Manny wants "Vlad-like" deal

[Balta1701]

I guess I'd be okay with Manny if we somehow stumbled upon a stud left handed bat who is good in the outfield.

That's probably the biggest problem with signing Manny...if Manroid is healthy, then your RF next year is either Quentin or a Teahen/Quentin ball-dropping party-platoon.

[bigruss]

Seriously...I tolerated that punk for a month. I don't want that guy on my team for a full year.

 

I'm not too worried about it though. I highly doubt the Sox even want to talk to Manny this offseason. He'll probably end up in Toronto, if anywhere.

From everything I've heard, he was pretty classy when with the Sox and actually fit in well. Obviously he didn't smash homeruns left and right, but he easily can give you a .850 or higher OPS out of the DH, and for $5.5 million that's a good deal.

[soxrwhite]

Is he so anxious to play here. He will get offers and sign in the A.L. east.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That's probably the biggest problem with signing Manny...if Manroid is healthy, then your RF next year is either Quentin or a Teahen/Quentin ball-dropping party-platoon.

 

I agree. The only thing against signing Manny would be Quentin being stuck in RF again. Would be great if we could trade Quentin, while signing Manny. Salaries would offset. And you imagine replacing Quentin for Manny F'ing Ramirez and adding NOTHING to the payroll? I'd squeal with joy.

[Balta1701]

I agree. The only thing against signing Manny would be Quentin being stuck in RF again. Would be great if we could trade Quentin, while signing Manny. Salaries would offset. And you imagine replacing Quentin for Manny F'ing Ramirez and adding NOTHING to the payroll? I'd squeal with joy.

The beauty of your suggestion? If I fire back "But what are the odds that Ramirez doesn't get hurt next year"...you immediately can go grab a sign that says "Fail".

[Quin]

Seriously, unless Jim Thome comes up to you right now and says that he is willing to play for $1.5-2 mill again, $5.5 mill plus incentives for one year of Manny Ramirez is absolutely worth it.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

The beauty of your suggestion? If I fire back "But what are the odds that Ramirez doesn't get hurt next year"...you immediately can go grab a sign that says "Fail".

 

So....you are agreeing with me then?

[Balta1701]

So....you are agreeing with me then?

I can't make myself disagree.

[Dick Allen]

Look at it this way, AJ would cost more than Manny if offered arbitration (which many here are clamoring for in false hopes of getting draft picks), Linebrink makes essentially what Manny would, Teahen is close.

 

Manny's production at DH at that salary would be huge for the Sox.

Manny drove in as many runs as Donny Lucy for the White Sox in 2010. Lucy batted 15 times and was basically released. Just because Vlad came back doesn't mean Manny will.

[Vote4Pedro]

im down for a full season with Manny

[3E8]

Manny drove in as many runs as Donny Lucy for the White Sox in 2010. Lucy batted 15 times and was basically released. Just because Vlad came back doesn't mean Manny will.

Because Manny Ramirez and Donny Lucy don't have different histories or anything

[sin city sox fan]

When I read that article, I see nothing from Boras that talks about Manny looking for a $5.5 million deal. He's only stating that Manny will rebound like Vlad....and I think the author rolled with it and added contract expectation. I'd be surprised if Boras is seeking anything less than $12-15 million at this time....and at that price, I'd pass.

[nitetrain8601]

I'd take Manny for 5.5 million and give him incentives. I think he would rebound very nicely next year.

[Dick Allen]

Because Manny Ramirez and Donny Lucy don't have different histories or anything

But you're ignoring Manny's recent history. He's pushing 40 now, getting hurt, always going to have some sort of controversy sometime, and just isn't the same hitter when he's not juiced up. These guys fade quickly. See Sosa, Sammy, McGwire, Mark, Canseco, Jose.

 

Besides Boras is talking full time DH. Isn't that supposed to be very bad?

[witesoxfan]

Manny drove in as many runs as Donny Lucy for the White Sox in 2010. Lucy batted 15 times and was basically released. Just because Vlad came back doesn't mean Manny will.

 

Because using RBIs in a less than 100 plate appearance span is meaningful, especially when said player had just gotten off of the DL like 2 weeks before. Argue that he might get hurt or that you have a moral objection to bringing in roiders, but I really don't think you can argue effectiveness.

 

But you're ignoring Manny's recent history. He's pushing 40 now, getting hurt, always going to have some sort of controversy sometime, and just isn't the same hitter when he's not juiced up. These guys fade quickly. See Sosa, Sammy, McGwire, Mark, Canseco, Jose.

 

Manny's recent history?

 

2008 - 1.031 OPS, 654 PAs, 6.2 WAR

2009 - .949 OPS, 431 PAs, 2.5 WAR

2010 - .870 OPS, 320 PAs, 1.6 WAR

 

I think it should be expected to see some decline, but much of that decline in WAR has to do with lack of plate appearances and performance in the outfield, and theoretically speaking, the Sox superb training staff while allowing him to remain a DH will keep him healthier at the very least.

 

Besides Boras is talking full time DH. Isn't that supposed to be very bad?

 

Sure wasn't for Jim Thome.

[greg775]

Time to sign Thome for old time's sake. And it might piss off Twins' fans. It's time he returns to our side. One mill a year. Tons of incentives. Jimmy baby. I can even handle Jones (ugg) alternating with him at DH.

[kjshoe04]

Time to sign Thome for old time's sake. And it might piss off Twins' fans. It's time he returns to our side. One mill a year. Tons of incentives. Jimmy baby. I can even handle Jones (ugg) alternating with him at DH.

I still want Thome no where near this team. Don't care what he did last year.

[chw42]

$5.5 million for Manny would be awesome.

 

I'd do it, but the bad thing is that Quentin would have to play RF.

[Dick Allen]

Because using RBIs in a less than 100 plate appearance span is meaningful, especially when said player had just gotten off of the DL like 2 weeks before. Argue that he might get hurt or that you have a moral objection to bringing in roiders, but I really don't think you can argue effectiveness.

 

 

 

Manny's recent history?

 

2008 - 1.031 OPS, 654 PAs, 6.2 WAR

2009 - .949 OPS, 431 PAs, 2.5 WAR

2010 - .870 OPS, 320 PAs, 1.6 WAR

 

I think it should be expected to see some decline, but much of that decline in WAR has to do with lack of plate appearances and performance in the outfield, and theoretically speaking, the Sox superb training staff while allowing him to remain a DH will keep him healthier at the very least.

 

 

 

Sure wasn't for Jim Thome.

Using Manny's performace with only 2 RBI is very fair. He failed several times to drive in runs when they were sitting on the pond. If you want to use his injury as an excuse, how come you didn't speak up that he probably would be ineffective with the Sox because of a lack of playing time previously? And how can you know that he won't just get hurt again? He also has a history of taking time off anyway. Manny being Manny always ends poorly. He was a roider, whether I have a moral objection is irrelavant. What is relavant is if he's off the steroids, chances are that, in addition to age and injury will also lead to declining performance.

Notice a pattern in Manny's performance. He's not juiced anymore (supposedly) and is getting older. The Sox training staff may be superb, but to say they will keep him on the field and productive is a reach. When you get to be 39 and have abused your body, there's things that happen that Herm can do nothing about.

 

But just for s***s and giggles, lets say you sign Manny to a contract guaranteeing him $5 million with incentives that take that up to $10 million. Say he goes on a tear. What do you think happens next? He's going to cry for an extension and remember if he didn't get busted, $22 million a year wasn't enough. What happens when he doesn't get what he wants? It happened in Boston and in LA, he suddenly gets hurt or gets sick and has to sit out games. The guy was worth the headache when he was in his prime, but not now. The only way Manny stays happy with a Vlad like contract is if he doesn't perform very well.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Dick Allen

[sin city sox fan]

Once again, can anyone point out in that article where Boras says that Manny is only seeking $5.5 million? His only comparison to Vlad is that he'll rebound like Vlad did. If any team called Boras now and offered $5.5 million, he'd probably hang up on them.

[ScottyDo]

Because using RBIs in a less than 100 plate appearance span is meaningful, especially when said player had just gotten off of the DL like 2 weeks before. Argue that he might get hurt or that you have a moral objection to bringing in roiders, but I really don't think you can argue effectiveness.

 

 

 

Manny's recent history?

 

2008 - 1.031 OPS, 654 PAs, 6.2 WAR

2009 - .949 OPS, 431 PAs, 2.5 WAR

2010 - .870 OPS, 320 PAs, 1.6 WAR

 

I think it should be expected to see some decline, but much of that decline in WAR has to do with lack of plate appearances and performance in the outfield, and theoretically speaking, the Sox superb training staff while allowing him to remain a DH will keep him healthier at the very least.

 

 

 

Sure wasn't for Jim Thome.

Take your OPS trend and extrapolate it one year. How does that support your point?

 

I'm mixed on this but my gut says Do Not Want.