White Sox Off-Season Catch All Thread

[jenksycat]

And nothing says "stunting a career" like throwing your 1st RD draft pick into a career in the bullpen before he ever gets a fair shot at starting.

 

Drafting a reliever in the 1st RD is an awful way to draft.

 

Yep, 1 year out of the bullpen so the team has a chance at greater things will cripple him beyond repair. You got me there, I think we should just keep him in AAA for the whole season then, juts to be safe.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yep, 1 year out of the bullpen so the team has a chance at greater things will cripple him beyond repair. You got me there, I think we should just keep him in AAA for the whole season then, juts to be safe.

 

Having him spend 1 more year in the bullpen means it will take 1 more year to get his accustomed to starting again. Maybe this makes too much sense, but if you are trying to build up a youngsters arm for a future starting job, making reducing the amount of innings pitched each year isn't the best policy.

 

And what happens if he does really well in the bullpen this year? Then next year you just strip him from the bullpen and create a hole on a player you relied on in the bullpen? And if Sale is a reliever again in 2010, then who takes over for Buehrle in 2011 in the rotation? Because Sale sure as hell won't be ready for the rotation probably 2013 if you have to stretch him arm out again because of an extra year in the 'pen.

 

And to whoever used the Neftali Felix comparison.....how can you even use that in your arguement when we have yet to see Felix start? Just because it's their plan doesn't mean it will work out for them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Felix struggle a bit in April and then management decide "You know what, he was great for us in the pen and this starter thing isn't working out so far. Let's just put him back into the role we know he can succeed at". And then BAM, you've just gone the easy way and ended his starting career before he even got a fair chance because his bullpen success has given the coach a reason to keep a good thing going.

 

And then you've just drafted (in Sales case) a reliever with your 1st RD pick, and that's about as dumb as it gets.

[chw42]

Sox sign Josh Kinney to a minor league deal.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Having him spend 1 more year in the bullpen means it will take 1 more year to get his accustomed to starting again. Maybe this makes too much sense, but if you are trying to build up a youngsters arm for a future starting job, making reducing the amount of innings pitched each year isn't the best policy.

 

And what happens if he does really well in the bullpen this year? Then next year you just strip him from the bullpen and create a hole on a player you relied on in the bullpen? And if Sale is a reliever again in 2010, then who takes over for Buehrle in 2011 in the rotation? Because Sale sure as hell won't be ready for the rotation probably 2013 if you have to stretch him arm out again because of an extra year in the 'pen.

 

And to whoever used the Neftali Felix comparison.....how can you even use that in your arguement when we have yet to see Felix start? Just because it's their plan doesn't mean it will work out for them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Felix struggle a bit in April and then management decide "You know what, he was great for us in the pen and this starter thing isn't working out so far. Let's just put him back into the role we know he can succeed at". And then BAM, you've just gone the easy way and ended his starting career before he even got a fair chance because his bullpen success has given the coach a reason to keep a good thing going.

 

And then you've just drafted (in Sales case) a reliever with your 1st RD pick, and that's about as dumb as it gets.

 

Good post. And another thing worth mentioning is that Neftali Feliz was an amateur FA signing by the Atlanta Braves. Not the 13th overall pick of a draft. We have A LOT more invested in Sale than the Braves and now Rangers did/do in Feliz. And how can one forget the B-Mac debacle of 2006? Remember the plan? Stick him in the 'pen and if a starter gets hurt or needs to skip a start or two you can just automatically insert Brandon into the rotation? When it was clear as day that guys like Freddy and Mark had tired arms and could use a mini-break the rebuttal by Ozzie and Coop when asked of inserting Brandon into the rotation for a while was 'His arm is simply not stretched out enough.'

 

[maggsmaggs]

Sox sign Josh Kinney to a minor league deal.

Good signing. Had a couple good years with the Cardinals and was really good in the minor last year (1.80 ERA). Maybe catch lightning in a bottle.

[southsider2k5]

Having him spend 1 more year in the bullpen means it will take 1 more year to get his accustomed to starting again. Maybe this makes too much sense, but if you are trying to build up a youngsters arm for a future starting job, making reducing the amount of innings pitched each year isn't the best policy.

 

And what happens if he does really well in the bullpen this year? Then next year you just strip him from the bullpen and create a hole on a player you relied on in the bullpen? And if Sale is a reliever again in 2010, then who takes over for Buehrle in 2011 in the rotation? Because Sale sure as hell won't be ready for the rotation probably 2013 if you have to stretch him arm out again because of an extra year in the 'pen.

 

And to whoever used the Neftali Felix comparison.....how can you even use that in your arguement when we have yet to see Felix start? Just because it's their plan doesn't mean it will work out for them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Felix struggle a bit in April and then management decide "You know what, he was great for us in the pen and this starter thing isn't working out so far. Let's just put him back into the role we know he can succeed at". And then BAM, you've just gone the easy way and ended his starting career before he even got a fair chance because his bullpen success has given the coach a reason to keep a good thing going.

 

And then you've just drafted (in Sales case) a reliever with your 1st RD pick, and that's about as dumb as it gets.

 

That is exactly how I feel about it. It helps the team in 2011, but it hurts them in 2012 and on when Sale isn't ready to start. Being a starting pitcher is akin to being a marathon runner. Just because you can run a nice 100 meter time, doesn't mean you can do that for 26.2 miles. You have to build up and condition yourself to get up to that distance. Going 200 innings in a year is the same way. If you are conditioned for it, you are going to do your body more harm than good if you just try to go out and run a marathon without being prepared for it.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Nothing says "going for it" like sending your 1st or 2nd best reliever down to AAA.

 

Wow, best reliever in the pen? Based on what body of work? I think even second best is a generous stretch.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. He's probably capable of it, I'd love to see it, but lets hold off on crowning Chris Sale after one partial season of relief pitching. I'll feel a lot better if come July he's still getting people out.

 

Sox also sign Shane Lindsay. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/whit...ey-lindsay.html

Edited January 9, 2011 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[Jordan4life_2007]

That is exactly how I feel about it. It helps the team in 2011, but it hurts them in 2012 and on when Sale isn't ready to start. Being a starting pitcher is akin to being a marathon runner. Just because you can run a nice 100 meter time, doesn't mean you can do that for 26.2 miles. You have to build up and condition yourself to get up to that distance. Going 200 innings in a year is the same way. If you are conditioned for it, you are going to do your body more harm than good if you just try to go out and run a marathon without being prepared for it.

 

Wow, this shocks me coming from you. I totally agree with everything you said.

[BigSqwert]

My goodness. Reading Oney Guillen on twitter is like reading something from an idiotic 13 year old.

[chw42]

My goodness. Reading Oney Guillen on twitter is like reading something from an idiotic 13 year old.

 

His dad doesn't act that much older.

[southsider2k5]

His dad doesn't act that much older.

 

His dad at least has an excuse as he quit school after something like 6th or 7th grade to play baseball.

[Milkman delivers]

That is exactly how I feel about it. It helps the team in 2011, but it hurts them in 2012 and on when Sale isn't ready to start. Being a starting pitcher is akin to being a marathon runner. Just because you can run a nice 100 meter time, doesn't mean you can do that for 26.2 miles. You have to build up and condition yourself to get up to that distance. Going 200 innings in a year is the same way. If you are conditioned for it, you are going to do your body more harm than good if you just try to go out and run a marathon without being prepared for it.

 

All I care about at this point is 2011, and the White Sox have shown that they are in this season to go for it all. That means having Chris Sale in the bullpen. I personally don't give a f*** about his career (not to be an asshole, but I seriously don't give a s*** about one particular player). The best option for the 2011 team is to have Sale in the bullpen. If that screws up his career in the worst case scenario, so be it.

[southsider2k5]

All I care about at this point is 2011, and the White Sox have shown that they are in this season to go for it all. That means having Chris Sale in the bullpen. I personally don't give a f*** about his career (not to be an asshole, but I seriously don't give a s*** about one particular player). The best option for the 2011 team is to have Sale in the bullpen. If that screws up his career in the worst case scenario, so be it.

 

The problem is Chris Sale's future IS the White Sox future. If we screw up his arm, we still have to replace him.

[jenksycat]

The problem is Chris Sale's future IS the White Sox future. If we screw up his arm, we still have to replace him.

 

Not in 2011 you don't

[3E8]

According to @gordonbeckham, day 1 of Camp Cora is complete and Morel, Alexei, and Tank look ready. And South Beach has good food.

[Milkman delivers]

Not in 2011 you don't

 

Exactly.

 

EDIT: Glad to finally agree with you on something, lol

Edited January 10, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[jenksycat]

According to @gordonbeckham, day 1 of Camp Cora is complete and Morel, Alexei, and Tank look ready. And South Beach has good food.

 

So could you say he took his talents to south beach?

[chw42]

So could you say he took his talents to south beach?

 

As did Brent Morel, Dayan Viciedo, and all of camp Cora. God save us all.

[jenksycat]

Exactly.

 

EDIT: Glad to finally agree with you on something, lol

 

That was the point of my whole argument, we're going for it in 2011 so you don't care "what about Sale in 2014??????".

 

I also don't buy that 1 year in the bullpen will hurt his arm or any of that bs.

[Milkman delivers]

That was the point of my whole argument, we're going for it in 2011 so you don't care "what about Sale in 2014??????".

 

I also don't buy that 1 year in the bullpen will hurt his arm or any of that bs.

 

Completely agree on all of that.

[southsider2k5]

That was the point of my whole argument, we're going for it in 2011 so you don't care "what about Sale in 2014??????".

 

I also don't buy that 1 year in the bullpen will hurt his arm or any of that bs.

 

It will retard his growth towards being a 200 inning pitcher. There are pretty clear studies that show how the growth of a pitchers arm needs to be done. Forget 2014, we don't have starters for 2012. If Sale hasn't pushed into the 160 to 170 inning range this year, he won't be ready to be a 6 inning pitcher for 2012 when we need him as a starter.

[jenksycat]

It will retard his growth towards being a 200 inning pitcher. There are pretty clear studies that show how the growth of a pitchers arm needs to be done. Forget 2014, we don't have starters for 2012. If Sale hasn't pushed into the 160 to 170 inning range this year, he won't be ready to be a 6 inning pitcher for 2012 when we need him as a starter.

 

2012 doesn't matter either. 2011 is the only thing that matters.

 

I'd rather say at the end of the year "well, it'll take Sale half a season in the minors to stretch out in 2012 but at least we tried" than "man if we just had 1 more lights out bullpen guy in 2011 we could have won it all"

[gatnom]

That was the point of my whole argument, we're going for it in 2011 so you don't care "what about Sale in 2014??????".

 

I also don't buy that 1 year in the bullpen will hurt his arm or any of that bs.

 

What about Sale in 2012? If you planned on having him replace somebody in the rotation next season, having him in the bullpen will lessen his conditioning. You could be throwing anywhere between 20-40 extra innings at your bullpen as well as looking at Sale falling off a cliff by the end of the season. Or, are we only going for it in 2011 and not 2012?

 

And then there's always the fact that there will be nobody ready to immediately step in if Peavy or anybody else gets hurt this season. That right there could cost you games this season.

[southsider2k5]

2012 doesn't matter either. 2011 is the only thing that matters.

 

I'd rather say at the end of the year "well, it'll take Sale half a season in the minors to stretch out in 2012 but at least we tried" than "man if we just had 1 more lights out bullpen guy in 2011 we could have won it all"

 

There has to be some sort of a balance there. You can't just act like the other years don't matter. Its not like if we win the Series in 2011, everyone would accept a 50 win season the next season.

 

The thing is, even if Sale starts the season as a starter, he can always go back to the pen. Going from the pen to the rotation in midseason is a much more impossible task, and it could really screw up other things that are fine, by putting demands on other players past their roles. Thing of the dominos that fell apart last year just when Jenks was out.

[jenksycat]

There has to be some sort of a balance there. You can't just act like the other years don't matter. Its not like if we win the Series in 2011, everyone would accept a 50 win season the next season.

 

The thing is, even if Sale starts the season as a starter, he can always go back to the pen. Going from the pen to the rotation in midseason is a much more impossible task, and it could really screw up other things that are fine, by putting demands on other players past their roles. Thing of the dominos that fell apart last year just when Jenks was out.

 

Oh, that's what I've meant all along. I want to see him in the rotation till Peavy gets back, then immediately to the bullpen.

 

And I'd take a 50 win season (which is a gross gross exaggeration, Sale isn't Cy Young here and we're talking about a SP not a Pujols-like heart of the team) if it meant another WS ring.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Jenksy Cat