Sox Outright Donny Lucy and Ra(aaaa)ndy Williams

[TheChrisSamsa]

Per Scott Merkin's Twitter.

 

40 man roster now at 31.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Randy was worthless, but Lucy seemed like a decent emergency backup.

[LittleHurt05]

NOOOOO!!!! The Randy Williams era is over!!!!!!

 

 

[chw42]

All hail the great LOOGY Randy Williams.

[Balta1701]

Does anyone have a list of the guys that we have to add to the 40 man roster in order to protect them from the rule 5 draft?

[NorthSideSox72]

As one of Donny's biggest fans on the board, this makes me sad, but its clear he doesn't have a place with the Sox. He seems like a very bright, very athletic, solid defensive catcher who handles pitchers well and works his rear off. I'd imagine he'll find a AAA slot somewhere else, and may even still become a backup major leaguer somewhere.

 

Best of luck, D Lucy!

 

[joeynach]

Randy "walk, double, HR" Williams is gone. OHHHH NOOOOO!

[soxrwhite]

We are in big big big trouble now! All kidding aside Lucy seemed like he could play some. I could live with him at backup.

[Marty34]

What I'll remember most about Lucy was that he was selected eight picks ahead of Kurt Suzuki, five picks ahead of Hunter Pence, and six picks ahead of Dustin Pedroia. Just an awful pick. All things considered has to be one of the worst in Sox history.

[Balta1701]

What I'll remember most about Lucy was that he was selected eight picks ahead of Kurt Suzuki, five picks ahead of Hunter Pence, and six picks ahead of Dustin Pedroia. Just an awful pick. All things considered has to be one of the worst in Sox history.

Really, no. Not even close.

[Marty34]

Kurt Brown (pick before Bonds) Jason Dellaero (pick before Berkman) are worse, but Lucy eight picks ahead of Pedroia is one of the Sox worst picks.

[Dick Allen]

Kurt Brown (pick before Bonds) Jason Dellaero (pick before Berkman) are worse, but Lucy eight picks ahead of Pedroia is one of the Sox worst picks.

You're going to miss on players. I think what it shows is that its a total myth the Sox draft position is what keeps them from developing great players. There are plenty available every season. They just haven't been very good at recognizing them over the years. Sure they haven't had the top pick slam dunk selection for years, but even when they had that incredible run with Himes, they were eyeing other players. They really wanted Harkey instead of McDowell but the Cubs picked him. They really wanted Jeff Jackson but the Phillies picked him and they had to take Frank Thomas. For some reason the Cubs selecting in front of the Sox and looking for a 3B for decades pass on Robin Ventura, and Alex Fernandez was a no brainer but Milwaukee drafted him in the first round 2 years earlier and didn't sign him.

[Balta1701]

Kurt Brown (pick before Bonds) Jason Dellaero (pick before Berkman) are worse, but Lucy eight picks ahead of Pedroia is one of the Sox worst picks.

Casey Rogowski a few picks before that Pujols dude?

[Balta1701]

You're going to miss on players. I think what it shows is that its a total myth the Sox draft position is what keeps them from developing great players. There are plenty available every season. They just haven't been very good at recognizing them over the years. Sure they haven't had the top pick slam dunk selection for years, but even when they had that incredible run with Himes, they were eyeing other players. They really wanted Harkey instead of McDowell but the Cubs picked him. They really wanted Jeff Jackson but the Phillies picked him and they had to take Frank Thomas. For some reason the Cubs selecting in front of the Sox and looking for a 3B for decades pass on Robin Ventura, and Alex Fernandez was a no brainer but Milwaukee drafted him in the first round 2 years earlier and didn't sign him.

There's a different way to look at that...it can also be that the draft, outside of a couple of picks, is basically playing the lottery with slightly weighted odds, and even if you make every pick 100% correct based on your scouting, you're going to miss. A lot. And then you're going to pick draft and follow guys in teh 38th round and have them turn into the most reliable LH closer in WS history (100%!), and you're going to draft a guy in the 19th round, have him look really good for his first year, then trade him for your best starting pitcher. Or you're going to draft a guy in round 3 that no one likes and pencil him in as your starting 3b when no one in the minors can get him out.

 

You can make a case that the Sox are too cheap and I'll listen to that...but saying "How did we miss this all star in the late 1st round" always sounds so silly to me when 15-20 other teams passed on the same guy.

[Chicago White Sox]

Casey Rogowski a few picks before that Pujols dude?

Are you serious? You're including a 13th round draft pick as one of the worst in White Sox history? We selected 16 players before Rogowski in the 1999 draft, which means we passed on Pujols a total of 17 times. We had 6 picks in the first two rounds of that draft and practically have nothing to show for them. Maybe you should be bringing up Rob Purvis' name instead.

 

All things considered, Rogowski was a pretty solid 13th round pick. He had a couple good seasons in the minors and was supposed to be included in the original Ken Griffey Jr. trade. It shouldn't be held against him that we and every other team in baseball passed on Pujols 10 times or more.

[Chicago White Sox]

You're going to miss on players. I think what it shows is that its a total myth the Sox draft position is what keeps them from developing great players. There are plenty available every season. They just haven't been very good at recognizing them over the years. Sure they haven't had the top pick slam dunk selection for years, but even when they had that incredible run with Himes, they were eyeing other players. They really wanted Harkey instead of McDowell but the Cubs picked him. They really wanted Jeff Jackson but the Phillies picked him and they had to take Frank Thomas. For some reason the Cubs selecting in front of the Sox and looking for a 3B for decades pass on Robin Ventura, and Alex Fernandez was a no brainer but Milwaukee drafted him in the first round 2 years earlier and didn't sign him.

I disagree wholeheartedly. If you take a look at the top 10 spots in the draft historically, there is a significantly higher percentage of impact players selected there than anywhere else in the draft just like there should be. Drafting in those spots doesn't guarantee you anything, but it does greatly improve your odds of drafting an impact player. Therefore, if you don't ever have a chance to draft in the top 10 spots, like the White Sox missed out on for a long period of time, you've greatly reduced your chances of getting such a player. Of course there are impact guys later in the first round and the rest of the draft, but it's exactly like Balta said, it becomes much more of a lottery. To be honest with you, I think the Sox have done an ok job with their later picks. Chris Young, Brandon McCarthy, and Chris Carter are just several that come to mind. It's the early picks that have killed us and I'm certain we'd have a few less misses if we were picking in the top 10 on a regular basis.

[Balta1701]

Are you serious? You're including a 13th round draft pick as one of the worst in White Sox history? We selected 16 players before Rogowski in the 1999 draft, which means we passed on Pujols a total of 17 times. We had 6 picks in the first two rounds of that draft and practically have nothing to show for them. Maybe you should be bringing up Rob Purvis' name instead.

 

All things considered, Rogowski was a pretty solid 13th round pick. He had a couple good seasons in the minors and was supposed to be included in the original Ken Griffey Jr. trade. It shouldn't be held against him that we and every other team in baseball passed on Pujols 10 times or more.

Exactly why pointing at the people we passed over in any particular draft is a silly way to judge the worst draft pick ever.

[Dick Allen]

I disagree wholeheartedly. If you take a look at the top 10 spots in the draft historically, there is a significantly higher percentage of impact players selected there than anywhere else in the draft just like there should be. Drafting in those spots doesn't guarantee you anything, but it does greatly improve your odds of drafting an impact player. Therefore, if you don't ever have a chance to draft in the top 10 spots, like the White Sox missed out on for a long period of time, you've greatly reduced your chances of getting such a player. Of course there are impact guys later in the first round and the rest of the draft, but it's exactly like Balta said, it becomes much more of a lottery. To be honest with you, I think the Sox have done an ok job with their later picks. Chris Young, Brandon McCarthy, and Chris Carter are just several that come to mind. It's the early picks that have killed us and I'm certain we'd have a few less misses if we were picking in the top 10 on a regular basis.

The year Lucy got drafted, which is the draft this entire conversion began around as many were mentioning names of players who were available when they took Lucy off the board, there is no mention that Lucy happened to be the 5th White Sox selection. They had already chosen Fields, Lundsen, Gio Gonzlez and Wes Whisler. They also took Ray Liotta in round 2. That is a very weak haul with 6 draft picks that high.

 

Anyone on soxtalk could have selected Beckham or Sale when they were on the board when the Sox picked. These scouts need to step up and pick some guys who are going to develop, either that, or maybe the Sox don't have the correct people developing players. There have been plenty of guys who have turned into pretty good players the Sox have passed on through the past 15 years or so while picking some real stiffs.

[Dick Allen]

Exactly why pointing at the people we passed over in any particular draft is a silly way to judge the worst draft pick ever.

So what you are saying is except for the obvious top picks, the entire draft is a crapshoot of epic proportions and really you shouldn't give anyone any credit for drafting a guywhere the Sox usually select who becomes successful, nor should you really hammer anyone for picking someone after the top 10 or so who doesn't make it because its more luck than good talent evaluation and projection?

 

In no way am I suggesting Donny Lucy is the worst pick ever. Wes Whisler was picked ahead of him and at least Lucy helped the Sox a tiny bit. But the Sox had ample opportunity that draft to really aid their team for a long time and failed miserably.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

The year Lucy got drafted, which is the draft this entire conversion began around as many were mentioning names of players who were available when they took Lucy off the board, there is no mention that Lucy happened to be the 5th White Sox selection. They had already chosen Fields, Lundsen, Gio Gonzlez and Wes Whisler. They also took Ray Liotta in round 2. That is a very weak haul with 6 draft picks that high.

Really, no it isn't. By my count, with 0 picks in the top 15, The Sox got 4 guys in the first 2 rounds who made appearances in the big leagues, one guy who looks to be a long term solid starting pitcher, another guy who had promise but blew out his knee. Out of their top 19 picks, 10 of them have made it to the big leagues in some form. I don't care if you're just filling up your bench, your bullpen, players 25-30 on your roster, or trade-bait, that is not terrible performance in the overall draft.

[Balta1701]

So what you are saying is except for the obvious top picks, the entire draft is a crapshoot of epic proportions and really you shouldn't give anyone any credit for drafting a guywhere the Sox usually select who becomes successful, nor should you really hammer anyone for picking someone after the top 10 or so who doesn't make it because its more luck than good talent evaluation and projection?

 

In no way am I suggesting Donny Lucy is the worst pick ever. Wes Whisler was picked ahead of him and at least Lucy helped the Sox a tiny bit. But the Sox had ample opportunity that draft to really aid their team for a long time and failed miserably.

I would say that outside of a handful of picks, the draft is a weighted lottery, with only small weightings. If you're exceptional on scouting, that will help some, but you will still have an enormous number of busts even on guys that look like sure things on day 1, and you'll totally miss guys who wind up being all stars. I'd wager that on the whole, player development within your minors correlates more strongly with major league performance than the quality of your pre-draft scouting.

 

If you play out enough seasons, some teams are going to have streaks where they nail 3-4 drafts in a row and have dynamite systems. It'll be especially helped if they spend a lot on the draft and lose a lot of MLB games/lose a lot of free agents to get extra picks. Then, those same teams will suddenly stop producing players, and everyone will wonder what happened.

[Marty34]

Really, no it isn't. By my count, with 0 picks in the top 15, The Sox got 4 guys in the first 2 rounds who made appearances in the big leagues, one guy who looks to be a long term solid starting pitcher, another guy who had promise but blew out his knee. Out of their top 19 picks, 10 of them have made it to the big leagues in some form. I don't care if you're just filling up your bench, your bullpen, players 25-30 on your roster, or trade-bait, that is not terrible performance in the overall draft.

 

Whisler and Lucy had no business being selected where they were.

[Dick Allen]

Really, no it isn't. By my count, with 0 picks in the top 15, The Sox got 4 guys in the first 2 rounds who made appearances in the big leagues, one guy who looks to be a long term solid starting pitcher, another guy who had promise but blew out his knee. Out of their top 19 picks, 10 of them have made it to the big leagues in some form. I don't care if you're just filling up your bench, your bullpen, players 25-30 on your roster, or trade-bait, that is not terrible performance in the overall draft.

If you don't think they had a bad draft based on the number of high selections they had, who they selected and who they passed up, I suppose if you were running an organinzation, you would spend little to no money on scouting and just do your draft off a subscription to BP or BA. There wasn't one guy of the 6 in the first 2 rounds that has a career WAR at least 0.0.

[Balta1701]

If you don't think they had a bad draft based on the number of high selections they had, who they selected and who they passed up, I suppose if you were running an organinzation, you would spend little to no money on scouting and just do your draft off a subscription to BP or BA. There wasn't one guy of the 6 in the first 2 rounds that has a career WAR at least 0.0.

That's a fascinating way of minimizing Gio.

[Dick Allen]

That's a fascinating way of minimizing Gio.

I like Gio, but the Sox had 6 picks of the first 70 picks and 6 years later all they have to show for it is a bloated contract with Mark Teahen. Why is it teams like Boston find the Pedroias or the Bards and the White Sox get the Lumsdens and Whislers? I don't think its just luck.

 

I'm happy you're satisfied with the Sox drafts over the years, and especially statisfied they had 3 or 4 guys have a cup of coffee in the big leagues when they could have drafted a future MVP or other useful parts. Maybe you are related to Duane Schaffer, but anyway you slice it, the 2004 draft was weak.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2010 by Dick Allen