DirtySox Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal #Marlins close to signing free-agent catcher John Buck to three-year deal. #BlueJays #MLB 35 minutes ago jonmorosi Jon Morosi UPDATE: Source tells me that the Buck deal is, in fact, worth more than $15M. #Florida #Marlins #MLB 1 minute ago Details aren't entirely official yet, but this certainly influences the catchers market. If Buck is getting between 5 and 6 million a year, the Sox would be foolish to not offer AJ arbitration. Not much harm in him accepting, and draft picks if he walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 04:54 PM) Details aren't entirely official yet, but this certainly influences the catchers market. If Buck is getting between 5 and 6 million a year, the Sox would be foolish to not offer AJ arbitration. Not much harm in him accepting, and draft picks if he walks. $6 million is quite a bit of harm to this team's resources right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 That is insane money and years for a guy who isn't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 02:54 PM) Details aren't entirely official yet, but this certainly influences the catchers market. If Buck is getting between 5 and 6 million a year, the Sox would be foolish to not offer AJ arbitration. Not much harm in him accepting, and draft picks if he walks. Bruce Levine disagrees with you. Because of recent rule changes, not offering arbitration to your own player does not exclude you from signing them back as a free agent. For example, in the case of A.J. Pierzynski, the White Sox might hurt the catcher's chances in the free-agent market if they offer him arbitration. That would mean a team signing Pierzynski would lose two draft picks to the White Sox. Because of their relationship with Pierzynski and the fact they might want to bring him back, the White Sox may pass on offering arbitration which would give Pierzynski and his agent an even playing field to find his best offer elsehwere or return to the White Sox on a shorter contract in a good frame of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Also it is worth mentioning that if this is the going price for catchers, we might be looking at the Tyler Flowers era starting next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 For some reason I keep thinking Mike Napoli will be our starting catcher next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxPride56 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) For some reason I keep thinking Mike Napoli will be our starting catcher next season. There are far worse options out there then Mike Napoli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 04:45 PM) For some reason I keep thinking Mike Napoli will be our starting catcher next season. I wouldn't be a huge fan of this unless AJ left the Sox for a better offer and Kenny had to go after the next best thing. Napoli is a good player, but he's going to get a raise on the $3.6M he made last year during arb, and 2011 is his last year before FA. AJ doesn't cost draft picks, only money. Napoli costs good talent, plus money, and we'd run the risk of losing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 02:20 PM) I wouldn't be a huge fan of this unless AJ left the Sox for a better offer and Kenny had to go after the next best thing. Napoli is a good player, but he's going to get a raise on the $3.6M he made last year during arb, and 2011 is his last year before FA. AJ doesn't cost draft picks, only money. Napoli costs good talent, plus money, and we'd run the risk of losing him. I don't necessarily know how much good talent you'd lose in the deal. It seemed like the Angels might go another route. They won't give him away but I don't know if they need a whole ton to make something happen. Again, purely hypothetical and while Napoli has his flaws it is a move I'd support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 05:34 PM) I don't necessarily know how much good talent you'd lose in the deal. It seemed like the Angels might go another route. They won't give him away but I don't know if they need a whole ton to make something happen. Again, purely hypothetical and while Napoli has his flaws it is a move I'd support. From a pure talent perspective I'd support it too. But if I were the Angels I'd ask for something good (not like Viciedo or anything, but much better than Flowers and D2 kind of prospects) knowing that eventually someone is going to offer a good player. Even in his down year last year he hit 26 HR in just 510 plate appearances, and his OBP was still 78 points above his BA, which is about where it has been. He struck out more and got fewer hits, but there's no reason to believe that is the start of a downward trend. Now if we thought we could extend him at a reasonable price however, and buy low, then I'd fully support this move. But he's still going to cost something good. Edited November 16, 2010 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) There are far worse options out there then Mike Napoli. Offensively yes. Defensively, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) From a pure talent perspective I'd support it too. But if I were the Angels I'd ask for something good (not like Viciedo or anything, but much better than Flowers and D2 kind of prospects) knowing that eventually someone is going to offer a good player. Even in his down year last year he hit 26 HR in just 510 plate appearances, and his OBP was still 78 points above his BA, which is about where it has been. He struck out more and got fewer hits, but there's no reason to believe that is the start of a downward trend. Now if we thought we could extend him at a reasonable price however, and buy low, then I'd fully support this move. But he's still going to cost something good. Scioscia wants his catchers first and most importantly to call great games and he has fallen in love with the light hitting, exceptionally defensively Jeff Mathis. However, Napoli is a pretty solid catcher in his own right and I think the Angels tend to underrate him. Plus the Angels org in general despises strikeouts, which is why I still don't understand how they have stuck by Wood for as long as they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) I don't believe the decision to offer arbitration or not is as clear-cut as some of you think. It certainly isn't a slam dunk like with Konerko and Putz, but it's entirely reasonable. Sox Machine just put up a very nice piece on the topic. http://soxmachine.com/2010/11/17/buck-deal...skis-prospects/ Edited November 17, 2010 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 01:23 AM) I don't believe the decision to offer arbitration or not is as clear-cut as some of you think. It certainly isn't a slam dunk like with Konerko and Putz, but it's entirely reasonable. Sox Machine just put up a very nice piece on the topic. http://soxmachine.com/2010/11/17/buck-deal...skis-prospects/ very good piece. I agree the Sox should offer AJ the arb after reading that article. And if AJ accepts, then what is stopping Kenny from trading AJ somewhere since $6M isn't a huge commitment to a team, and as long as we get a player or two back, even if they are crappy, we can just consider them our draft picks that we would have done if AJ rejected arb. Either way, if he accepts and we trade him, or he declines, we could earn ourselves 1 or 2 prospects in return that we would otherwise not have gotten if we didn't offer him arb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 01:59 AM) very good piece. I agree the Sox should offer AJ the arb after reading that article. And if AJ accepts, then what is stopping Kenny from trading AJ somewhere since $6M isn't a huge commitment to a team, and as long as we get a player or two back, even if they are crappy, we can just consider them our draft picks that we would have done if AJ rejected arb. Either way, if he accepts and we trade him, or he declines, we could earn ourselves 1 or 2 prospects in return that we would otherwise not have gotten if we didn't offer him arb. What's the date we need to offer arbitration by? Isn't there a chance a team desperate for a catcher would sign him before that deadline? I didn't think Buck would move so quickly, but him doing so has thinned out the free agent catching market quite a bit. Maybe a team would be willing to sacrifice a pick (especially if it's a second rounder) and make an offer to A.J. early if they know other teams will be waiting on our arbitration decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 09:41 AM) What's the date we need to offer arbitration by? Isn't there a chance a team desperate for a catcher would sign him before that deadline? I didn't think Buck would move so quickly, but him doing so has thinned out the free agent catching market quite a bit. Maybe a team would be willing to sacrifice a pick (especially if it's a second rounder) and make an offer to A.J. early if they know other teams will be waiting on our arbitration decision. November 23rd is the deadline to offer. The player must decide to accept or decline by the 30th. Edited November 17, 2010 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Many here must have signed on to the "fatalistic" viewpoint. This team is not made up of a bunch of also ran losers. I think the Sox should re-sign AJP and the Marlins were interested in him. Now they have Buck, who can't hold a candle to AJ so hopefully he and the Sox are talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 16, 2010 -> 03:24 PM) Bruce Levine disagrees with you. I understand the average fan having difficulty with something like this, but if you are a "credible" baseball journalist, you should absolutely know that signing a Type A free agent does not cost a team two draft picks, and I'm pretty sure it never has. The incumbent team will receive two draft picks, yes, but one of them is in the sandwich round between the 1st and the 2nd and is compensation from MLB itself, not from any particular team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2010 -> 12:05 PM) I understand the average fan having difficulty with something like this, but if you are a "credible" baseball journalist, you should absolutely know that signing a Type A free agent does not cost a team two draft picks, and I'm pretty sure it never has. The incumbent team will receive two draft picks, yes, but one of them is in the sandwich round between the 1st and the 2nd and is compensation from MLB itself, not from any particular team. Bruce Levine is a horrible horrible source of anything. It's best to disregard almost all of what he says. If you want a laugh you should read some of the answers he gives out in his Sox/Cubs chats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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