TSA - Going too Far?

[BigSqwert]

Someone remind me why we're spending millions of dollars and wasting everyone's time going through extra security steps if s*** like this happens?

 

JetBlue says it is cooperating with federal investigators after one of its pilots lost his government-issued handgun at John F. Kennedy International Airport.

 

Authorities say the pilot was waiting for his flight to Pittsburgh Thursday morning when a passenger mistakenly picked up his backpack along with her family's bags.

 

The passenger boarded another flight but notified a flight attendant when she realized she was carrying an extra bag.

 

The Transportation Security Administration says the gun was locked and could not fire.

 

The pilot was carrying the gun as part of a government program aimed at stopping hijackers.

 

What's stopping a disgruntled or terrorist sympathizing pilot to be in cahoots with some would be terrorists, passing off guns after the security checks?

Edited January 17, 2011 by BigSqwert

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Someone remind me why we're spending millions of dollars and wasting everyone's time going through extra security steps if s*** like this happens?

 

 

 

What's stopping a disgruntled or terrorist sympathizing pilot to be in cahoots with some would be terrorists, passing off guns after the security checks?

 

What's stopping a disgruntled pilot from just crashing the plane and avoiding a third party altogether? I can see a cause for concern, but not for the reason you specify.

[NorthSideSox72]

What's stopping a disgruntled pilot from just crashing the plane and avoiding a third party altogether? I can see a cause for concern, but not for the reason you specify.

That was my thought. Pilots carrying guns is a policy fraught with risk, but being disgruntled really isn't one of them.

 

[Texsox]

I have a hard time disputing the pilot's ascertain that they are part of the solution, not the risk, and should be allowed to carry.

[NorthSideSox72]

I have a hard time disputing the pilot's ascertain that they are part of the solution, not the risk, and should be allowed to carry.

Its real easy for me. For one, they have nothing like the training that the FAA Air Marshals get, and the risk to the aircraft and its passengers of a gun going off on a flight is huge. Air Marshalls are already present on a lot of flights now (used to be rare). Cabin doors are now locked and reinforced during flight, and if someone is able to get in there, then its all over anyway.

 

Basically, there are virtually no scenarios where it would help the situation, and a lot of scenarios where it makes things worse.

 

[BigSqwert]

What we saw in Moscow today proves to me that these body scanners are a waste of money. Stick to the metal detectors and x-ray machines and call it a day.

[Balta1701]

I ain't got time to pat down.

Former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura sued the Department of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration on Monday, alleging full-body scans and pat-downs at airport checkpoints violate his right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

 

Ventura is asking a federal judge in Minnesota to issue an injunction ordering officials to stop subjecting him to "warrantless and suspicionless" scans and body searches.

 

The lawsuit, which also names Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and TSA Administrator John Pistole as defendants, argues the searches are "unwarranted and unreasonable intrusions on Governor Ventura's personal privacy and dignity and are a justifiable cause for him to be concerned for his personal health and well-being."

 

According to the lawsuit, Ventura received a hip replacement in 2008, and since then, his titanium implant has set off metal detectors at airport security checkpoints. The lawsuit said that prior to last November officials had used a non-invasive hand-held wand to scan his body as a secondary security measure.

 

But when Ventura set off the metal detector in November, he was instead subjected to a body pat-down and was not given the option of a scan with a hand-held wand or an exemption for being a frequent traveler, the lawsuit said.

 

The lawsuit said the pat-down "exposed him to humiliation and degradation through unwanted touching, gripping and rubbing of the intimate areas of his body."

[Jenksismyhero]

I ain't got time to pat down.

 

I hope he wins.

[Jenksismyhero]

What we saw in Moscow today proves to me that these body scanners are a waste of money. Stick to the metal detectors and x-ray machines and call it a day.

 

 

Can't tell if you're being facetious, but it doesn't look like any kind of security was used.

 

Monday's bombing exposed the unprotected underbelly of airport security - the international arrivals area, packed with families, taxi drivers and businesspeople, all of whom do not have to go through airport security. Few airports in the world control the entrances to such areas.

 

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110125/D9KVDG701.html

[BigSqwert]

Can't tell if you're being facetious, but it doesn't look like any kind of security was used.

 

I was not being facetious at all. I don't think there is anyway this could be prevented with a body scanner.

[NorthSideSox72]

I hope he wins.

 

Since flying is not a right, I fail to see how he can win this.

 

I was not being facetious at all. I don't think there is anyway this could be prevented with a body scanner.

 

No one has ever said they would - outside the secure area, which is where this happened.

 

[BigSqwert]

No one has ever said they would - outside the secure area, which is where this happened.

 

Just trying to prove the point that body scanners aren't worth the huge investment in money, the invasion of privacy, and the extra time needed at the airports because of longer lines.

[Jenksismyhero]

Since flying is not a right, I fail to see how he can win this.

 

 

No one has ever said they would - outside the secure area, which is where this happened.

 

 

So? Is driving a car a right?

[NorthSideSox72]

So? Is driving a car a right?

Nope. And there are many restrictions on that too, such as licensure, insurance, traffic laws, etc. What's your point?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Nope. And there are many restrictions on that too, such as licensure, insurance, traffic laws, etc. What's your point?

 

I thought you were saying he couldn't maintain an unreasonable search/seizure action because flying isn't a right. But they still limit searches in the context of traffic stops/searches.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I thought you were saying he couldn't maintain an unreasonable search/seizure action because flying isn't a right. But they still limit searches in the context of traffic stops/searches.

Search and seizure actions related to traffic stops are restricted, as are flight security checks. The restrictions and checks are different. Since these are not rights but privileges, I think they have significant legal leeway to do what they see fit to ensure security.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Search and seizure actions related to traffic stops are restricted, as are flight security checks. The restrictions and checks are different. Since these are not rights but privileges, I think they have significant legal leeway to do what they see fit to ensure security.

 

Sure, they have a "reasonable" restriction. It'll be up to 9 people to decide whether pat downs are "reasonable." 8 years ago there's no way this would be successful. Now? I'm not so sure.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Jenksismybitch

[NorthSideSox72]

Sure, they have a "reasonable" restriction. It'll be up to 9 people to decide whether pat downs are "reasonable." 8 years ago there's no way this would be successful. Now? I'm not so sure.

And that's the way it sort of has to be. Situation changes, security needs change.

 

I am more concerned about the fact that the searches and body scans are just not worth it, than about whether or not its an intrusion on someone's privacy.

 

[Balta1701]

A $212-million federal program designed to spot suspected terrorists at American airports is "not capable of detecting what took place in Moscow," according to the chairman of the House Transportation Committee, Rep. John Mica, R-Florida.

 

The program, called SPOT, was created in 2006 by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), and now has more than 3,000 "Behavior Detection" officers at 161 airports. The officers receive four days of classroom instruction on how to spot certain unusual behaviors.

 

But the Government Accountability Office says the TSA has relied on unproven behavioral science and Congressional critics say the program has done nothing to deal with the actual vulnerabilities of airport security.

 

"I see the classified results and it gives me great concern, I saw what happened [in Moscow] and I have even more concern," Rep. Mica said today on the ABC News program Good Morning America.

Link

[Jenksismyhero]

Link

 

Maybe the more these ridiculous attempts at security come to light, the more the public will eventually throw up their hands and say enough already and force the government to stop wasting so much time/energy/money on this.

[Balta1701]

Maybe the more these ridiculous attempts at security come to light, the more the public will eventually throw up their hands and say enough already and force the government to stop wasting so much time/energy/money on this.

What's more likely is that some other well connected contractor will come up with another idea that can have money thrown at it, and that will happen.

[StrangeSox]

Maybe the more these ridiculous attempts at security come to light, the more the public will eventually throw up their hands and say enough already and force the government to stop wasting so much time/energy/money on this.

 

Until there's another attack, everyone freaks out and government expands while civil liberties shrink.

[BigSqwert]

Somewhat related: DHS ending color-coded terror alert system

 

How much money did we spend on that stupid system?

[Y2HH]

I think Jesse "The Body/Mind" Ventura launched pretty public lawsuit against the TSA recently, should be making headlines.

[Balta1701]

I think Jesse "The Body/Mind" Ventura launched pretty public lawsuit against the TSA recently, should be making headlines.

17 posts ahead of you.