to give him the Mark Kotsay treatment when Morel (as he seems to be the plan at third) starts struggling.

 

That's what I was thinking. I don't think we want Omar playing 100 or more games. And I do think we overpaid him, don't you? Unless half the salary is going for his coaching ability of our young infielders.

[gatnom]

That's what I was thinking. I don't think we want Omar playing 100 or more games. And I do think we overpaid him, don't you? Unless half the salary is going for his coaching ability of our young infielders.

 

I don't think we particularly overpaid him, though it could be an issue paying somewhat of a premium for a role player when we have so little to spend. The Sox as an organization seem to be very fair if not unfair to themselves when they deal with contracts or trades. I always get the feeling that they try to give what they believe to be fair market value instead of actually trying to "win" the deal/contract.

[Dick Allen]

For all the giddiness about Morel, he's great with the glove, but offensively, besides a couple of homers, he showed he's a ways away. I doubt Omar matches his 2010 offensive output next season, but once he was playing, the Sox got a lot better defensively on the infield and started winning games. Unless KW goes and gets an obvious everyday 3B, no matter what they say now, Omar is going to wind up with the majority of the starts there as long as he's healthy.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think we particularly overpaid him, though it could be an issue paying somewhat of a premium for a role player when we have so little to spend. The Sox as an organization seem to be very fair if not unfair to themselves when they deal with contracts or trades. I always get the feeling that they try to give what they believe to be fair market value instead of actually trying to "win" the deal/contract.

For a guy his age, maybe you overpaid $250k-500k but you can consider that a bonus for 2010 when they got a real bargain. It surprised me. I thought they were just pissing money away on him.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

For all the giddiness about Morel, he's great with the glove, but offensively, besides a couple of homers, he showed he's a ways away. I doubt Omar matches his 2010 offensive output next season, but once he was playing, the Sox got a lot better defensively on the infield and started winning games. Unless KW goes and gets an obvious everyday 3B, no matter what they say now, Omar is going to wind up with the majority of the starts there as long as he's healthy.

 

I'd rather have Morel playing than 3B than Vizquel. They both offer great defense (although I'd given Morel the nod given his strong arm), and they are both "meh" offensively. However, I'd rather let the young guy play everyday and bat everyday to get better than the 44 year old player who is more useful to use plugging in at multiple other positions.

[gatnom]

I'd rather have Morel playing than 3B than Vizquel. They both offer great defense (although I'd given Morel the nod given his strong arm), and they are both "meh" offensively. However, I'd rather let the young guy play everyday and bat everyday to get better than the 44 year old player who is more useful to use plugging in at multiple other positions.

 

"meh" is one way of putting it.

[Balta1701]

I'd rather have Morel playing than 3B than Vizquel. They both offer great defense (although I'd given Morel the nod given his strong arm), and they are both "meh" offensively. However, I'd rather let the young guy play everyday and bat everyday to get better than the 44 year old player who is more useful to use plugging in at multiple other positions.

Why do we think morel is "meh" offensively other than the fact that he's a rookie? This guy had a solid approach to hitting the whole year last year and, although it took him a week or two to adapt, basically has mashed everything since the 2009 AFL.

[Quin]

Only thing Morel showed me with the bat is that he has like a 2 week adjustment period and is then fine.

[Dick Allen]

Only thing Morel showed me with the bat is that he has like a 2 week adjustment period and is then fine.

Considering he has very few major league ABs and was hitting under .200 before total garbage time against Boston and Cleveland, the jury is still out on his bat. Vizquel is the insurance policy. I think they probably have called uncle on Teahen as an every day 3B.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Why do we think morel is "meh" offensively other than the fact that he's a rookie? This guy had a solid approach to hitting the whole year last year and, although it took him a week or two to adapt, basically has mashed everything since the 2009 AFL.

 

I am saying for the sake of the 2011 season, I think Vizquel and Morel could put up similar offensive numbers. I'm the biggest Morel fan around here, and I fully think he will improve offensively in his career, but for the sake of argument and being realistic to the 2011 season, I think neither will be more than average offensive players. From 2012 and beyond, I would have to think Morel would be improved offensively and be pretty decent.

[Balta1701]

I am saying for the sake of the 2011 season, I think Vizquel and Morel could put up similar offensive numbers. I'm the biggest Morel fan around here, and I fully think he will improve offensively in his career, but for the sake of argument and being realistic to the 2011 season, I think neither will be more than average offensive players. From 2012 and beyond, I would have to think Morel would be improved offensively and be pretty decent.

I don't see how I'd say "Meh" at average performance out of a rookie 3b.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I don't see how I'd say "Meh" at average performance out of a rookie 3b.

 

"I think neither will be more than average offensive players."

 

Average offensive player being the best case scenario.

[Balta1701]

"I think neither will be more than average offensive players."

 

Average offensive player being the best case scenario.

The Average OPS of a 3b in the AL last year was .729, FWIW.

[Texsox]

seems like an easy move to make. Versatile bench players with all the intangibles, are not the easiest to come by. Especially someone who seems comfortable in that role.

[greg775]

seems like an easy move to make. Versatile bench players with all the intangibles, are not the easiest to come by. Especially someone who seems comfortable in that role.

 

Funny how a lot of us figure Vizquel will be equally productive next season yet most people figure a guy 10 years younger in Paulie is about to hit the brick wall where he suddenly declines.

Just.Pay.Paulie.

[Rowand44]

Funny how a lot of us figure Vizquel will be equally productive next season yet most people figure a guy 10 years younger in Paulie is about to hit the brick wall where he suddenly declines.

Just.Pay.Paulie.

Taking age out of the equation it's still a given that PK is going to have a worse year next season then he did this season.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Funny how a lot of us figure Vizquel will be equally productive next season yet most people figure a guy 10 years younger in Paulie is about to hit the brick wall where he suddenly declines.

Just.Pay.Paulie.

 

It's a lot easier to replicate an average offensive year than it is to replicate an MVP-caliber season. Come on, that's not a good comparison at ALL.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Funny how a lot of us figure Vizquel will be equally productive next season yet most people figure a guy 10 years younger in Paulie is about to hit the brick wall where he suddenly declines.

Just.Pay.Paulie.

 

Dude, I seriously hate you sometimes. Outside of probably 2-3 1B, there wasn't anyone at that position that had a better year than PK. Vizquel was a f***ing roleplayer who was pimped out by dumbass Hawk as the lone savior for our mid-season turn-around. Now give Omar his due. He played a role. But don't get it twisted. It'll be A LOT easier for Omar to repeat his '10 than PK. And I say this with love, greg. You know me and you are cool. I've proven that.

[greg775]

Dude, I seriously hate you sometimes. Outside of probably 2-3 1B, there wasn't anyone at that position that had a better year than PK. Vizquel was a f***ing roleplayer who was pimped out by dumbass Hawk as the lone savior for our mid-season turn-around. Now give Omar his due. He played a role. But don't get it twisted. It'll be A LOT easier for Omar to repeat his '10 than PK. And I say this with love, greg. You know me and you are cool. I've proven that.

 

I actually am one who thinks Paulie is not done and can come close to the numbers of this year. I must have written my note poorly. I think he was a stud this entire season. He hit for power, roped balls into the corners and what I love about Paulie, whacked several singles as well when we needed them.

I was meaning to bag on the people that think it's all great to sign Omar and don't really care if Paulie goes cause Paulie magically is going to see his numbers drop big time. He's 10 years younger than Omar. Paulie is far from dead.

I'm also a fan, on the record, who wouldn't mind Paulie playing even if he dips fairly dramatically offensively in the second year of his next two year deal, which I doubt he will. I like watching him play defense. I don't care what the numbers say, my eyes tell me Paulie is pretty good on D. I love watching him scoop everything. Yeah, he sometimes stumbles a bit as an oaf on plays to his right, but so what? Nobody's perfect.

Edited November 9, 2010 by greg775

[LittleHurt05]

I actually am one who thinks Paulie is not done and can come close to the numbers of this year. I must have written my note poorly. I think he was a stud this entire season. He hit for power, roped balls into the corners and what I love about Paulie, whacked several singles as well when we needed them.

I was meaning to bag on the people that think it's all great to sign Omar and don't really care if Paulie goes cause Paulie magically is going to see his numbers drop big time. He's 10 years younger than Omar. Paulie is far from dead.

I'm also a fan, on the record, who wouldn't mind Paulie playing even if he dips fairly dramatically offensively in the second year of his next two year deal, which I doubt he will. I like watching him play defense. I don't care what the numbers say, my eyes tell me Paulie is pretty good on D. I love watching him scoop everything. Yeah, he sometimes stumbles a bit as an oaf on plays to his right, but so what? Nobody's perfect.

 

It's just not that easy to compare two guys when one makes $1.75 million on a one-year deal and is projected to be a 5th IF, while the other will make $10-12 million/year on a three year deal and will depended on to be your top run producer. If Vizquel sucks, it won't kill your team. If PK struggles, it will definitely put you in a hole, thats the difference.