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White Sox Off-Season Catch All Thread


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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 10:31 AM)
It would also help if you had the potential that made you a first round pick, but then again that is just me.

 

Not at damn near 29. I know you're optimistic when it comes to anything White Sox. But c'mon now. Phil Humber? That's like a Twins fan being high on Lance Broadway because he's a former first round pick.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 10:39 AM)
Not at damn near 29. I know you're optimistic when it comes to anything White Sox. But c'mon now. Phil Humber? That's like a Twins fan being high on Lance Broadway because he's a former first round pick.

 

Or Sox fans being high on Gavin Floyd when he came from Philly with an era over 6?

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 11:30 AM)
If you say so. Humber is horrible and will be an automatic loss whenever he takes the mound. I could be in the running for the 5th spot and Coop or Merkin or Ranger will talk about my upside. I ignore anything and everything fluff related in Feb/March. But that's what happens when you have zero organizational depth.

 

So if Humber (or any of the automatic loss AAAA guys) wins a single game this year, does that mean you have to shut up about it?

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 12:30 PM)
If you say so. Humber is horrible and will be an automatic loss whenever he takes the mound. I could be in the running for the 5th spot and Coop or Merkin or Ranger will talk about my upside. I ignore anything and everything fluff related in Feb/March. But that's what happens when you have zero organizational depth.

Even a blind Lucas Harrell found a nut last year!

 

I'm no Humber, Harrell, or even Leesman fan but whatever...it's just a game or two.

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QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 11:41 AM)
So if Humber (or any of the automatic loss AAAA guys) wins a single game this year, does that mean you have to shut up about it?

 

Nope. If he goes 1-5 with an ERA over 6, which is most likely depending on Peavy, I'll still talk s***. If Kyle McCulloch was in the running for a rotation spot for the Twins and their pitching coach said something like, "Well, that McCulloch has impressed and has caught our eye" this entire board would laugh their ass off. Like I said, this is fluff time. Everybody is in the best shape of their lives. Everybody is upbeat. Everybody has something to prove. Yawn, yawn, yawn. Humber is a joke and the game(s) he starts will be the stuff of Soxtalk gamethread legend.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 02:13 PM)
Nope. If he goes 1-5 with an ERA over 6, which is most likely depending on Peavy, I'll still talk s***. If Kyle McCulloch was in the running for a rotation spot for the Twins and their pitching coach said something like, "Well, that McCulloch has impressed and has caught our eye" this entire board would laugh their ass off. Like I said, this is fluff time. Everybody is in the best shape of their lives. Everybody is upbeat. Everybody has something to prove. Yawn, yawn, yawn. Humber is a joke and the game(s) he starts will be the stuff of Soxtalk gamethread legend.

 

No, I would probably say "Damn, that would suck if the Twins were able to get through to him and not us".

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 10:20 AM)
Eh, people can pull out their quotes on Gavin after he got here, and they would look pretty similar. It's probably nothing, but I am giving our coaches the benefit of the doubt with their history.

 

The words "caught his eye" and "possible 5th starter IF Peavy..." really say it all to me. Cooper doesn't necessarily like him, but doesn't dislike him. He's better than Lucas Harrell and whoever else, but as was mentioned above, that doesn't take a lot. If you have a good fastball and a good breaking pitch, you can put up an ERA of 5.50, which would be better than anything Harrell would put up in the majors.

 

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Mar 1, 2011 -> 10:44 AM)
I agree. The fact that he was a former 1st RD pick at least tells me he has shown dominant stuff at some point and he has the ability to do well.

 

It tells me he has shown good stuff in the past, had a projectable body, and they believed he could be atleast a middle of the rotation starter. Or it tells me that they - the Mets, who drafted him - believed he was close enough to the majors at the time that they drafted him that they could either get some pretty immediate results out of him or be able to use him as a trade chip early in his career. Just because a guy was a 1st round pick doesn't mean he's ever had great stuff.

 

Remember Jason Grilli? 94 MPH fastball that was straight as an arrow and no real breaking balls.

 

From 1997 to 200, here are pitchers taken in the top 5 (asterisks will note if they can be considered "good")

 

1997 - #1 Matt Anderson, DET

1997 - #4 Jason Grilli, SFG

1998 - #2 Mark Mulder, OAK*

1998 - #4 Jeff Austin, KC

(#6 in 98 was Ryan Mills by the Twins. He never made it to the majors)

1999 - #2 Josh Beckett, FLA*

(#6 and #8 that year didn't pitch in the majors, #7 was Kyle Snyder, who was terrible, and #9 and #10 were Zito and Sheets who were good)

2000 - #2 Adam Johnson, MIN

2000 - #4 Mike Stodolka, KC (didn't pitch in majors)

2000 - #5 Justin Wayne, MON

2001 - #2 Mark Prior, CHC*

2001 - #3 Dewon Brazelton

2001 - #4 Gavin Floyd, PHI *

(6-9, 11, 12, and 16-18 were all pitchers. The only two to reach the majors were John Van Benschoten and Aaron Heilman. Remember when Benschoten was going to be the next great minor league find for the Sox?)

2002 - #1 Bryan Bullington, PIT

2002 - #3 Chris Gruler, CIN (didn't pitch in majors)

2002 - #4 Adam Loewen, BAL

2002 - #5 Clint Everts, MON

(#6 in 2002 was Zach Greinke)

2003 - #3 Kyle Sleeth, DET (didn't pitch in majors)

2003 - #4 Tim Stauffer, SD (perfect example of a top 5 pick who no longer has good stuff. This, IMO, is the best case scenario for Philip Humber)

2004 - #2 Justin Verlander, DET*

2004 - #3 Philip Humber, NYM

2004 - #4 Jeff Niemann, TB*

2004 - #5 Mark Rogers, MIL

(6, 7, 8, and 10 were Sowers, Bailey, Townsend, and Diamond. They have all been pretty terrible, but atleast Bailey still has a shot)

2005 - none - Ricky Romero and Mike Pelfrey have been pretty solid...Townsend was drafted by the Rays and has still done jack s***)

2006 - #1 Luke Hochevar, KC

2006 - #2 Greg Reynolds, COL

2006 - #4 Brad Lincoln, PIT

2006 - #5 Brandon Morrow, SEA* (giving it to him assuming he stays relatively healthy)

(also in 2006 were Andrew Miller, Kershaw, Lincecum, Scherzer, and Kiker)

 

I count 25 pitchers draft in the top 5 over that 10 year period. I count 7 that were good.

 

Is being a top 5 pick really a sign of talent? Or, perhaps, 6 and a half years after he was drafted, his arm isn't nearly the same as it was when he was drafted and he has not developed the way others thought he would...considering the White Sox are his 5th organization, I'm going to guess it is the latter. He was a big armed pitcher in college with good stuff who looked like he could be a fast riser. Turns out the heavy workload and the increased stress on his joints really screwed him arm, and now he doesn't have nearly the same type of ability that he did when he was drafted in the top 5 and if he can scratch out a career as a 13th pitcher shuttling between AAA and the Majors, he should be pretty goddamn thankful.

 

I hope the Sox found a diamond in the rough. I hope he turns into a good pitcher and the Sox can use him out of the bullpen and he becomes an effective weapon. I really do. I just don't see how it is possible.

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There were reasons to be optimistic with Floyd though. He'd put up good numbers in the minors before and had reached the majors pretty early considering he was drafted out of high school. In 2006, he saw his walk rate go down, his home run rate stay constant at a solid 0.7, his hit rate went down by over a full hit per inning (I believe hits allowed to be a dependent statistic so you can't take a ton but it's still good to see that it went down) and his strikeout rate improved a little. Humber's home run rate has remained poor no matter where he goes, his strikeout rate got worse, and his hit rate only got fractionally better. He saw a significant improvement in his control, and that's about the only saving grace. All that really tells me was that he was locating better, it doesn't tell me he had a breakthrough in his mechanics or that he is suddenly going to be an effective pitcher. I could locate better and cut my walk rate, but I would still get destroyed if I pitched in the majors.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 2, 2011 -> 07:24 AM)
Humber was waived twice this past offseason. Chances are he sucks. Maybe if the Sox have to use him he can be magical a start or two, or maybe he can develop into a long man. Expectations from a White Sox point of view, are pretty low.

I'm kinda surprised people around here are high on him/very hopeful he will develop into something good. It should be a pleasant surprise if he were to develop into anything serviceable at the major league level.

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He's talking about us!

Listen closely and you already can hear the angry callers lining up on Chicago's sports radio stations.

 

Or just imagine some venomous comments being posted on White Sox message boards.

 

All it will take is one prolonged slump from the South Siders' offense and Greg Walker will become the target of fans' derision. It's the nature of the beast where hitting coaches are concerned.

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