Should the Sox go young?

[Vote4Pedro]

With Kenny not knowing what direction to move in yet what would you like to see the sox go.

[knightni]

If Kong and AJ don't come back, they might as well.

 

But, Ozzie hates managing kids.

[Bridgeport Sox]

Does this mean rebuild mode??

[southsider2k5]

Young? Who do we have that we could even go young with?

[kjshoe04]

I'm not in if by young you mean the Rays model. I really don't want ten years of bad to be good.

[Vote4Pedro]

i think there is a difference between rebuild mode and getting younger talent that can play with the big league club right away

[Vote4Pedro]

Young? Who do we have that we could even go young with?

i believe we'd have to look outside the organization for that. possibly trading a couple starters for some prospects. i think we have too much money committed to go into rebuild mode

[Steve9347]

The Giants just showed us that with an amazing pitching staff you can possibly patch the offense with vets where needed and steal a title.

 

We have an amazing pitching staff. Let's f***ing see what happens.

[sircaffey]

I'm not as optimistic about our staff as others, but we might as well go at least one more year. It'd be nice for Buehrle and Jackson to pitch well to reach type A status so we can offer Jackson arbitration and possible have a gentleman's agreement with Buehrle to decline arbitration once we offer it. That'd certainly help kick start a youth movement if we went that way.

[GREEDY]

If there is grass on the field: play ball.

[spiderman]

The Giants just showed us that with an amazing pitching staff you can possibly patch the offense with vets where needed and steal a title.

 

We have an amazing pitching staff. Let's f***ing see what happens.

 

How do the White Sox have an amazing pitching staff? I'll give you that it's a quality starting rotation with solid depth, but who is the #1 starter amongst this group? I'm not even sure there's a #2 on this staff. Yes, each of these guys is likely to give a quality start when they pitch, and they do tend to keep the team in most ball games, but there's no ace on the staff, and I'm not sure there's a closer either.

[witesoxfan]

How do the White Sox have an amazing pitching staff? I'll give you that it's a quality starting rotation with solid depth, but who is the #1 starter amongst this group? I'm not even sure there's a #2 on this staff. Yes, each of these guys is likely to give a quality start when they pitch, and they do tend to keep the team in most ball games, but there's no ace on the staff, and I'm not sure there's a closer either.

 

The White Sox have, like, 5 #2 starters right now. It may not be a #2 comparable to the likes of Cole Hamels or Matt Cain, but it's a hell of a lot better than Scott Baker.

Edited November 17, 2010 by witesoxfan

[Paint it Black]

I'm not in if by young you mean the Rays model. I really don't want ten years of bad to be good.

 

Why? The Rays are going to be good for a really long time. And your argument is somewhat flawed because they changed their front office direction a few years before 2008. They sucked for so long because they were managed poorly.

[greg775]

I'm not in if by young you mean the Rays model. I really don't want ten years of bad to be good.

 

 

How do the White Sox have an amazing pitching staff? I'll give you that it's a quality starting rotation with solid depth, but who is the #1 starter amongst this group? I'm not even sure there's a #2 on this staff. Yes, each of these guys is likely to give a quality start when they pitch, and they do tend to keep the team in most ball games, but there's no ace on the staff, and I'm not sure there's a closer either.

 

The Royals have been waiting 25 years and are still waiting. But I confess I'd like to get younger. I mean do we really need Juan Pierre? And if Omar is more than a super sub, that is not good as well.

AJ and Paulie are getting up there as well.

 

Our starting staff is not amazing. It's not bad, tho. But it does not amaze anybody.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox have, like, 5 #2 starters right now. It may not be a #2 comparable to the likes of Cole Hamels or Matt Cain, but it's a hell of a lot better than Scott Baker.

 

Except Baker's no longer the #2 for the Twins, he's the 4th guy, pretty much tied with Blackburn and Slowey.

 

Ahead of him are Liriano, Pavano, Duensing and probably Kyle Gibson...although Gibson will probably be in the minors for 2-3 more months.

[joeynach]

Does anyone remember what 1990 did for the white sox organization for years to come. In 1990 we saw three young impact players make their arrivals, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, and Jack Mcdowell and they would help provide the core of the sox team for years to come. I still believe that having a good team starts at the bottom, you need to produce your own young impact players and bring them up. Its the same thing the Phillies have done, though now their young core has gotten a bit older (Rollins, Howard, Hamels, Utley, Werth). If the White Sox are going to be a successful franchise they have to develop talent, get them to the majors, and build around them for years. If that process takes a couple years in the AL Central doghouse than so be it. If I remember correctly the Phillies sucked from like 1998 to around 2003.

[bigruss]

Does anyone remember what 1990 did for the white sox organization for years to come. In 1990 we saw three young impact players make their arrivals, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, and Jack Mcdowell and they would help provide the core of the sox team for years to come. I still believe that having a good team starts at the bottom, you need to produce your own young impact players and bring them up. Its the same thing the Phillies have done, though now their young core has gotten a bit older (Rollins, Howard, Hamels, Utley, Werth). If the White Sox are going to be a successful franchise they have to develop talent, get them to the majors, and build around them for years. If that process takes a couple years in the AL Central doghouse than so be it. If I remember correctly the Phillies sucked from like 1998 to around 2003.

The thing is, although the higher draft picks help, they aren't necessary to build a fantastic farm system. Many of the star players reaching the big leagues are mid first round picks, or later. It's about recognizing that potential and not being afraid to offer overslot money to sign that kid. There's a reason why the Red Sox, Phillies, and other teams continue to draft well even when having no pick higher than #20.

[Dick Allen]

Does anyone remember what 1990 did for the white sox organization for years to come. In 1990 we saw three young impact players make their arrivals, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, and Jack Mcdowell and they would help provide the core of the sox team for years to come. I still believe that having a good team starts at the bottom, you need to produce your own young impact players and bring them up. Its the same thing the Phillies have done, though now their young core has gotten a bit older (Rollins, Howard, Hamels, Utley, Werth). If the White Sox are going to be a successful franchise they have to develop talent, get them to the majors, and build around them for years. If that process takes a couple years in the AL Central doghouse than so be it. If I remember correctly the Phillies sucked from like 1998 to around 2003.

That also took a lot of losing, 4 years, to be in a position for those guys, something that will not be tolerated. Also, losing, even picking #1 in the draft for 4 years isn't going to guarantee you picks that pan out like those 4. There's no question the White Sox have to do a lot better developing players, but to go into full rebuild mode right now eventually won't be popular with anyone. In fact, back to those losing days, those were the last days White Sox owners were given cash calls, and that was with a payroll less than what Bobby Jenks makes.

 

You can trade your current veterans for prospects but that doesn't mean they will pan out. The Marlins have had a pretty good recent history at selecting and developing players, yet look at the haul they receu=ived for Miguel Cabrera. Basically nothing.

 

KW says he doesn't want to be "in between" which is exactly where the Sox have been most of the past 15 seasons. In fact they have used that as a reason to believe they have been such a successful franchise, counting their victory totals against everyone else over that span and stacking up fairly well. I personally don't think "in between" is a bad thing. Its no man's land in the NBA, but in MLB, you can still win and go to the playoffs. You can still draft impact players. Its almost as if KW is setting everyone up with some pain.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

To answer the question in a different way...yes, I think if we trade a starter, Chris Young might make an ideal 6th starter option.

[caulfield12]

To that earlier list of Ventura, Thomas and McDowell, you can also add the nearly-ready Alex Fernandez, who unfortunately had his career ended by injuries just like another young starter of that era, Jason Bere.

 

The White Sox have really suffered with both Brian Anderson and Joe Borchard failing. If both those players make it and become stars, we wouldn't be having this conversation in all likelihood.

[Leonard Zelig]

To that earlier list of Ventura, Thomas and McDowell, you can also add the nearly-ready Alex Fernandez, who unfortunately had his career ended by injuries just like another young starter of that era, Jason Bere.

 

The White Sox have really suffered with both Brian Anderson and Joe Borchard failing. If both those players make it and become stars, we wouldn't be having this conversation in all likelihood.

Add Josh Fields in there too. Would have been so great if they had panned out.

[LittleHurt05]

Why? The Rays are going to be good for a really long time. And your argument is somewhat flawed because they changed their front office direction a few years before 2008. They sucked for so long because they were managed poorly.

 

The change in their front office helped, but so did their draft slot as well. From 1999-2008, they picked first 4 times, picked in the top four 8 times, and were in the top 10 the other two years. Picking that high in the draft makes it much easier to find the top talent.

 

In a 10 year span, they were one of the worst four teams in the league 8 times, and were bottom 10 the other two. Would you really be willing to put up with that? And rememeber there are no guarantees that you become as good as the Rays are now either. Other teams have had had similar draft positions and have not been successful, either due to bad drafting or just flat out bad luck.

[Balta1701]

either due to bad drafting or just flat out bad luck.

And it's worth noting here...even if you throw all the other things in together, the scouting, the going-over-slot, the high or low draft picks, the system development...there is a huge, huge part being played by luck. A lot of the teams we think of as having great systems now didn't have great systems 5 years ago, or if they did, they managed to keep them up in part because they lost extra guys to FA and consequently were helped out with extra picks.

[Paint it Black]

The change in their front office helped, but so did their draft slot as well. From 1999-2008, they picked first 4 times, picked in the top four 8 times, and were in the top 10 the other two years. Picking that high in the draft makes it much easier to find the top talent.

 

In a 10 year span, they were one of the worst four teams in the league 8 times, and were bottom 10 the other two. Would you really be willing to put up with that? And rememeber there are no guarantees that you become as good as the Rays are now either. Other teams have had had similar draft positions and have not been successful, either due to bad drafting or just flat out bad luck.

 

All of these are fair points, but I was sort of assuming that if you go young, you use the Rays business model with an emphasis on defense, sabrmetrics, and actually spending money in the draft. It's also true that teams have had similar draft positions for long periods of time (Pirates, Royals to name a few) but those teams have either went cheap (Pirates) or have made first round picks that were criticized the day they happened (Royals). You don't have to be awful to get good talent in the draft, you need to spend money.

 

I guess my larger point is that I'd like the White Sox to spend money in the draft. If nothing else, they can infuse talent into their system and use it as trade bait because as some have suggested, Ozzie hates young players (I don't agree with this, but I'm just saying...). Teams like the Red Sox have gotten top 10 talent way down on the board because they are willing to go over slot with players. With Reinsdorf and Selig being close friends, I don't see the White Sox giving MLB the finger, but I can only hope.