Cooper wants Sale in 2011 bullpen

[Balta1701]

Merkin has a long piece on Sale's role next year. Some money bits.

Sale, 21, would serve as an insurance policy for Jake Peavy's recovery from surgery to repair a detached latissimus dorsi muscle in his right posterior shoulder. If Peavy needed April to build up full strength, Sale could slide in at the rotation's fifth spot and then move back to the bullpen upon Peavy's return.

 

Pitching coach Don Cooper certainly wants Sale working at the big league level, after watching him dominate to the tune of a 1.93 ERA and four saves over 21 games. But Cooper doesn't know if the plan for Sale to serve as an April fill-in and then once again provide relief best fits his development.

 

"I would have to hear the reasons to start this guy for a month," said Cooper of Sale. "I don't think a kid like this needs to be bounced around. I like him in the bullpen for the 2011 season.

 

"In my mind, Sale and [Matt] Thornton are two really good lefties I would like to have in the bullpen. I do seem him as a starter long range. I'm just not so sure that range is in April."

 

Williams clearly pointed out that under the Sale spot-starting plan, the health of the other starters would be examined when Peavy returned. He added a six-man rotation then could become a possibility, "to make sure everyone is strong throughout the season."

 

With starting pitchers being creatures of habit, growing accustomed to primarily working on four days' rest, that second option seems unlikely. Basically, Williams provided scenarios in which a spectacular Sale could remain as a starter past what might be needed in April.

 

A versatile hurler such as Tony Pena seems more likely to fill a temporary rotation void, having been used in both the long-relief role and in three starts last season. Pena earned $1.2 million in 2010 and stands as arbitration-eligible, so the White Sox have to decide if they want to make an increased financial commitment to the right-hander.

 

Of course, if the White Sox decide to trade a starter such as Gavin Floyd, Edwin Jackson or possibly John Danks to strengthen another area of the team, Sale would slide nicely into the rotation.

 

"Whatever the organization decides to do with Sale, we'll go with," Cooper said. "If they say he's starting, we'll get him ready to do it. I have no problem with that."

 

As for Peavy, Cooper has heard nothing but positive things about the right-hander's recovery and plans to check in with him this week as Peavy starts playing catch and throwing.

[ptatc]

Merkin has a long piece on Sale's role next year. Some money bits.

 

I love how little research the writers do on injuries. They are all reporting that Peavy's injury is in the posterior aspect of his shoulder. While the muscles is on the back the tendon actually wraps around to the front and it's an anterior shoulder problem and all of the surgery and rehab focuses on the anterior shoulder not the posterior.

[southsider2k5]

I hate the idea of Sale in our pen unless the plan is to make him the long term closer.

[Rowand44]

I agree with Mr. Cooper. It's a really, really tough decision but the fact that our pen is quite thin at the moment and we don't have a lot of money to work with, Chris almost has to be apart of it if we have thoughts of being contenders this season.

[Paint it Black]

The White Sox know he's a pen arm. It's not necessarily a bad thing either. I just don't know how people can see his delivery and think he can start.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The White Sox know he's a pen arm. It's not necessarily a bad thing either. I just don't know how people can see his delivery and think he can start.

 

I hope to god you're lying. Otherwise there was no reason to take him with the 13th pick.

[joeynach]

I agree 100% with this. He is such a huge addition to our bullpen and having a strong bullpen is absolutely essential to having a winning team. We have some decent starting depth at the moment, especially if Peavy returns OK. That being said 2012 and beyond i have no problem with the sox seeing if he can become a young solid starter such as Danks or Flloyd.

[MattZakrowski]

Hey, who wants to waste a Chris Sale team controlled year?

 

/Don Cooper raises hand

[southsider2k5]

I agree 100% with this. He is such a huge addition to our bullpen and having a strong bullpen is absolutely essential to having a winning team. We have some decent starting depth at the moment, especially if Peavy returns OK. That being said 2012 and beyond i have no problem with the sox seeing if he can become a young solid starter such as Danks or Flloyd.

 

If Peavy does come back at 100%, I would rather see Edwin Jackson get a shot at closing with Sale in the rotation. I think with Jacksons stuff, he could be one hell of a closer because he wouldn't have to pace himself out at all.

[Jerksticks]

If Peavy does come back at 100%, I would rather see Edwin Jackson get a shot at closing with Sale in the rotation. I think with Jacksons stuff, he could be one hell of a closer because he wouldn't have to pace himself out at all.

 

No way. Jacks can throw 8 Innings of shut-out ball any given start.

 

I love having Sale in the pen for 2011. I don't see it as wasting the draft pick since our first rounders usually suck anyway.

[Quin]

As a swingman or a closer?

 

If he's the Swingman (instead of Pena) it could still stretch him out for starting in 2012.

 

If closer...I'm confused.

 

Anything else is a bad move.

[southsider2k5]

No way. Jacks can throw 8 Innings of shut-out ball any given start.

 

I love having Sale in the pen for 2011. I don't see it as wasting the draft pick since our first rounders usually suck anyway.

 

Jackson is under our control for one more year, Sale is for 6. To me, that is the difference here.

[macsandz]

Can this team's braintrust get on the same damn page for once?!

Edited November 9, 2010 by bucket-of-suck

[JorgeFabregas]

Are bullpen guys any less likely to get hurt than starters? Sure, they don't have the wear and tear of innings pitched, but they have less recovery time and more frequent bullpen sessions. If the Sox think Sale will always be injury-prone because of his motion, then the most strategic and mercenary move would be to have him start in order to get good innings out of him while he's super cheap.

[fathom]

Sale needs to go into Spring Training as a starter. There's still plenty of time to make him a reliever if things don't go well as a starter. I'd be shocked if he went to ST as a starter if he didn't end up making the 25 man roster as one of our top 5.

 

 

[Paint it Black]

I hope to god you're lying. Otherwise there was no reason to take him with the 13th pick.

I dunno. I guess on one had, if he becomes a dominant 8th inning guy or closer, it's a bit disappointing. But on the other hand, to be a bit cynical, it's better than the AA college bat that flames out that has been the recent trend.

 

I believe that having Sale up last year in August pitching in relief should tell you all you need to know about what the White Sox think of him. I like the arm and his stuff is good, but I think he lacks another pitch to start.

[rockren]

This is a bigger decision than people think.

 

Look at what happened to Joba Chamberlain. They decided to bring him out of the pen to start his career and he was dynamite. I was at the Cell in '08 when he blew Konerko and Thome away without any trouble (a few 99 mph fastballs topped off with one of the nastier sliders I've ever seen). Sure Joba eventually lost that game to a walk off single to everyone's hero, Joe Crede.

 

Anyway- you all all know the history since and New York decided to make Joba a starter...that didn't go so well. Everyone in the Yankee organization assumed they could just make him a reliever again and guess what? He's nowhere near what he was coming out of the pen before. I wouldn't call Joba's shot at becoming an elite reliever again over...but people fear he could be ruined.

 

If the WSox drafted Sale as a future starter, then they need to start him in AAA as a starter if he isn't starting in the big leagues. If they decided to change their minds and use him as a reliever- then they need to mold him as a potential set-up man and groom him to be a closer in the making. The WSox can't afford to be in between on this decision.

 

I'm all for developing him as a starter.

[witesoxfan]

This is a bigger decision than people think.

 

Look at what happened to Joba Chamberlain. They decided to bring him out of the pen to start his career and he was dynamite. I was at the Cell in '08 when he blew Konerko and Thome away without any trouble (a few 99 mph fastballs topped off with one of the nastier sliders I've ever seen). Sure Joba eventually lost that game to a walk off single to everyone's hero, Joe Crede.

 

Anyway- you all all know the history since and New York decided to make Joba a starter...that didn't go so well. Everyone in the Yankee organization assumed they could just make him a reliever again and guess what? He's nowhere near what he was coming out of the pen before. I wouldn't call Joba's shot at becoming an elite reliever again over...but people fear he could be ruined.

 

If the WSox drafted Sale as a future starter, then they need to start him in AAA as a starter if he isn't starting in the big leagues. If they decided to change their minds and use him as a reliever- then they need to mold him as a potential set-up man and groom him to be a closer in the making. The WSox can't afford to be in between on this decision.

 

I'm all for developing him as a starter.

 

The problem with this is that you are looking at one isolated incident and using it as basis for the White Sox doing the same thing with Chris Sale. Beyond that, as with any reliever, sample size is a huge concern, and 71 IP for Joba Chamberlain isn't enough to discern that he is suddenly a bad reliever. He had a 2.98 FIP, 3.34 xFIP, and a 0.86 WPA, and he was especially hurt by 5 games...

 

May 16 - 0.2 IP, 2 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

May 18 - 1 IP, 4 H, 3 ER (4 R)

May 29 - 0.1 IP, 4 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

June 17 - 0 IP, 2 H, 3 ER, 1 BB

July 10 - 1 IP, 3 H, 4 ER, 1 BB

Total - 5 G, 3 IP, 15 H, 17 ER, 4 BB, 2 K

 

That's going to destroy anyone's season. His line, minus those 5 games - 68 G, 68.2 IP, 2.36 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 9.83 K/9, 2.46 BB/9, 4.17 K/BB. You obviously can't specifically cherry pick statistics like this, but you also can't look at a reliever's raw numbers and automatically assume that they were poor, because there can be a handful of bad outings that really trash a relievers' season numbers when he has pitched a lot better than that.

 

(Joba would be a great buy low candidate too if the Yankees are down on him at all)

[rockren]

(Joba would be a great buy low candidate too if the Yankees are down on him at all)

 

Strongly agree.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I hope to god you're lying. Otherwise there was no reason to take him with the 13th pick.

 

I agree. Taking a reliever with the 13th overall pick is a laughable idea. I will flip if the Sox decide to make him a bullpen pitcher.

[justBLAZE]

I've been saying this since last year but I have a feeling Sale is your 2011 closer.

[Balta1701]

(Joba would be a great buy low candidate too if the Yankees are down on him at all)

The problem with the Yankees is that they're not going to sell him low unless they sign a replacement first, and they've had weak middle relief so many years in a row it's hard to see them saying "We're now in a position to dump middle relievers". I mean, if you offered up a legit reliever...say "Matt Thornton", they'd bite, but they're not likely to deal him unless they can seriously upgrade that position.

[NorthSideSox72]

I still think this decision will be guided by the 90% chance that the Sox trade an SP, likely Danks or Floyd.

 

[Balta1701]

If Peavy does come back at 100%, I would rather see Edwin Jackson get a shot at closing with Sale in the rotation. I think with Jacksons stuff, he could be one hell of a closer because he wouldn't have to pace himself out at all.

By the way...giving up Hudson, getting back a very good month of August, a poor month of September, and then a 1 year experiment as a closer? Yuck.

[LittleHurt05]

I agree. Taking a reliever with the 13th overall pick is a laughable idea. I will flip if the Sox decide to make him a bullpen pitcher.

 

How about if he becomes a top closer? Is that still a waste of the 13th pick?