Cooper wants Sale in 2011 bullpen

[Balta1701]

How about if he becomes a top closer? Is that still a waste of the 13th pick?

Frankly, yeah, it's still disappointing. If you're going to spend the 13th pick on a pitcher, you don't really want a guy who's ceiling is 60 innings. Closers are too easy/too cheap to find compared to starting pitching.

[3E8]

Do you guys think Sale is ready to begin the 2011 season in the starting rotation? He has never started a game in professional ball, and wasn't made a starter at the collegiate level until his second year. Basically in the past three years, he has started less than 30 games. Before entering the Sox rotation, he's going to need significant time at the minor league level. To start this process next season means a talented cheap-as-possible arm is removed from the bullpen, and leaves us with 5 pen spots to fill on an already tight budget. I'm all for maximizing Sale's value and making him a starter, but I agree with Cooper that it shouldn't be started next season.

[LittleHurt05]

Frankly, yeah, it's still disappointing. If you're going to spend the 13th pick on a pitcher, you don't really want a guy who's ceiling is 60 innings. Closers are too easy/too cheap to find compared to starting pitching.

 

I hear you on that. Its just that the MLB draft can be such a crapshoot, that if he turns out to be a great closer, not a starter, it may be a slight disappointment, but not a complete waste. Also, if he stays in the bullpen in 2011 or 2012, then stretches out to be a starter, thats fine IMO if thats what the team needs. It may be better on his arm as well.

[The Gooch]

Everyone against Sale in the bullpen might change their tune even if he pitches well, when he loses all of his leads because our bullpen sucks.

[Balta1701]

Do you guys think Sale is ready to begin the 2011 season in the starting rotation? He has never started a game in professional ball, and wasn't made a starter at the collegiate level until his second year. Basically in the past three years, he has started less than 30 games. Before entering the Sox rotation, he's going to need significant time at the minor league level. To start this process next season means a talented cheap-as-possible arm is removed from the bullpen, and leaves us with 5 pen spots to fill on an already tight budget. I'm all for maximizing Sale's value and making him a starter, but I agree with Cooper that it shouldn't be started next season.

On average, your typical 5th starter picks up only about 20-25 starts and throws about 120-ish innings. Sale hasn't made 30 starts, but he's pitched around 150+ innings each of the last 2 years. If Sale does what he's done the last few years...he'll be more than adequate in the 5th starter role. The guy has already proven he can get people out at the major league level, the guy has proven he can carry the innings load against lesser competition. It's possible he could still benefit from some time in the minor leagues...in particular if he has any issues with the control on his tertiary offspeed pitches.

 

The injury issue is the other thing to consider...but then, why would you make him a starter in the first place if you thought he was going to get hurt pitching 175 innings this year?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

How about if he becomes a top closer? Is that still a waste of the 13th pick?

 

If they didn't at least try him out as a starter, yes.

[southsider2k5]

Everyone against Sale in the bullpen might change their tune even if he pitches well, when he loses all of his leads because our bullpen sucks.

 

The problem is that I don't want his future as a starter sacrificed for immediate gains in the pen. We have five starters right now, if Peavy is healthy. We could have five starters if we resign Garcia, and Peavy isn't ready. I would much rather see Chris go to Charlotte and log his 180 innings this year, and be ready to really help the team as a starter in 2011, than to have him in the pen, even as a valued member of the pen in 2010.

[3E8]

On average, your typical 5th starter picks up only about 20-25 starts and throws about 120-ish innings. Sale hasn't made 30 starts, but he's pitched around 150+ innings each of the last 2 years. If Sale does what he's done the last few years...he'll be more than adequate in the 5th starter role. The guy has already proven he can get people out at the major league level, the guy has proven he can carry the innings load against lesser competition. It's possible he could still benefit from some time in the minor leagues...in particular if he has any issues with the control on his tertiary offspeed pitches.

 

The injury issue is the other thing to consider...but then, why would you make him a starter in the first place if you thought he was going to get hurt pitching 175 innings this year?

You have to consider in the past two years when Sale was racking up innings as a starter, his competition was the D-I Atlantic Sun conference. To pitch over 100 innings against the American League will be drastically more challenging for Sale. He proved he can get major league hitters out as a reliever, where his appearances are short. Working out of the pen kept his velocity up and allowed him to be a two-pitch pitcher. This won't be a recipe for success as a starter when he has to throw 100 pitches per appearance and his velocity dips back down to the low 90s. It isn't just possible Sale would benefit from time in the minors if he is to become a starter, it is definite. He needs to develop his change up and prove he can maintain success as a starter against tougher AA/AAA competition before joining the Sox rotation.

[elrockinMT]

I think that you listen to your pitching coach

[RockRaines]

You have to consider in the past two years when Sale was racking up innings as a starter, his competition was the D-I Atlantic Sun conference. To pitch over 100 innings against the American League will be drastically more challenging for Sale. He proved he can get major league hitters out as a reliever, where his appearances are short. Working out of the pen kept his velocity up and allowed him to be a two-pitch pitcher. This won't be a recipe for success as a starter when he has to throw 100 pitches per appearance and his velocity dips back down to the low 90s. It isn't just possible Sale would benefit from time in the minors if he is to become a starter, it is definite. He needs to develop his change up and prove he can maintain success as a starter against tougher AA/AAA competition before joining the Sox rotation.

I believe his change was rated higher than his slider which he used primarily as his offspeed pitch out of the bullpen. Not sure pitch development is a very big issue for this kid.

[3E8]

I believe his change was rated higher than his slider which he used primarily as his offspeed pitch out of the bullpen. Not sure pitch development is a very big issue for this kid.

You would be incorrect. It was clear from watching the games that Sale was just throwing fastballs and sliders, but here is pitch F/X data as well:

 

Sale Pitch F/X

 

67.5% fastballs

28.1% slider

1.6% change (6 total pitches)

[RockRaines]

You would be incorrect. It was clear from watching the games that Sale was just throwing fastballs and sliders, but here is pitch F/X data as well:

 

Sale Pitch F/X

 

67.5% fastballs

28.1% slider

1.6% change (6 total pitches)

What does that have to do with his change being the most developed before he set foot on the field for the Sox? Like I said, his slider was his offspeed pitch out of the bullpen, but coming out of college his wipeout pitch was his change, and by car the most talked about breaking pitch in his arsenal.

 

 

 

Changeup: Sale’s main off-speed pitch is a swing-and-miss changeup at the college level with a lot of movement. The change will register 81-83 mph, which is a decent speed differential from his fastball.

 

 

http://projectprospect.com/article/2010/05...scouting-report