White Sox Sign Dunn

[sircaffey]

And you base that on what exactly?

Further, I could give rat's ass how much they would be in the hole (if that were true, which I doubt).

If they can't afford to run a major league team in this city, they have no business owning one.

Do you think the fans in New York, Boston and LA care about that?

Why should we?

 

Hi, I'm earth. Have we met?

 

You: I don't think so.

[Balta1701]

Am I crazy, or do I see somewhere around 15 outs made at the wall there that would be homeruns in US Cellular?

OF course, on average, only 1/2 of those games would be at the Cell, then it's over 2 years, so that's maybe 4 extra HR a year based on the walls.

[mcgrad70]

Because having a team in debt would be bad.

 

And it's different for the Sox then compared to the Yankees or Red Sox, because the Cubs happen to also play in this city and absorb most of the city's fanbase.

 

And if they were in the red, which being at a $180M payroll certainly would have them in red, then we'd basically mortgage our future and have to become what the Cubs are; a poor team due to big contracts with high ticket prices to pay those off.

 

Nice sentiment but not surprisingly, you didn't my answer my question.

How do you know the current owners of the Chicago American League Ballclub can't afford a 180 million dollar payroll?

And further, if they couldn't afford it and takes what it took to put your favorite team in an elite class, why would want them as owners?

Edited December 4, 2010 by mcgrad70

[Balta1701]

How do you know the current owners of the Chicago American League Ballclub can't afford a 180 million dollar payroll?

If you believe the Forbes numbers, they could probably get by with it for 1, maybe 2 years, but after 3 years, they wouldn't have the revenue to sustain that and their debt position would become bad enough that they couldn't get the loans they needed to cover it. They'd wind up like the Rangers from last year.

 

Forbes numbers suggest that something in the $120 million range might be sustainable.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

OF course, on average, only 1/2 of those games would be at the Cell, then it's over 2 years, so that's maybe 4 extra HR a year based on the walls.

 

Ooooh ok. I thought those were last year in Washinton. Damn, I was getting pumped.

[SoxFan562004]

If you believe the Forbes numbers, they could probably get by with it for 1, maybe 2 years, but after 3 years, they wouldn't have the revenue to sustain that and their debt position would become bad enough that they couldn't get the loans they needed to cover it. They'd wind up like the Rangers from last year.

 

Forbes numbers suggest that something in the $120 million range might be sustainable.

Before I google it, anyone have what JR and crew paid for the Sox and what Forbes estimate is now?

 

Also, not to be macabre, but JR is 74 and his group could always turn and sell at some point and make a ridiculous profit, so I don't see him sitting around, seems like he's going for it.

 

OK, group bought it for 18m in 1981 and Forbes had it valued at 466m in April of this year. Interesting that gate receipts for '09 were 68m and player expense were 112m. So adding broadcast revenue and all the other revenue sources the Sox and other teams use that they are doing OK financially, especially considering the equity the group has in the team

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/33/baseba...Sox_334758.html

 

Please note I looked at this very quickly and by no means a finance expert, so those out there please add, interested to hear opinions... this combined with the deadspin leaked docs and it makes sense to me that the Sox can add payroll and not be completely screwed

Edited December 4, 2010 by SoxFan562004

[mcgrad70]

Before I google it, anyone have what JR and crew paid for the Sox and what Forbes estimate is now?

 

Also, not to be macabre, but JR is 74 and his group could always turn and sell at some point and make a ridiculous profit, so I don't see him sitting around, seems like he's going for it.

 

OK, group bought it for 18m in 1981 and Forbes had it valued at 466m in April of this year. Interesting that gate receipts for '09 were 68m and player expense were 112m. So adding broadcast revenue and all the other revenue sources the Sox and other teams use that they are doing OK financially, especially considering the equity the group has in the team

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/33/baseba...Sox_334758.html

 

Please note I looked at this very quickly and by no means a finance expert, so those out there please add, interested to hear opinions... this combined with the deadspin leaked docs and it makes sense to me that the Sox can add payroll and not be completely screwed

 

Interesting info. My only point was the owners could at anytime they choose add payroll.

It's no more complicated or simple than that.

They are restricted only by their willingness to do so.

We shouldn't have to be masters of finance in our discussions on how to improve the team.

We only need owners on the same page.

 

 

[mcgrad70]

Before I google it, anyone have what JR and crew paid for the Sox and what Forbes estimate is now?

 

Also, not to be macabre, but JR is 74 and his group could always turn and sell at some point and make a ridiculous profit, so I don't see him sitting around, seems like he's going for it.

 

OK, group bought it for 18m in 1981 and Forbes had it valued at 466m in April of this year. Interesting that gate receipts for '09 were 68m and player expense were 112m. So adding broadcast revenue and all the other revenue sources the Sox and other teams use that they are doing OK financially, especially considering the equity the group has in the team

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/33/baseba...Sox_334758.html

 

Please note I looked at this very quickly and by no means a finance expert, so those out there please add, interested to hear opinions... this combined with the deadspin leaked docs and it makes sense to me that the Sox can add payroll and not be completely screwed

 

Interesting info. My only point was the owners could at anytime they choose add payroll.

It's no more complicated or simple than that.

They are restricted only by their willingness to do so.

We shouldn't have to be masters of finance in our discussions on how to improve the team.

We only need owners on the same page.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Interesting info. My only point was the owners could at anytime they choose add payroll.

It's no more complicated or simple than that.

They are restricted only by their willingness to do so.

We shouldn't have to be masters of finance in our discussions on how to improve the team.

We only need owners on the same page.

No, they're also restricted based on the value of the loans that they can get. That's what sent the Rangers into bankruptcy. They weren't exactly spending like the Yankees, but they spent a number of years spending beyond their means, and wound up a hundred million dollars in debt, with no one else willing to lend them the money based on the available equity.

 

If the Sox spent $25 million more than their revenues for a period of about 5 years, they'd be in legitimate trouble.

[sircaffey]

Interesting info. My only point was the owners could at anytime they choose add payroll.

It's no more complicated or simple than that.

They are restricted only by their willingness to do so.

We shouldn't have to be masters of finance in our discussions on how to improve the team.

We only need owners on the same page.

Ok, you discuss in make-believe-land. Others will stay in reality.

[Balta1701]

Ok, you discuss in make-believe-land. Others will stay in reality.

Didn't really need the insult there, sir.

[WilliamTell]

I am super pumped about this signing. I think this is going to be a huge boost for this club. Dunn is going to hit at least 53 homers for this team. Book it.

 

Nope only 52 and not a single one higher. Unless it's an inside the park homer.

[sircaffey]

Nope only 52 and not a single one higher. Unless it's an inside the park homer.

It's nice that Liriano is really the only good LH SP within the division that Dunn will face.

[WilliamTell]

It's nice that Liriano is really the only good LH SP within the division that Dunn will face.

 

Can't wait for Opening Day. Only just under 4 more months haha.

[southsider2k5]

Behind Belle.

 

No doubt. In today's game Belle would have been looking at Pujols/Arod money.

[T R U]

Because having a team in debt would be bad.

 

And it's different for the Sox then compared to the Yankees or Red Sox, because the Cubs happen to also play in this city and absorb most of the city's fanbase.

 

And if they were in the red, which being at a $180M payroll certainly would have them in red, then we'd basically mortgage our future and have to become what the Cubs are; a poor team due to big contracts with high ticket prices to pay those off.

 

lol

 

If we had a $180 million payroll we would more than likely be selling out every game and most likely the AL Central favorite every season..

 

Itd be like being able to sign Dunn and Konerko.. and THEN signing Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee as well.. and then signing the rest of the holes

 

This team could definitely afford that payroll, hell every team can.. these owners didnt make their money from their teams, they have plenty of money.. owning a team is just an extra thing that they are allowed to have because of how much money they have made from their other ventures..

 

Its ridiculous to discuss this anyways because it will never happen, but if it did happen it would work

[justBLAZE]

lol

 

If we had a $180 million payroll we would more than likely be selling out every game and most likely the AL Central favorite every season..

 

Itd be like being able to sign Dunn and Konerko.. and THEN signing Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee as well.. and then signing the rest of the holes

 

This team could definitely afford that payroll, hell every team can.. these owners didnt make their money from their teams, they have plenty of money.. owning a team is just an extra thing that they are allowed to have because of how much money they have made from their other ventures..

 

Its ridiculous to discuss this anyways because it will never happen, but if it did happen it would work

 

If the organization didn't make enough money to run itself and make profit then owners would be losing money and they won't let that happen.

[T R U]

If the organization didn't make enough money to run itself and make profit then owners would be losing money and they won't let that happen.

 

The point being with the quality of stars on the team and the success on the field, the profit would be there..

[chw42]

I think Balta mentioned this before. That model would work for a couple of years and then when the players aren't as good as they were when they signed the deals due to regression, you're going to be stuck with an old team who is overpaid and will underperform. That's where you'll get into trouble.

[iamshack]

I think Balta mentioned this before. That model would work for a couple of years and then when the players aren't as good as they were when they signed the deals due to regression, you're going to be stuck with an old team who is overpaid and will underperform. That's where you'll get into trouble.

And there is no better example than with the Yankees, of all teams. They were operating in the red for several years in the early and mid 2000's because of bad contract after bad contract. If it can happen to them, it can happen to anyone.

[Steve9347]

 

Yeah, I'm a nerd, so what! Jacked one with Dunn on my lunch break.

[bschmaranz]

 

Yeah, I'm a nerd, so what! Jacked one with Dunn on my lunch break.

 

Enjoyed the douche walk after he hit the ball.

[Heads22]

Dunn hitting homers at the Cell just looks right.

[BigSqwert]

I don't mind Dunn being the DH but I can't believe how much the Sox overpaid for him. s***.

 

When you consider that the Sox could get a much better hitter like Vlad Guerrero on a two or three year deal at $ 6-7 mil per or even Thome on a 1 year deal for $ 4-5 mil. and Thome's better at 41 than Dunn is at 31.

 

There's just no way that Dunn as a DH and not even close to being one of the best hitters in baseball or even a valuable player should command $ 14 mil. per year. Pujols will get $ 25 mil. per and if he was only a DH he would get much less and he's three times the hitter.

 

It's just a huge overpayment. And, now how do the Sox convince Konerko to take less money than Dunn when he is clearly a far better baseball player.

 

 

Am I the only one who likes the Linebrink trade better than the Dunn deal

 

Nice!

[BigSqwert]

Funny to go back through this thread and read some of the comments. We had so much optimism back then.