Peavy recovery "slow but steady"

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...?obref=obinsite

 

Jake Peavy's long road to recovery is expected to take another step by the end of the week, although the White Sox veteran pitcher admits his rehabilitation remains lengthy.

 

Peavy plans to start light throwing, an ambitious task after suffering a detached latissimus dorsi muscle near his right shoulder nearly four months ago.

 

"I'm feeling as good as I think I can at this point," Peavy wrote in an e-mail. "I'm still trying to regain my strength. (That) has been the toughest part for me."

 

The plan was for Peavy to start slowly, but even that could be an ambitious task because of his strength. He hopes to start throwing off a mound in January, but that depends on strength built during rehabilitation.

 

The rarity of his injury is another reason why Peavy and the Sox are being cautious in his recovery. Already, there are plans to make Chris Sale a starter. Currently, Mark Buehrle, Edwin Jackson, Gavin Floyd and John Danks are either under contract or under the team's control.

 

[Balta1701]

Light throwing in November? Right on schedule still.

[chetkincaid]

Man I don't feel good at all about the Peavy situation. I'm in the mindset that anything we get from him would be a bonus. I don't mean to start another Edwin Jackson v. Dan Hudson flame fest, but the Peavy injury is another reason I feel good about having another experienced, hard throwing starter (Jackson) in a White Sox uniform next year.

[Texsox]

While the news is optimistic, I remain pessimistic.

[dpd9189]

While the news is optimistic, I remain pessimistic.

 

 

Anything the Sox get from Peavy now is just a bonus, I don't see him being the same pitcher he was when he won the Cy Young with SD in 07. Just too many injuries.

[chisoxt]

Man I don't feel good at all about the Peavy situation. I'm in the mindset that anything we get from him would be a bonus. I don't mean to start another Edwin Jackson v. Dan Hudson flame fest, but the Peavy injury is another reason I feel good about having another experienced, hard throwing starter (Jackson) in a White Sox uniform next year.

I understand what you're saying, Chet, but the dominoes started to fall with the acquisition of Peavy to begin with....when he went down, we had to counter his absence with another bad deal to get a replacement in Jackson.

 

I didn't feel good about the 'Peavy situation' when the trade was announced a year and a half ago.

[NorthSideSox72]

Anything the Sox get from Peavy now is just a bonus, I don't see him being the same pitcher he was when he won the Cy Young with SD in 07. Just too many injuries.

The bolded really doesn't make much sense, he's only had one pitching-related injury.

 

But I agree with your general point, that it isn't even so much a question of if he comes back healthy... its more about, if/when he does, will he be the same pitcher? My feeling is that he will profile like many pitchers after TJ or other major surgeries, where his first year back is a struggle, but second year back he has a good chance of fully rebounding.

 

[SoxFan1]

I would honestly rather not see him pitch for us until mid-way through the season in '11. Let him take all the time in the world to REALLY get back to 100%. If he's throwing off a mound in January, let him keep working his endurance and velocity up until he's Jake Peavy again. Trying to rush back will obviously only hurt him.

[fathom]

I would honestly rather not see him pitch for us until mid-way through the season in '11. Let him take all the time in the world to REALLY get back to 100%. If he's throwing off a mound in January, let him keep working his endurance and velocity up until he's Jake Peavy again. Trying to rush back will obviously only hurt him.

 

One of the problems with the Hudson for Jackson trade though is that you really have to go for it all in 2011. If you hold off Peavy until the ASB, then he'll probably struggle the rest of the year to find a rhythm. Rather just take your lumps as you go with him....sadly, he's getting paid SO MUCH money that your team is likely screwed if such a high priced player can't contribute (unless you're Yanks or Red Sox).

[Texsox]

The bolded really doesn't make much sense, he's only had one pitching-related injury.

 

But I agree with your general point, that it isn't even so much a question of if he comes back healthy... its more about, if/when he does, will he be the same pitcher? My feeling is that he will profile like many pitchers after TJ or other major surgeries, where his first year back is a struggle, but second year back he has a good chance of fully rebounding.

 

 

I agree 99% with this, but the rest of the body has to work also. For example, leg injuries lead to adjustments that lead to more adjustments, etc. Which leads to my pessimism with him. And I am usually the ray of sunshine with this kind of stuff.

[ptatc]

I would honestly rather not see him pitch for us until mid-way through the season in '11. Let him take all the time in the world to REALLY get back to 100%. If he's throwing off a mound in January, let him keep working his endurance and velocity up until he's Jake Peavy again. Trying to rush back will obviously only hurt him.

 

He will be ready in time. The length of time it takes to rehab a tendon injury is well within the timeframe the team has set. Starting his throwing and getting ready for the season isn't rushing him. He will be 100% healthy.

The question remains if he can pitch effectively without dropping his arm angle down too low. His shoulder angle dropped down to sidearm while his torso remained upright during the pitch where he had the injury. I have not doubt that his tendency to drop down on pitches when he is trying to fool hitters was the cause of the shoulder soreness and eventual tendon rupture.

[Balta1701]

He will be ready in time. The length of time it takes to rehab a tendon injury is well within the timeframe the team has set. Starting his throwing and getting ready for the season isn't rushing him. He will be 100% healthy.

The question remains if he can pitch effectively without dropping his arm angle down too low. His shoulder angle dropped down to sidearm while his torso remained upright during the pitch where he had the injury. I have not doubt that his tendency to drop down on pitches when he is trying to fool hitters was the cause of the shoulder soreness and eventual tendon rupture.

Pt, I'm trying to understand exactly where you think the injury happened here. My impression was that Peavy's mechanics were never that great, but he had survived with them for several years. This year, Cooper had him trying to improve his mechanics in the spring, and he came out and struggled. Then, he tried going back to what he was doing before, but started complaining about shoulder tightness during the couple weeks before things finally snapped.

 

Are you saying that his injury came about due to his mechanics during the couple weeks before the injury when he was complaining about tightness, or are you saying this injury is related to his longer-term mechanics issues?

[NorthSideSox72]

Pt, I'm trying to understand exactly where you think the injury happened here. My impression was that Peavy's mechanics were never that great, but he had survived with them for several years. This year, Cooper had him trying to improve his mechanics in the spring, and he came out and struggled. Then, he tried going back to what he was doing before, but started complaining about shoulder tightness during the couple weeks before things finally snapped.

 

Are you saying that his injury came about due to his mechanics during the couple weeks before the injury when he was complaining about tightness, or are you saying this injury is related to his longer-term mechanics issues?

Sounds to me like he's saying it was a feedback loop. Mechanics caused soreness and initial problems, his arm slot dropped, arm pain got worse, arm slot worsened, and so on.

 

[Balta1701]

Sounds to me like he's saying it was a feedback loop. Mechanics caused soreness and initial problems, his arm slot dropped, arm pain got worse, arm slot worsened, and so on.

The question is...which mechanics? If it was his normal (Pre-10) mechanics that caused the initial soreness and injury problems...then he might not be able to be effective coming back...as he'd have to choose between his crappy mechanics that allowed him to get outs or better mechanics where he couldn't get people out.

[NorthSideSox72]

The question is...which mechanics? If it was his normal (Pre-10) mechanics that caused the initial soreness and injury problems...then he might not be able to be effective coming back...as he'd have to choose between his crappy mechanics that allowed him to get outs or better mechanics where he couldn't get people out.

I have no idea. Hopefully ptatc can clarify for you.

 

[3E8]

The bolded really doesn't make much sense, he's only had one pitching-related injury.

Peavy has had one pitching-related injury with the White Sox, but several more with the Padres.

 

2004: Missed 43 days due to elbow strain

2005: Missed 11 days due to shoulder soreness

2006: Missed 8 days due to shoulder tendinitis

2008: Missed 28 days due to elbow strain

[NorthSideSox72]

Peavy has had one pitching-related injury with the White Sox, but several more with the Padres.

 

2004: Missed 43 days due to elbow strain

2005: Missed 11 days due to shoulder soreness

2006: Missed 8 days due to shoulder tendinitis

2008: Missed 28 days due to elbow strain

Wow, I actually didn't know that. And that does lend credence to the idea that his mechanics were problematic in the first place, in the chicken and egg discussion.

 

[3E8]

Wow, I actually didn't know that. And that does lend credence to the idea that his mechanics were problematic in the first place, in the chicken and egg discussion.

According to Chris O'Leary (who has been noticeably accurate in predicting injury issues with pitchers), Peavy's mechanics have always been such to make him susceptible to elbow/shoulder injury

 

Jake Peavy Pitching Mechanics Analysis

[Balta1701]

According to Chris O'Leary (who has been noticeably accurate in predicting injury issues with pitchers), Peavy's mechanics have always been such to make him susceptible to elbow/shoulder injury

 

Jake Peavy Pitching Mechanics Analysis

In general though, the "Inverted V" issue typically is expected to translate more to issues with the elbow, rather than issues with the shoulder. We hear about the inverted V issues for pitchers a lot, and usually it's in association with Tommy John surgery. A fair number of people, especially hard throwers coming up, have that same issue, and this injury for Peavy still remains quite unique. That's why I asked Pt exactly which part of his mechanics he was referring to. If it's the inverted V problem...why did his shoulder go out like this, rather than something more expected like elbow trouble?

[NorthSideSox72]

In general though, the "Inverted V" issue typically is expected to translate more to issues with the elbow, rather than issues with the shoulder. We hear about the inverted V issues for pitchers a lot, and usually it's in association with Tommy John surgery. A fair number of people, especially hard throwers coming up, have that same issue, and this injury for Peavy still remains quite unique. That's why I asked Pt exactly which part of his mechanics he was referring to. If it's the inverted V problem...why did his shoulder go out like this, rather than something more expected like elbow trouble?

Beyond the arm angle, the other thing that always looked bad to me in his mechanics was the last minute twist of the torso to get more torque and power (but it also means he throws more across his body, and with less fluidity). Clayton Richard does the same thing. Seems like maybe that might have played a factor here.

 

[chisoxt]

Wow, I actually didn't know that. And that does lend credence to the idea that his mechanics were problematic in the first place, in the chicken and egg discussion.

This information in and of itself, begs the question why the trade was made to begin with, without any kind of salary releif. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

[fathom]

This information in and of itself, begs the question why the trade was made to begin with, without any kind of salary releif. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

 

There are rumors out there that the Sox have a very nice insurance policy taken out for Peavy. And yes, the Padres were very happy to unload him with all of the injury/other concerns about him.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

The Peavy deal will go down as Kenny's worst of all.

[ptatc]

Pt, I'm trying to understand exactly where you think the injury happened here. My impression was that Peavy's mechanics were never that great, but he had survived with them for several years. This year, Cooper had him trying to improve his mechanics in the spring, and he came out and struggled. Then, he tried going back to what he was doing before, but started complaining about shoulder tightness during the couple weeks before things finally snapped.

 

Are you saying that his injury came about due to his mechanics during the couple weeks before the injury when he was complaining about tightness, or are you saying this injury is related to his longer-term mechanics issues?

 

As many of the previous posts have said his mechanics aren't great to begin with but they aren't too bad. Most of the research on mechanics shows that the more you drop your shoulder and straighten your elbow the more likely you are to have injury issues.

 

the biggest problem I have with Peavy is that he likes to drop down to give the hitter a different look. Cooper tried to limit this early in the season and Peavy was nit having a good season. He went back to his old style of pitching where he would frequently do this and that's when the shoulder "tightness" issues began to show up. On the pitch where he ruptured the lat tendon he really dropped down.

 

His injury will heal and he'll be 100%. I'm just not sure if he can pitch effectively without "dropping down." Whether it's the movement on the ball or mental, he doesn't seem to be able to pitch effectively without it, at least not with the Sox.

 

Does this clarify it?

 

[ptatc]

In general though, the "Inverted V" issue typically is expected to translate more to issues with the elbow, rather than issues with the shoulder. We hear about the inverted V issues for pitchers a lot, and usually it's in association with Tommy John surgery. A fair number of people, especially hard throwers coming up, have that same issue, and this injury for Peavy still remains quite unique. That's why I asked Pt exactly which part of his mechanics he was referring to. If it's the inverted V problem...why did his shoulder go out like this, rather than something more expected like elbow trouble?

 

While the inverted V is usually talked about with elbow problems it can lead to shoulder problems as well. The quick and large range of motion for external rotation can lead to loosening the shoulder joint capsule and lead to increased wear and tear. However you're right about the elbow because most pitcher's compensate but not bending the elbow enough and bringing the arm through that way. It leads to stress on the elbow.

 

I don't think any of this had to do with this unique injury. It's more Peavy's penchant for dropping both down to gain movement that worries me.