TSA - Going too Far?

[Soxbadger]

If you really do believe that freedoms are being violated by these checks, than you have to accept that people will die because of them.

 

In a free society people are going to die because of the bad decisions by other free people of that society.

 

People will always have the choice and ability to cause destruction and death. No govt. can stop it, no matter how oppressive or free. So I accept that there will be tragedy or death, because that is inevitable. Is freedom worth it? I think yes, but I understand the other position.

[Rex Kickass]

WHo come back with Muslim names, long beards and other things that could also be profiled.

Like that big muslim name Richard Reid.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'd be curious how many people would still feel the same way if family members died from an event that could have been prevented with more intrusive measures? I know as soon as something does happen, the re-writing of what could have been done will start almost instantly, just like it did with 9-11. If you really do believe that freedoms are being violated by these checks, than you have to accept that people will die because of them.

 

Terrorists could attack a major sporting event with half the security of an airport and inflict 50 times the damage. Unless we all throw up our hands and submit to walking around naked with government employs checking every orifice of our body, we'll ALWAYS be waiting for Captain Hindsight to tell us what we could have done. Are there reasonable measures to be taken? Yes. Is there a line that needs to be drawn? Absolutely. Common sense would be one (like not forcing a three year old to submit to a physical search), but clearly we haven't mastered that one yet.

[BigSqwert]

Can someone please change the thread title so I can stop pulling my hair out.

[Rex Kickass]

First, it's not just like an xray, it's basically a naked picture of your body that you KNOW is going to be out there in public by some creepy perv.

 

Honestly, this is one of the arguments I find most hilarious, because you don't know that. You fear that. In fact, if the government knew this was going to be out there in public by some creepy perv, this wouldn't be used. But the truth is that this is probably a boring, boring job to the vast majority of people monitoring these scans. The last thing that they would want to do is take these pictures home and fap to them.

 

And frankly, there is some creepy perv fapping to some other picture of you somewhere else if your picture is public. There are lots of creepy fetishes. Many of them don't involve you being naked at all. This one pic probably won't be saved, and even if it is, it probably won't get into those people's hands. But you can't be sure.

 

Personally, I do think backscatter machines are a step forward in helping security identify potential threats. Of all the security "enhancements" the TSA has done in the last few years, this one has the most potential to actually improve security on airplanes. And the truth is, given the choice between having a slim possibility that a naked xray type picture of me might leak to the press and the slim possibility that this nudie picture machine might prevent me from being blown up on a plane, I'll take the unlikely option that doesn't kill me.

[southsider2k5]

Can someone please change the thread title so I can stop pulling my hair out.

 

If you are going to far, can I at least catch a ride with you?

[Jenksismyhero]

Honestly, this is one of the arguments I find most hilarious, because you don't know that. You fear that. In fact, if the government knew this was going to be out there in public by some creepy perv, this wouldn't be used. But the truth is that this is probably a boring, boring job to the vast majority of people monitoring these scans. The last thing that they would want to do is take these pictures home and fap to them.

 

And frankly, there is some creepy perv fapping to some other picture of you somewhere else if your picture is public. There are lots of creepy fetishes. Many of them don't involve you being naked at all. This one pic probably won't be saved, and even if it is, it probably won't get into those people's hands. But you can't be sure.

 

Personally, I do think backscatter machines are a step forward in helping security identify potential threats. Of all the security "enhancements" the TSA has done in the last few years, this one has the most potential to actually improve security on airplanes. And the truth is, given the choice between having a slim possibility that a naked xray type picture of me might leak to the press and the slim possibility that this nudie picture machine might prevent me from being blown up on a plane, I'll take the unlikely option that doesn't kill me.

 

You find it hilarious because government employees doing something they're not supposed to do occurs ALL the time? This precise problem has already happened in a similar setting. And people do all sorts of crazy stuff despite being "bored."

 

Great, we're 2% more secure than we were a year ago. So your odds of being killed on a plane due to a terrorist attack went from one in a billion to one in 990 million. Good excuse to force everyone to go through this crap.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

When I first read this, I thought you were referring to one of these. I was gonna say, they don't work over water.

 

"Unless you got POWER!"

 

[Texsox]

I worry what the next level of scanning will be when bomb makers figure out an effective bomb that can be swallowed.

[StrangeSox]

Great, we're 2% more secure than we were a year ago. So your odds of being killed on a plane due to a terrorist attack went from one in a billion to one in 990 million. Good excuse to force everyone to go through this crap.

 

FWIW I agree with what you're saying here, I just don't think your earlier constitutional arguments hold up.

[Balta1701]

I worry what the next level of scanning will be when bomb makers figure out an effective bomb that can be swallowed.

The big problems with that are actually biological. You swallow a bomb, your stomach acids are going to start working on it to break it down, and they're really good at dissolving high-energy organic compounds. And if somehow you have a bomb that can't dissolve, your stomach is going to start pushing it down to your intestines pretty quick. Plus there's the whole "fuse-gag reflex" issue.

[Texsox]

The big problems with that are actually biological. You swallow a bomb, your stomach acids are going to start working on it to break it down, and they're really good at dissolving high-energy organic compounds. And if somehow you have a bomb that can't dissolve, your stomach is going to start pushing it down to your intestines pretty quick. Plus there's the whole "fuse-gag reflex" issue.

 

Couldn't it just me covered in a condom? If it works for drugs, I assume it would work for a bomb. You know as soon as a Republican is in the White House we're being investigated for this thread lol

[Rex Kickass]

You find it hilarious because government employees doing something they're not supposed to do occurs ALL the time? This precise problem has already happened in a similar setting. And people do all sorts of crazy stuff despite being "bored."

 

Great, we're 2% more secure than we were a year ago. So your odds of being killed on a plane due to a terrorist attack went from one in a billion to one in 990 million. Good excuse to force everyone to go through this crap.

 

So we're supposed to stop this because some people are crazy? Should we stop OB.GYN services because some doctors are crazy and you know there's just some perv rootin around down there for kicks? Do we stop having garbage collection because the garbage man might go through my trash and thats private, and who knows what they could do with my personal information or what sick fetish they might have with trash?

 

The truth is, every social interaction you make puts you at risk for exploitation in some form. This is no different. Anytime you put out information, show yourself, pose for a picture, you are at risk of being exploited. But in order to live a life, some risk must be accepted. And like I said, if its 2% likelier that nudie pics of me will go online as a result of flying or 2% less likely that I'll be blown up on a plane. (Both pretty unlikely options), I'll take the embarrassment over the explosion seven days a week.

[Balta1701]

Couldn't it just me covered in a condom? If it works for drugs, I assume it would work for a bomb. You know as soon as a Republican is in the White House we're being investigated for this thread lol

How do you set it off? If you use a timer, or any sort of receiver, that takes up space, and there's only so much you can fit inside one of those as a trigger. The other part is...if it is actually inside you...your body takes a lot of the energy of the explosion. Depending on the exact explosive, you might not be able to get enough power outside of the body to really damage the plane other than to make a gigantic mess.

[Texsox]

So we're supposed to stop this because some people are crazy?

 

No, were suppose to satop this because of the 4th and 9th Amendments to our Constitution.

[Jenksismyhero]

Irony

 

Getting on a plane - deal with it!

 

In jail for an actual crime - 55.3 million!

 

(clearly strip searches are not equal to pat downs, but still)

Edited November 17, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[Rex Kickass]

No, were suppose to satop this because of the 4th and 9th Amendments to our Constitution.

 

So what specifically makes this any more intrusive than a metal detector? People refuse that too, and they got a patdown before?

 

If reasonable safeguards are in place, and they seem to be, why is this so unreasonable?

[Rex Kickass]

Irony

 

Getting on a plane - deal with it!

 

In jail for an actual crime - 553 million!

 

(clearly strip searches are not equal to pat downs, but still)

 

When dozens of men are stripped down and given cavity searches next to each other simultaneously for boarding a plane, you'll have a point.

 

And you forgot the decimal in your 55.3 million.

[Jenksismyhero]

When dozens of men are stripped down and given cavity searches next to each other simultaneously for boarding a plane, you'll have a point.

 

And you forgot the decimal in your 55.3 million.

 

Oops, you're right. Fixed.

 

I still think it's unreasonable. I'm fine with taking my shoes off, going through a metal detector, having my bags scanned/searched, etc. But I think its unreasonable to have to choose either a naked body scan or being physically groped. All indications are too that these aren't just basic pat downs you might get at a Sox game. Given the goals of this (to find bombs/other dangerous materials) I don't see how it can be. You can hide those materials in body cavities. No pat down is going to find that. So unless we're willing to go that far, this is a pointless and invasive new measure.

 

And really, I find the whole airport security notion pretty stupid. 9/11 will never happen again simply because people are now aware of what's possible. There are other potential targets with hardly any security that could result in far more damage and/or lives. This idea that we're somehow protecting ourselves by being screened like this is ludicrous.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Oops, you're right. Fixed.

 

I still think it's unreasonable. I'm fine with taking my shoes off, going through a metal detector, having my bags scanned/searched, etc. But I think its unreasonable to have to choose either a naked body scan or being physically groped. All indications are too that these aren't just basic pat downs you might get at a Sox game. Given the goals of this (to find bombs/other dangerous materials) I don't see how it can be. You can hide those materials in body cavities. No pat down is going to find that. So unless we're willing to go that far, this is a pointless and invasive new measure.

 

And really, I find the whole airport security notion pretty stupid. 9/11 will never happen again simply because people are now aware of what's possible. There are other potential targets with hardly any security that could result in far more damage and/or lives. This idea that we're somehow protecting ourselves by being screened like this is ludicrous.

How about the quality of people they have staffing some of the TSA stations? I saw one lady barely looking at the screen on my way to SF because she was too busy chatting up her co-worker. You cant tell me that lady would have been able to find a packaged bomb inside of a laptop moving through a machine.

[southsider2k5]

Oops, you're right. Fixed.

 

I still think it's unreasonable. I'm fine with taking my shoes off, going through a metal detector, having my bags scanned/searched, etc. But I think its unreasonable to have to choose either a naked body scan or being physically groped. All indications are too that these aren't just basic pat downs you might get at a Sox game. Given the goals of this (to find bombs/other dangerous materials) I don't see how it can be. You can hide those materials in body cavities. No pat down is going to find that. So unless we're willing to go that far, this is a pointless and invasive new measure.

 

And really, I find the whole airport security notion pretty stupid. 9/11 will never happen again simply because people are now aware of what's possible. There are other potential targets with hardly any security that could result in far more damage and/or lives. This idea that we're somehow protecting ourselves by being screened like this is ludicrous.

 

I can't believe that anyone would think that today.

[Jenksismyhero]

I can't believe that anyone would think that today.

 

When you go to a major sporting or entertainment event, do you feel less secure knowing that at best a couple of dogs are sniffing around and a womans purse is being searched? Do you demand body scanners or pat downs? When you walk into a downtown skyscraper, where the highest level of security is a sign in sheet, do you feel less secure? Do you demand higher levels of security to feel more safe?

 

Someone else said the phrase - security theater. It's an absolute joke. I was ok with it up to a point, but we've gone over the line of common sense IMO, and in doing so we've absolutely let the terrorists win. We continue to be paranoid and severely alter our way of life because of fear.

 

Edit: and for those people concerned with spending, how many hundreds of billions have been spent on this?

Edited November 17, 2010 by Jenksismybitch

[southsider2k5]

When you go to a major sporting or entertainment event, do you feel less secure knowing that at best a couple of dogs are sniffing around and a womans purse is being searched? Do you demand body scanners or pat downs? When you walk into a downtown skyscraper, where the highest level of security is a sign in sheet, do you feel less secure? Do you demand higher levels of security to feel more safe?

 

Someone else said the phrase - security theater. It's an absolute joke. I was ok with it up to a point, but we've gone over the line of common sense IMO, and in doing so we've absolutely let the terrorists win. We continue to be paranoid and severely alter our way of life because of fear.

 

Edit: and for those people concerned with spending, how many hundreds of billions have been spent on this?

 

Demanding security isn't the same as recognizing as common sense that more security makes things safer. Do you really think if there was zero security on planes that people wouldn't smuggle bombs on all of the time?

 

And out of curiousity, how much is a dead relative worth to you, in terms of dollars?

[LittleHurt05]

Someone else said the phrase - security theater. It's an absolute joke. I was ok with it up to a point, but we've gone over the line of common sense IMO, and in doing so we've absolutely let the terrorists win. We continue to be paranoid and severely alter our way of life because of fear.

 

I keep seeing you use this phrase. I am just curious, what should be done differently so that we are winning vs. the terrorists?

[BigSqwert]

I keep seeing you use this phrase. I am just curious, what should be done differently so that we are winning vs. the terrorists?

Leave the middle east.