Godzilla?

[witesoxfan]

This in just after Kenny was quoted saying they are trying to figure out what to do and things might look the same (read no trades) after winter meetings.

 

My point is, don't ever believe what the media are saying about Kenny and his job.

 

If you actually believe that this team will be the same after the winter meetings, then I think you are naive.

 

You guys underestimate CQ's abilities as a fielder. He has a very good throwing arm and is improving in the field

 

When stats and scouting agree that Quentin is terrible, then I think it is probably your judgment that is wrong. Just because he catches standard fly balls does not make him a good fielder.

[justBLAZE]

If you actually believe that this team will be the same after the winter meetings, then I think you are naive.

 

 

 

When stats and scouting agree that Quentin is terrible, then I think it is probably your judgment that is wrong. Just because he catches standard fly balls does not make him a good fielder.

 

Not at all, in fact I believe that most of the stuff Kenny says/leaks to media is well..strategy. I expect him to have a busy offseason.

[Lillian]

After discovering how well the Sox hit right handed pitching last year, despite not having a left handed presence in the lineup, I don't think that they need to acquire 2 left handed hitters.

 

Given the limited financial resources, why not just try to sign Matsui and make him the DH? Put him in the middle of the order, where his ability to drive in runs would be maximized.

It should be noted that he has always been almost equally capable of hitting LHP.

 

Move Rios to RF and Quentin to LF.

 

Now I know that all of you are going to get hysterical over this, but I would like to see De Aza get a shot at CF.

He is a very good outfielder with a decent arm and great speed. He kills RHP, and is probably the closest thing our minor league system has to a Major League ready hitter.

 

As high as some are on Viciedo and Flowers, their production the last two years isn't anywhere near De Aza's.

Over the last two seasons at AAA, appearing in a total of 166 games, which is basically one season's worth of playing time, he has compiled a pretty impressive set of numbers:

42 Doubles, 9 Triples and 13 HR's, while hitting .301 with an OBP of .368. He also drove in 83 runs, while mostly leading off!!!!

That is very good offensive production for CF.

He is a capable base stealer, and would represent a decent threat in the lead off spot.

Although they are not showing his split stats for last season on the Knight's website, I seem to remember that he hit about .340 vs RHP, with an OBP around .420

 

He will only be 27 this Spring, and should just now be coming into his prime.

Wouldn't you like to see what he could do, instead of watching Pierre's "Punch and Judy" hitting? I'd prefer an outfield of Quentin in LF, de Aza in CF, and Rios in RF.

 

Bring back Paulie, DH Matzui, sign either A. J. or Olivo, sign Putz to be the closer, and the Off Season is complete.

 

Line up vs RHP:

 

CF de Aza

3B Vizquel

RF Rios

1B Konerko

DH Matsui

LF Quentin

C A. J.

2B Beckham

SS Ramirez

 

Line up vs LHP

 

CF de Aza

SS Ramirez

RF Rios

1B Konerko

DH Matsui

LF Quentin

C Castro

2B Beckham

3B Morel

 

Teahen is your primary bench player, and LH pinch hitter.

Pierre is a back up outfielder, and pinch runner, unless you can trade him, perhaps with Jenks for something useful.

 

That is a relatively realistic, and modest off season agenda, which would not involve having to issue any big long term contracts, or trade any of the precious few Major League resources.

[fathom]

Line up vs RHP:

 

CF de Aza

3B Vizquel

RF Rios

1B Konerko

DH Matsui

LF Quentin

C A. J.

2B Beckham

SS Ramirez

 

Line up vs LHP

 

CF de Aza

SS Ramirez

RF Rios

1B Konerko

DH Matsui

LF Quentin

C Castro

2B Beckham

3B Morel

 

Holy cow would that team suck. I'm also pretty sure I heard where de Aza is terrible against LHP. I do like the construction of your post in general, just not the players mentioned.

Edited November 20, 2010 by fathom

[Lillian]

Holy cow would that team suck. I'm also pretty sure I heard where de Aza is terrible against LHP. I do like the construction of your post in general, just not the players mentioned.

 

Well, thanks for the kind words regarding the "construction of the post".

Which players, other than de Aza, don't you like?

Aside from de Aza for Pierre, it's basically last year's team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH.

Oh, wait a minute. I guess maybe that does suck.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Lillian

[Balta1701]

Aside from de Aza for Pierre, it's basically last year's team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH.

Oh, wait a minute. I guess maybe that does suck.

Really...an 88 win team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH? That's a 90+ win team.

 

Fix the disaster that was the closer's spot and you're right there.

[Lillian]

Really...an 88 win team with Matsui substituted for Kotsay at DH? That's a 90+ win team.

 

Fix the disaster that was the closer's spot and you're right there.

 

Well, you and "Fathom" don't seem to agree.

I like it, but what do I know?

 

The defense would be very good. You fill the hole that Kotsay represented with a real middle of the order RBI producer from the left side, who can also hit southpaws.

And, you don't have to trade anyone, especially any of the pitchers.

 

Didn't the Giants just reaffirm all of the old saws that extol the virtues of pitching? You know, "Good pitching will stop good hitting", "Pitching is 80% of the game", etc?

 

The Sox would be pretty deep in pitching, providing they could sign Putz, and assuming Peavy can come back by May or early June.

 

Let me say one more thing about the much maligned de Aza: This guy was a top prospect, who was plagued by injuries. He is still young, and seems to have proven that he can play, based upon his last two seasons at AAA. What more does he have to do to demonstrate that he is a viable Major League candidate to play CF? He doesn't need to be a top offensive player at that position, especially leading off.

 

 

[fathom]

He doesn't need to be a top offensive player at that position, especially leading off.

 

WHAT?

[Lillian]

WHAT?

 

What I mean is that, as a lead off hitter, playing CF, de Aza would not have to be a big run producer.

If he could get on base at anywhere near the rate at which he did vs RHP in AAA, and be a stolen base threat, that would be acceptable.

Even if he could come within 50 points of his .420 OBP, and post a .370 OBP vs RHP, wouldn't you be thrilled?

The Sox could always use Pierre vs. LHP, if de Aza struggled too badly in that role. Last year, Juan actually hit southpaws better than right handed pitchers.

 

De Aza is a better fielder than Pierre, although I must admit that Juan surprised many of us last season, with some pretty decent defense.

However, de Aza has a much better arm, and is a better outfielder, who has always been known for his defense. He's a true center fielder.

More importantly, he has extra base pop, which Juan does not possess.

I'm sure that you know Pierre had just 18 doubles in 734 PA's. Don't you agree that is just unbelievably awful for a guy with speed?

Add 3 triples and 1 homer, for a grand total of 22 xtra base hits in 734 PA's.

 

I don't know how you felt last season, but anytime he came up with men on base, I had no expectations of anything good happening.

With capable hitters like Beckham and Alexei at the bottom of the order, the Sox should have a more productive guy leading off, one who can drive them in, or at least advance them.

Pierre is very one dimensional. He can run. But remember, he's getting old, and at 34, could well slow down more than he has already.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Lillian

[fathom]

If you really think Ozzie will not start Pierre next year, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. But yes, I had a bad feeling when Pierre was up with RISP. Just in general, the lineup you suggested seems more like a team that would compete with Royals instead of Twins.

[Lillian]

If you really think Ozzie will not start Pierre next year, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. But yes, I had a bad feeling when Pierre was up with RISP. Just in general, the lineup you suggested seems more like a team that would compete with Royals instead of Twins.

 

You're an astute fan. Given the limitted minor league talent, and financial resources, in the organization, how would you suggest that KW try to compete with the Twins?

[Jerksticks]

I'd replace Pierre with De Aza all day, every day. Too bad it's not up to us.

[fathom]

You're an astute fan. Given the limitted minor league talent, and financial resources, in the organization, how would you suggest that KW try to compete with the Twins?

 

Find a way to unload Buehrle's contract and get some cheap talent for him, and then use the money to make FA upgrades. Move Sale into Buehrle's spot in rotation, and sign Garcia for cheap to replace Peavy at beginning of season.

[SouthsideDon48]

What I mean is that, as a lead off hitter, playing CF, de Aza would not have to be a big run producer.

If he could get on base at anywhere near the rate at which he did vs RHP in AAA, and be a stolen base threat, that would be acceptable.

Even if he could come within 50 points of his .420 OBP, and post a .370 OBP vs RHP, wouldn't you be thrilled?

The Sox could always use Pierre vs. LHP, if de Aza struggled too badly in that role. Juan actually hit southpaws better than right handed pitchers.

 

De Aza is a better fielder than Pierre, although I must admit that Juan surprised many of us last season, with some pretty decent defense.

However, de Aza has a much better arm, and is a better outfielder, who has always been known for his defense. He's a true center fielder.

More importantly, he has extra base pop, which Juan does not possess.

I'm sure that you know Pierre had just 18 doubles in 734 PA's. Don't you agree that is just unbelievably awful for a guy with speed?

Add 3 triples and 1 homer, for a grand total of 22 xtra base hits in 734 PA's.

 

I don't know how you felt last season, but anytime he came up with men on base, I had no expectations of anything good happening.

With capable hitters like Beckham and Alexei at the bottom of the order, the Sox should have a more productive guy leading off, one who can drive them in, or at least advance them.

Pierre is very one dimensional. He can run. But remember, he's getting old, and at 34, could well slow down more than he has already.

I've always been a fan of De Aza ever since he was with Florida. I was really happy the Sox sox got him last year as a minor leaguer, and I was always hoping he'd get a call-up.

 

Hopefully this year De Aza sees time on the major league roster as the 4th or 5th outfielder. I really think he has the tools to help the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Find a way to unload Buehrle's contract and get some cheap talent for him, and then use the money to make FA upgrades. Move Sale into Buehrle's spot in rotation, and sign Garcia for cheap to replace Peavy at beginning of season.

 

In this climate, if you could find a team to take on all his money, they sure aren't going to give you any real talent for him.

[fathom]

In this climate, if you could find a team to take on all his money, they sure aren't going to give you any real talent for him.

 

Let's see what happens to the teams that miss out on Cliff Lee. The contracts being signed so far sure don't look like teams are going to be afraid of big money deals.

[southsider2k5]

Let's see what happens to the teams that miss out on Cliff Lee. The contracts being signed so far sure don't look like teams are going to be afraid of big money deals.

 

Cliff Lee is also in another universe compared to Mark Buehrle.

[Balta1701]

Cliff Lee is also in another universe compared to Mark Buehrle.

Yeah, Buehrle's been much more consistent and reliable through his career.

[joeynach]

I don't know how you felt last season, but anytime he came up with men on base, I had no expectations of anything good happening.

With capable hitters like Beckham and Alexei at the bottom of the order, the Sox should have a more productive guy leading off, one who can drive them in, or at least advance them.

Pierre is very one dimensional. He can run. But remember, he's getting old, and at 34, could well slow down more than he has already.

 

Yeah ozzie never noticed this apparently. I remember time and time again Alexi would lead off with a double, then Ozzie would have beckham bunt him over to 3B to bring up the vaunted Juan Pierre to hit with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. As if Pierre was a big deep play ball threat to manufacture a sac fly RBI there. I was like im WTF is going on here, Pierre can hardly hit the ball to the outfield, let alone deep like the warning track. The only way it worked out is if Pierre somehow got a base hit or made ozzie look like a genius if he somehow got an infield hit or they pulled off a squeeze. Other than that Im like what is going on here, who on earth would sacrifice hitters with power to let Pierre hit with a runner on 3rd base an 1 out. MAKES ZERO SENSE!

[lostfan]

Yeah ozzie never noticed this apparently. I remember time and time again Alexi would lead off with a double, then Ozzie would have beckham bunt him over to 3B to bring up the vaunted Juan Pierre to hit with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. As if Pierre was a big deep play ball threat to manufacture a sac fly RBI there. I was like im WTF is going on here, Pierre can hardly hit the ball to the outfield, let alone deep like the warning track. The only way it worked out is if Pierre somehow got a base hit or made ozzie look like a genius if he somehow got an infield hit or they pulled off a squeeze. Other than that Im like what is going on here, who on earth would sacrifice hitters with power to let Pierre hit with a runner on 3rd base an 1 out. MAKES ZERO SENSE!

I remember this used to INFURIATE me during the season. Those games I'd wonder was Ozzie deliberately trying to piss everyone off?

[Lillian]

Thank you, "Joeynach" and "Lostfan". I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one who felt that way watching Pierre.

At least de Aza has gap power. Those 83 RBI's over his last 166 games at AAA suggest that he's a capable run producer.

 

A guy like Pierre, who can't drive the ball, really needs to walk a lot more, beat out lots of infield hits, including bunts.

The older he gets, the less he's going to be able to do that. He used to average 50 infield hits per season, including over 20 bunt singles.

That's how he managed to hit .327 a couple of times in his youth.

I'm afraid those days are behind him.

[joeynach]

Thank you, "Joeynach" and "Lostfan". I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one who felt that way watching Pierre.

At least de Aza has gap power. Those 83 RBI's over his last 166 games at AAA suggest that he's a capable run producer.

 

A guy like Pierre, who can't drive the ball, really needs to walk a lot more, beat out lots of infield hits, including bunts.

The older he gets, the less he's going to be able to do that. He used to average 50 infield hits per season, including over 20 bunt singles.

That's how he managed to hit .327 a couple of times in his youth.

I'm afraid those days are behind him.

 

Oh I think its safe to assume that Pierre's last year with the sox will be 2011. Any coincidence his and Ozzie's contract both expire after the 2011 season. That being said I believe thats why we all talk about adding long term outfield pieces, like Rasmus, becuase we realize that Pierre is gone after next year. And I think next year you can expect about the same level of production for Pierre, about a .275 hitter with a .330 OBP and 50+ steals. OK, but not great.

Edited November 21, 2010 by joeynach

[witesoxfan]

Oh I think its safe to assume that Pierre's last year with the sox will be 2011. Any coincidence his and Ozzie's contract both expire after the 2011 season.

 

Actually, yes, it's purely coincidental that Pierre's contract and Ozzie's contract run out during the same year. Juan Pierre signed a 5-year deal with the Dodgers after the 2006 season, and he played 3 full seasons there. Ozzie Guillen signed a 3-year contract extension after the 2007 season as a vote of confidence from management. Both Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams have had a fascination with Juan Pierre, so it makes sense that Williams would want to acquire him.

 

That being said I believe thats why we all talk about adding long term outfield pieces, like Rasmus, becuase we realize that Pierre is gone after next year.

 

The White Sox need to add long term ANY pieces, just like any organization does. In the best case scenario, every single position on the diamond would have a legitimate backup option to fall on in case an injury arises, and the White Sox are no difference; they just trade anything they deem as unnecessary.

 

The White Sox are talking about adding Rasmus and Stanton and whoever else has been vaguely mentioned at one time or another because those players are good. I don't think Williams and company are really focused on whether Pierre is coming back but rather the fact that the White Sox need some help offensively.

[joeynach]

t the White Sox need some help offensively.

 

So the good starting pitching plus Aubrey Huff/Juan Uribe/Pat Burrell/Cody Ross offense doesn't it for you?

[witesoxfan]

So the good starting pitching plus Aubrey Huff/Juan Uribe/Pat Burrell/Cody Ross offense doesn't it for you?

 

I don't mind an offense built around a merely solid lineup. You're forgetting the two biggest pieces of that lineup in Andres Torres and Buster Posey. The Giants also had the best defense in the majors, and the talent in that rotation is absolutely ridiculous. If you matched their 1-4 up with the Sox 1-4, the Giants would absolutely blow the Sox away. Their bullpen was also far superior as well.

 

Point blank, if the Sox were to emulate the Giants, they are going to need Peavy to come back healthy and ready to pitch as well as Tim Lincecum, and then they'll need the rest of the rotation to pitch the best seasons of their careers, and then they'll need the bullpen to be lights out, and then they probably only need a hitter or two to be on the same playing field.