Is V-Mart the answer?

[southsider2k5]

I'd love Martinez, but I am guessing he is out of price range.

[soxfan-kwman]

Im actually more interested in Beltre. An awesome defender at 3B who bats with a high average, slugging percentage, and can consistently drive in runs. Plus hes prolly in the 2/24 or 3/36 contract range here. Something pretty good for the sox and Beltre in terms of length and dollars as a free agent.

 

I agree & think Beltre might be the most realistic idea. Sounds like a better forum topic, we just can't draw free agents without overpaying. V-Mart is as good of an idea as signing Carl Crawford,B.J. Upton, Jason Werth ... last few years Tori Hunter, Bobby Abreu, Chone Figgins,Johny Stinking Damon,etc. And more unrealistic, trade for Colby Rasmus I think we should.

 

Sign Beltre(good d-fense at 3B, big stick in the lineup), Sign Rick Ankiel & Melky Cabrera (rotating outfielders/DH's), Re-sign Paulie( solid realistic FA signing), Re-sign AJ(try him a 1B on some off days & DH a little). Plus we can allow Tank, Morrel to develop and fill in for injuries. This gives us tons of flexible line-ups & this is what Ozzie would like. Spending this amount of money would allow us to bring back Bobby Jenks, who I think will have a great year!!!

Edited November 5, 2010 by soxfan-kwman

[joeynach]

I agree & think Beltre might be the most realistic idea. Sounds like a better forum topic, we just can't draw free agents without overpaying. V-Mart is as good of an idea as signing Carl Crawford,B.J. Upton, ... last few years Tori Hunter, Bobby Abreu, Chone Figgins,Johny Stinking Damon,etc. And more unrealistic, trade for Colby Rasmus I think we should.

 

Sign Beltre(good d-fense at 3B, big stick in the lineup), Sign Rick Ankiel & Melky Cabrera (rotating outfielders/DH's), Re-sign Paulie( solid realistic FA signing), Re-sign AJ(try him a 1B on some off days & DH a little). Plus we can allow Tank, Morrel to develop and fill in for injuries. This gives us tons of flexible line-ups & this is what Ozzie would like. Spending this amount of money would allow us to bring back Bobby Jenks, who I think will have a great year!!!

 

Tons of flexible lineups = more decisions for Ozzie to make = NO THANK YOU. Managers are at their best when they can consistently through a productive lineup and rotation out there. History shows when you have so much uncertainty and you leave it up to the manager to make those decisions, you are much more prone to failure.

[soxfan-kwman]

New Additions

Add Melky Cabrera- He switch hits & he hits great at the Cell.

 

Add Carlos Pena- He is a big left handed bat, & a good 1B. Coming off of a down year.

 

coming back

Keep A.J. at C

Keep Morel at 3B

Keeping Beckham 2B

Keeping Alexei Ramirez SS

Keep Rios

Keep Pierre

 

Bench

Keep Andruw Jones as back up

Keeping Omar

 

DH

Manny on the Cheap?

TCQ

Edited November 5, 2010 by soxfan-kwman

[macsandz]

I'd love Martinez, but I am guessing he is out of price range.

 

My point was not to resign PK or AJ. That frees up a lot of dollars.

[southsider2k5]

My point was not to resign PK or AJ. That frees up a lot of dollars.

 

I don't think it frees up as much as you think honestly.

[Cali]

Beltre seems like THE definition of Contract Year player... Does anyone in the world think he'll put up similar numbers next year if he gets a nice fat deal?

[Balta1701]

Beltre seems like THE definition of Contract Year player... Does anyone in the world think he'll put up similar numbers next year if he gets a nice fat deal?

Might depend on where he winds up playing.

[macsandz]

I don't think it frees up as much as you think honestly.

 

Martinez made $7.8M last season. That's just over $1M more than AJ. If you offered him say 3/$30M that's still less then what Konerko will command and certainly less then both he and AJ would resign for.

Edited November 5, 2010 by bucket-of-suck

[Balta1701]

Martinez made $7.8M last season. That's just over $1M more than AJ. If you offered him say 3/$30M that's still less then what Konerko will command and certainly less then both he and AJ would resign for.

SI's Heyman asked around a month or so ago and gave his estimate and a couple unnamed exec estimates of the salary that these guys will command. Here's the guess numbers on Martinez. You're below all of them.

7. Victor Martinez, Red Sox C. Superb offensive player (.296, 18, 73) Boston hopes to bring back, though their initial two-year offer was rejected. Some teams don't like him as a catcher, but a few do, including Boston.

 

Executive: $48 million, four years. Agent 1: $60 million, 4 years. Me: $36 million, three years.

[caulfield12]

There's just no way we got after Martinez.

 

The budget numbers don't work for him, even with Konerko and AJ not brought back.

 

They especially won't work if they're trying to extend Danks.

[southsider2k5]

SI's Heyman asked around a month or so ago and gave his estimate and a couple unnamed exec estimates of the salary that these guys will command. Here's the guess numbers on Martinez. You're below all of them.

 

Yeah, I was guessing in the $12 million a year range.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I was guessing in the $12 million a year range.

Obviously I wouldn't take any of those numbers as gospel. I think the real question is...what position do you think Martinez fills for you? If you think he's a DH, you're not paying that much. If you don't mind the opposition having an unstoppable running game, Martinez put up the 5th highest OPS of any catcher in the bigs last year (Mauer, Posey, Soto, and Carlos Ruiz). If you look at him as a pure 1b, his OPS would have been 13th (Right behind Teixeira), which is good but not spectacular. At DH, he'd have had the #3 OPS at that position, but $12 million for an .850-ish OPS out of the DH spot is a lot. The Red Sox spent quite a while hesitating on $12 million for a .900 OPS DH.

[southsider2k5]

Obviously I wouldn't take any of those numbers as gospel. I think the real question is...what position do you think Martinez fills for you? If you think he's a DH, you're not paying that much. If you don't mind the opposition having an unstoppable running game, Martinez put up the 5th highest OPS of any catcher in the bigs last year (Mauer, Posey, Soto, and Carlos Ruiz). If you look at him as a pure 1b, his OPS would have been 13th (Right behind Teixeira), which is good but not spectacular. At DH, he'd have had the #3 OPS at that position, but $12 million for an .850-ish OPS out of the DH spot is a lot. The Red Sox spent quite a while hesitating on $12 million for a .900 OPS DH.

 

How about someone covering all three spots?

[Balta1701]

How about someone covering all three spots?

Problem is...he's not exactly great at any of them. Yeah, if you put him on your roster as the full time DH you in essence have an extra backup catcher, but you're still carrying 2 other catchers because you don't want to take him out of the DH spot, but you don't want to play him full time at catcher either. If you put him at 1b, you ought to pay him like an average, switch-hitting 1b, because if you want to move him around, you need to have an extra 1b on your roster who can play there a good chunk of the time. If I wanted to pick which guy to give $12 mil a season to be my 1b, would I rather have the guy who can be my 3rd catcher and gives me a .844 OPS or the guy who only plays 1b but put up a .977 OPS last year?

[macsandz]

SI's Heyman asked around a month or so ago and gave his estimate and a couple unnamed exec estimates of the salary that these guys will command. Here's the guess numbers on Martinez. You're below all of them.

 

7. Victor Martinez, Red Sox C. Superb offensive player (.296, 18, 73) Boston hopes to bring back, though their initial two-year offer was rejected. Some teams don't like him as a catcher, but a few do, including Boston.

 

Executive: $48 million, four years. Agent 1: $60 million, 4 years. Me: $36 million, three years.

 

"(.296, 18, 73)" is not "superb" if he's not a catcher. It's decent or even average as a 1B which is what I'd sign him as and it might even be below average as a DH.

3/$30M is more than a decent offer starting point. The question is what position does he want to play? That's gonna be a factor.

 

Right now the Sox can offer him an everyday role as 1B, C, or DH. Not every team can.

[Balta1701]

7. Victor Martinez, Red Sox C. Superb offensive player (.296, 18, 73) Boston hopes to bring back, though their initial two-year offer was rejected. Some teams don't like him as a catcher, but a few do, including Boston.

 

Executive: $48 million, four years. Agent 1: $60 million, 4 years. Me: $36 million, three years.

 

"(.296, 18, 73)" is not "superb" if he's not a catcher. It's decent or even average as a 1B which is what I'd sign him as and it might even be below average as a DH.

3/$30M is more than a decent offer starting point. The question is what position does he want to play? That's gonna be a factor.

 

Right now the Sox can offer him an everyday role as 1B, C, or DH. Not every team can.

I know the big money teams don't all need catchers right now (well, maybe the Red Sox), but the more I think about what will actually happen, the more I'm going to bet that some team will overpay him because they want him to be a serious bat in the catcher's role, rather than an adequate bat at another position.

[macsandz]

I know the big money teams don't all need catchers right now (well, maybe the Red Sox), but the more I think about what will actually happen, the more I'm going to bet that some team will overpay him because they want him to be a serious bat in the catcher's role, rather than an adequate bat at another position.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. I just don't see him as a catcher over the next 3 years or so.